Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Ahuvah]

48 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

Maybe because there is an exclamation point at the end of the sentence.  It has to be something different than other statements.

This was the reasoning used to think it may be a proclamation more than  just talking about it, but since it's often described as a veneer it doesn't have to be true.

[Ahuvah]

4 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

I think it only makes sense for the cry to happen after the UN gets power (sure, I could be wrong). The GB said they will likely give the UN power to solve some sort of problem. It wouldn't make much sense to declare peace before the solution to a problem, right? 

 

 

I do too

[Dolce vita]

1 hour ago, Áine said:

Just as a point of interest can you find a scripture where it says that it will be a cry of peace and security…. Because as far as I can see and nothing has changed regarding this in the previous 50 years

 It doesn’t say a ‘cry or shout’ instead it says ‘saying’ … I’ve always thought that there is a huge different between the two because if we look at that prophecy using the word it says in the scriptures then it could be interpreted very differently

Perhaps the word 'cry' here is induced by the global, powerful and exceptional character of the proclamation, a proclamation that will shock minds by its scope and its implication. The term suggests that no one will escape the news announced. 

[Cushi]

5 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

I think it only makes sense for the cry to happen after the UN gets power (sure, I could be wrong). The GB said they will likely give the UN power to solve some sort of problem. It wouldn't make much sense to declare peace before the solution to a problem, right? 

This is the same thing I thought when I heard brother Jackson’s talk. If the nations will be saying peace and security shortly before Babylon the Great’s destruction, and the nations also give their power to the UN shortly before that destruction, then it makes sense that the proclamation may happen after the nations relinquish power. This makes even more sense when you take into consideration that UN representatives state that one of the main purposes of the UN is to maintain peace. So, it would make sense that the UN will be the main ones saying this when they get unprecedented powers.

[Sofia]

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I think it's old verbage. The Bible seems to be translated "say" for all that time, though. Cry is a synonym for "say" and "proclaim", so I don't think it changes the meaning, but I agree that it changes the visual for me. "Say" peace seems less loud, whereas "cry" seems loud, or even desperate.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1986725?q=cry+peace&p=par

*** w86 10/1 p. 18 par. 9 Peace From God—When? ***
9 “Peace and security!” Paul here alerts us to the proclamation that will be heard at the climax of Christ’s “presence.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) Will we soon hear that cry? Where could such a call for the world’s peace and security originate? Obviously not from among Christ’s followers, for Jesus stated that neither they nor his Kingdom are “part of the world.” (John 15:19; 17:14, 16; 18:36) Those who herald forth this cry must therefore be worldlings who are opposed to the incoming Kingdom of God. They are part of the world that ‘lies in the power of the wicked one,’ Satan the Devil. (1 John 5:19) Like the political and religious leaders of Jeremiah’s day, these will speak “the vision of their own heart,” saying, “Peace is what you people will come to have,” wrongly contending that such peace is from God. How false their claim will prove to be!—Jeremiah 23:16, 17, 19, 20.

 

A chain of events leads up to this cry of “Peace and security!”

  Reveal hidden contents

*** w54 6/15 pp. 380-381 par. 16 Maintaining the Way of Favor ***
16 How shall we know when the time of the revelation of Jesus Christ has arrived and has begun? Notice the sign given to the Thessalonians by Paul in his letter quoted from in the preceding paragraph. When they are saying, “Peace and security!” the time has arrived. And how will this be so? Persecution of those taken along into God’s favor is certain to continue and increase at the hands of those left desolate of God’s presence. (Rev. 12:17; 13:7) These abandoned ones, at Satan’s instigation, will muster all their forces in final all-out war against Jehovah’s enthroned King and will seek to wipe out the new nation of spiritual Israel that Christ is building as a part of the new world. It might be they will make it appear they have accomplished their purpose and for this reason cry, “Peace and security!” Then it is that Christ reveals himself to the nations in all the majesty and power of his great invisible presence.—Ezek. 38:18, 19, 21-23.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1954448&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=20

 

Some translations actually say “when they are feeling safe and secure”.

@Áine 

this doesn’t imply a shout or cry

[Sackedbysapp]

1 hour ago, cme said:

Matt: 24:44 On this account, you too proves yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.

 

If we read all of Matthew 24, Jesus admonishes his disciples to prove themselves ready.  We do not want to be distracted with all the noise in the world.  Let's look beyond the noise.   It could make us anxious, distract us from what really is important.  Kingdom.   Remember, Satan is a Master at what he does.  Matt:24:43  "if the householder had known in what watch...., he would have kept awake.......He would have payed attention to the situation on hand and kept busy with his own chores.  Making sure that when his master arrived everything was in its place.

