Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[LeolaRootStew]

Just now, Ahuvah said:

But the destroying of bbtg is done by the newly empowered UN, that comes first.

...yes

[Ahuvah]

3 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

...yes

And as quoted in the talk by Brother Jackson this is the point the GT will start. Remembering though, there's little or no time between the two, which could make the events seem like one continuous event. On this, time will tell.

 

59 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

Jehovah will put it "into their hearts." *This will occur with suddenness. Yes, then the Great Tribulation will start - a sudden change, not something that happens gradually. 

Context of my quote there is the empowering of the UN ... if you refer back to the talk.

Edited Monday at 09:26 PM by Ahuvah

[Ludwika]

4 minutes ago, Nom Chompsky said:

 What is BtG? I'm drawing a blank.

Babylon the Great 😊

[Ahuvah]

5 minutes ago, Nom Chompsky said:

 What is BtG? I'm drawing a blank.

Babylon the Great

[LeolaRootStew]

Just now, Ahuvah said:

And as quoted in the talk by Brother Jackson this is the point the GT will start. Remembering though, there's little or no time between the two, which could make the events seem like one continuous event. On this, time will tell.

 

 

 

My answer covered this point. I have nothing else to add.

 

33 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Disagree. It is just listing 2 things that will happen suddenly (UN gaining power and the start of the GT by means of BtG being destroyed), it does not conflate them. Those are separate events. Maybe they will clarify with an update.

 

[Shawnster]

4 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

It now begins with the nations relinquishing power to the UN who, in turn, destroys religion.

Which might happen quite close to each other 

[Ahuvah]

1 hour ago, SUNRAY said:

There is an update in the JW Library app  to the Dec. Broadcast of the first part of the AM..does anyone know what the update is?

I saw the update too, it's very difficult to know what was prior, especially if it was a small change.

[Ahuvah]

10 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Which might happen quite close to each other 

I think it will. Side note in research guide on 1 Thessalonians 5:3 says little to no time between the 2 events. Which is why I think it could be perceived as one continuous event. We shall see.

[Bruceq]

   The power and authority given the U.N. will cause [ENABLE] the destruction of false religion and perhaps also be the cause [ENABLING] of peace and security since gaining this power and authority will obviously make them think they have actually done something good such as achieving peace and security by giving dentures to the U.N. [Notice in brother Jacksons talk that the nations would give power and authority to the U.N. “to try and solve the world’s problems”, in other words, to try and bring peace and security. Therefore, when they give that kind of power, they will naturally think they have achieved worldwide peace and security.] So, brother Jackson mentioned rather than look for signs of peace and security or the destruction of false religion [THINGS THEY MAY WANT TO DO] we would notice this event of giving all their power and authority to the U.N. [SOMETHING THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO DO] Of course, peace and security may come shortly before this event but it seems reasonable to expect them to be simultaneous with each other per the reasons mentioned above.

Thus, the progression may be:

1. Give power and authority to the U.N.

2. Think they now have peace and security as a result

3. Destroy false religious organizations

Jehovah brings his day as an act of God. The nations do not decide to bring it, rather Jehovah does!

“Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them.” 1 Thess. 5:3. “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you.” Luke 21:34. [“sudden destruction is to be instantly on them: Paul here indicates that there will be little or no time between the proclamation of “peace and security” and the destruction that will come upon those making that cry. It will be sudden and inescapable. The Greek phrase contains two terms (rendered “sudden” and “be instantly on”) to emphasize the striking suddenness with which the destruction will come. A similar combination of terms appears at Lu 21:34, where the coming of Jehovah’s day is described.”]

    Also, Jackson [from 2024 AM] mentioned very clearly the giving of power to U.N. is an ACT of God. So, it seems the consequence of this act would be what the nations would do. Like Jehovah putting hooks in their jaws. Jehovah will start the first domino then things will transpire quickly thereafter. 

 

 

 

[Áine]

I watched this today….

He doesn’t beat around the bush and I had forgotten how good it is and it’s well worth watching again in order to get things straight in your minds

 

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwb-120_10_VIDEO

[Ahuvah]

16 minutes ago, Áine said:

I watched this today….

He doesn’t beat around the bush and I had forgotten how good it is and it’s well worth watching again in order to get things straight in your minds

 

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwb-120_10_VIDEO

Yes I think one needs to watch it 2-3 times to get everything.

[Richie]

5 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

But it's the UN that removes religion, not the nations. Which is why I was confused,

Ten horns of the wild beast mean ten kings. While the beast itself is the UN. The ten horns which are the kings of world also the member states of the UN will give their power and authority to the UN to fulfill Jehovah's judgment to the harlot. 

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Doug said:

, to gather them together (…) Rev.16:13

This seems to me like giving their power to UN. Their one thought

Am I thinking right?

[Richie]

11 hours ago, Sofia said:

exactly 

In 2011, when Syria went into turmoil and Russia was so supportive to Assad I made the wild guess since then that the next KOTN would be Russia. Because, there was something special to Syria aside from being the 1st KOTN. 

[Dustparticle]

3 minutes ago, Sofia said:

This seems to me like giving their power to UN. Their one thought

Am I thinking right?

 Them or not, the false prophet in that verse is Anglo-American Power. It will have a major role at Armageddon. 

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

Yes currently, but when Jehovah empowers them they will receive authority from ALL nations, not just the ones that are currently part of the UN.

All nations are represented in UN. 193 nations right now and then

[Ahuvah]

36 minutes ago, Sofia said:

All nations are represented in UN. 193 nations right now and then

So who do you think Brother Jackson means when he said it doesn't just include the nations from the seven powers, but all the nations? I'll get wording in a sec.

 

Here we go my dear sis: 

"Well, there will come a time when all political powers on earth, which includes many who have never been part of the seven world powers, they will see that they need to collectively pool their power by giving it to the United Nations to try and solve some of the problems of the world."

 

This is fun, it's like we are all doing a huge group puzzle ... although the tiny details don't matter, the big picture does.

Edited Tuesday at 12:22 AM by Ahuvah

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

Yes currently, but when Jehovah empowers them they will receive authority from ALL nations, not just the ones that are currently part of the UN.

All the nations are part of the UN. There aren't any nations that are not UN members. 

[Shawnster]

9 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

So who do you think Brother Jackson means when he said it doesn't just include the nations from the seven powers, but all the nations? I'll get wording in a sec.

Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Anglo-America. 

 

Those 10 horns represent all the nations of the world. Many of those nations such as Chad, Vietnam, Kuwait, Nicaragua, etc... were never part of, nor did they come from any of those 7 historic world powers. 

[Ahuvah]

5 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

All the nations are part of the UN. There aren't any nations that are not UN members. 

"All of the 193 sovereign states have an equal amount of power and representation within the UN General Assembly. For a nation to be admitted into the UN, then the UN Security Council must sit and make a recommendation based on the vote. Should the vote have a majority in the Security Council, then the General Assembly votes to decide whether a nation has satisfied all the guidelines defined in the UN Charter." 

 

At  the moment there are two observer states: Holy See/Vatican City and Palestine.  There are other oversees territories or dependancies that are seen as some members as independent countries, but do not have that status which can be only given by the UN. 

So, depending on who you talk to there could be 197 or more countries. 

[Ahuvah]

5 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Anglo-America. 

 

Those 10 horns represent all the nations of the world. Many of those nations such as Chad, Vietnam, Kuwait, Nicaragua, etc... were never part of, nor did they come from any of those 7 historic world powers. 

Aah so he's speaking below that now the ten kings are those who are about to receive the authority for one hour? Is that the new adjustment? It seems verses 12 and 13, have been adjusted because of the clarification in verse 17.

 

 

"Now, this adjustment in our understanding also means we have to adjust our understanding of verses 12 and 13. So, if you are in Revelation 17, please, let's look at verses 12 and 13: "The ten horns that you saw, mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast."

 

So, up to now, we've assumed, those "ten kings" which represent all the political powers and governments in the world, at this moment that they did this during the 'last days' by supporting, first of all  The League of Nations and then the United Nations. 

But now, what do we understand this to be? Seeing we understand verse 17? Well, there will come a time when all political powers on earth, which includes many who have never been part of the seven world powers, they will see that they need to collectively pool their power by giving it to the United Nations to try and solve some of the problems of the world. And they will rule, notice what does it say? For "one hour" -  just a short period of time. So, this newly empowered United Nations, from that time on, will rule collectively for a short time, but it will enable them to destroy false religion and fight against Jesus and Jehovah’s people. Now, isn't that exciting?"

[Percy]

53 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

All the nations are part of the UN. There aren't any nations that are not UN members. 

There might be a few. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-not-in-the-un 

I suppose it is debatable, if these countries are actually part of a bigger country: ie. Taiwan part of China, Falklands part of Britain, etc.

[Sofia]

1 hour ago, Ahuvah said:

political powers on earth, which includes many who have never been part of the seven world powers

All powers means all 193 countries 

not just the 7 powers represented by the 7 heads of the scarlet beast.

10 kings mean the TOTAL (10=full earthly number) or ALL nations included in UN.

even number 7 means fullness or totality 

 

So far the number is 193

if … meanwhile Palestine gains international recognition it may become the 194th nation

so far is merely an observer like the Vatican 

 

John wrote that the beast comes from the 7 kings ( world powers) and it’s itself an 8th king ( it will be in the future) and shall be destroyed. 
UN has nations that once belonged to the 7 powers ( Egypt Assyria Babylon Medo-Pérsia Greece Rome Anglo American) and more of course. all nations are represented in there.

 

curious to watch the unfold of all this 🤗

[Ahuvah]

Me too. Brothers have said expect more changes. So hanging tight.

[LeolaRootStew]

Quote

Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

 

I have a side point I'd like to address. From what I understand, it says that the one who makes the proclamation is the one who will be destroyed. If that's true, and we know that religion will be destroyed, then shouldn't we expect the ccry of P&S to come from religion? Maybe I have an old understanding, so please correct me. Does this scripture imply that "they" and "them" are the same group or a different group?