 

As far as the time period we need not look further, we are in it.  However, trying to piece the puzzle together as to who, what, when and where is above our pay grade. 

 

Jehovah knows what He is doing.

 

 

 

 

Are you sure we are? If 5 years go by than what?

[cme]

3 minutes ago, Sackedbysapp said:

Are you sure we are? If 5 years go by than what?

Does it matter?  Are you in it for a date or, do you truly love Jehovah?  There's a Watchtower coming soon that we will be studying.

 

No one on this planet deserves to live.  This is an undeserved kindness from Jehovah.  It doesn't matter if we are of the anointed, other sheep, position of authority or otherwise.  We do not deserve to live neither can we earn it. We are all sinners.  It is only through faith a special quality that not everyone has and that will make us righteous before Jehovah that will get us through this system and into the New World to come.

 

So, being that we do not deserve this gift but, Jehovah has given us this free ticket to Paradise at a very large cost to himself, let's continue to wait and appreciate the hope of everlasting life.

[Áine]

26 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Some translations actually say “when they are feeling safe and secure”.

@Áine 

this doesn’t imply a shout or cry

Yes I think we just really have to wait and see how things play out…. But looking at the world right now I honestly don’t think that we will have very long to wait at all 🥰

[Dark King]

32 minutes ago, Cushi said:

This is the same thing I thought when I heard brother Jackson’s talk. If the nations will be saying peace and security shortly before Babylon the Great’s destruction, and the nations also give their power to the UN shortly before that destruction, then it makes sense that the proclamation may happen after the nations relinquish power. This makes even more sense when you take into consideration that UN representatives state that one of the main purposes of the UN is to maintain peace. So, it would make sense that the UN will be the main ones saying this when they get unprecedented powers.

He's a great video that breaks down The whole sequence of events.

 

 

Gerrit Lösch: Jehovah’s Day Is Coming as a Thief (1 Thess. 5:2, 3)

 

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwbmw_201504_2_VIDEO

 

[Áine]

4 minutes ago, Dark King said:

He's a great video that breaks down The whole sequence of events.

 

 

Gerrit Lösch: Jehovah’s Day Is Coming as a Thief (1 Thess. 5:2, 3)

 

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwbmw_201504_2_VIDEO

 

Thank you for that link, I also have a talk of his given a good few years ago which is still very good and I think uses the same outline more or less…

[ChrisW]

42 minutes ago, Sackedbysapp said:

Are you sure we are? If 5 years go by than what?

Unfortunately, that's the kinda statement my son would make who is no longer a witness.  If 5 years go by then we are 5 years closer. Keeping our faith strong is a challenge but we have all the evidence that

1. There is a creator

2. The Bible is the means he has chosen to communicate with his people

5. He's sent his son as a ransom

3. Prophecies have/are being fulfilled 

4. We are living in the time of the end 

5. Jehovah has a Faithful and Discreet Slave that keeps us informed and encouraged

 

If we don't think any of those things are true. Where will we be as individuals, in 5 years. I think that's the question.

[Ahuvah]

Our dedication is for life. My home is in the New World, in my heart and thoughts I am through Hebrews 11:1 and the process of transmutation already living there. It matters not whether it comes tomorrow or 5 or 10 years ... I'm already home ... the physical just needs to catch up.

 

That being said ... the electricity is in the air makes my hair stand on end,  our war is a spiritual one ... we don't NEED physical markers to feel the hustle and bustle that is happening in the spiritual realm. Things are readying themselves and there's a hurrying of it so it will be right on time.

 

We are in that time. We are almost home in a physical sense. Keep enduring dear ones.

[Old]

3 hours ago, ChrisW said:

Maybe because there is an exclamation point at the end of the sentence.  It has to be something different than other statements.

Is there a punctuation mark in the original Greek?

[Ahuvah]

1 minute ago, Old said:

Is there a punctuation mark in the original Greek?

I don't believe there was Brother Jerry, the exclamation mark was added to convey better the meaning of the original Greek, as English is woefully inadequate sometimes.

 

Might be wrong though. 

[ChrisW]

25 minutes ago, Old said:

Is there a punctuation mark in the original Greek?

I wouldn't know. I know there's one in the bible I read.

[trottigy]

3 hours ago, ChrisW said:

 If 5 years go by then we are 5 years closer.

 

And there it is! I love that answer.