Gunman opens fire in German city of Hamburg - Brothers and Sisters Wounded

[futurepromise]

10 hours ago, Bluebell said:

something very encouraging....although very sad....

 

"Instead of the usual meeting, a special gathering took place today at 5 pm in Hamburg directly from Selters via Zoom, on the occasion of the bad events that happened.

There were 582 windows. Looking into the sad faces was very hard.

Manfred Steffensdorfer gave a nice talk.

We should think as much as possible about the new world and imagine paradise again and again.

Nor should we stop praying, no matter how bad we feel!

Jehovah will take matters into his own hands in his time. Let's fight and don't give up.

After that, we looked at the Watchtower, it was very emotional because of the profound comments.

A brother began to cry while reading the Bible text.

One sister said, "I'm sure we're all angry when something like this happens. That's human. However, anger is not good for us. Therefore, we should fight against anger. It is Jehovah who takes it in his hands."

and a brother said, "We are in a constant metamorphosis from caterpillar to butterfly.

Satan wants to rip our wings out. That's why we always have to redesign them, i.e. let the wings grow again and again."

Another brother commented directly from the hospital. I think that was the husband of the shot sister who lost  her baby (but I'm not 100% sure)
Afterwards there were a few closing words by Werner Rudkte. Our heart is unique and everyone feels differently. Only Jehovah can judge our pain, no man. Proverbs 14:10.

Let us therefore focus our thoughts on Jehovah!
The grief may remain until the new world arrives. Therefore, we need to discuss our feelings with Jehovah.

The devil wants to shake us and make us doubt. Every discouragement comes from the devil.

Let us be encouraged, for all encouragement comes from Jehovah.

Jehovah is stronger than the devil!
Jehovah helps to endure something almost impossible. "

I appreciate you sharing this, thank you.

[hatcheckgirl]

From the Holocaust organisation Arnold-Liebster-Foundation

https://alst.org/aktuelles/gemeinsame-stellungnahme-amoktat-in-hamburg-verlangt-sorgfalt-der-berichterstattung-und-solidaritaet-mit-den-angegriffenen-zeugen-jehovas/

 

Unofficial English translation of the Arnold-Liebster-Foundation Statement

‘We stand with the Jehovah’s Witnesses who were brutally attacked in their community in Hamburg on the evening of March 9, 2023. We express our empathy for the wounded and sincere condolences for the mother of the murdered unborn child and the families and friends of those killed. We honor the memory of the seven people whose precious lives were cruelly cut short that night.

The victims were part of a Christian community, which has been violently attacked and repeatedly persecuted throughout history, including at present. Jehovah’s Witnesses were the first religious community banned by the National Socialists. The National Socialists murdered about 1,800 Jehovah’s Witnesses because they refused military service and the Führer cult, used their faith to resist the terror of dictatorship, and helped other victims of persecution. Even under communist tyranny in the GDR and Eastern Europe, hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses died, and thousands were imprisoned. In 1994, 400 Jehovah’s Witnesses were murdered in Rwanda because they opposed the genocide. In the Russian Federation, Jehovah’s Witnesses are being persecuted, disenfranchised, and mistreated. More than 100 are in prisons and penal camps.

Politics, society, and the media in Germany have a historical responsibility toward Jehovah’s Witnesses. Following the murder of seven German citizens, prejudices cultivated for decades must not be unleashed. The media, especially, should exercise due diligence. As with other minorities, the threshold of malice, hatred, and incitement is quickly crossed over into both social media networks and, sometimes, even over into the comments made by the respectable associated press.

The fact is that these prejudices have been refuted through solid research and in legal case law. The Federal Constitutional Court has granted Jehovah’s Witnesses the status of a public corporation. The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly condemned discrimination against Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The fact is that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a peaceful, non-violent Christian community that has practiced racial equality for decades.

The fact is that many of the prejudices directed against Jehovah’s Witnesses, a religious community consisting of more than eight million adherents worldwide and almost 200,000 believers in Germany, have been shaped by antipluralist thinking and nationalistic ideologies. Ethnic, National Socialist, and church circles have justified persecution and violence against them. In the Federal Republic of Germany, too, for decades, the view of this Christian community was dominated by ‘experts’ who were by no means impartial and whose own churches had not offered resistance to National Socialism comparable to that of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The fact is that assassins often look for victims from their own background - for example, from their (former) schools. It is unacceptable to speculate by connecting the religious community and the offender's motives. The victims of a crime cannot and must not be criticized for explaining away the abusive actions of a criminal. It is out of the question to misuse this terrible crime as an occasion for prejudiced reporting or making derogatory comments about Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is necessary to await the outcome of the investigation to preserve the dignity of the victims of this crime.

We call on all citizens, especially politicians, and the media, to live up to Germany’s historic responsibility towards Jehovah’s Witnesses and to show solidarity with this Christian community today.

Let us all confront every prejudice, every hatred, every incitement. If we defend human dignity, we defend the dignity of every individual Jehovah’s Witness.’

[Sheep]

2 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

From the Holocaust organisation Arnold-Liebster-Foundation

https://alst.org/aktuelles/gemeinsame-stellungnahme-amoktat-in-hamburg-verlangt-sorgfalt-der-berichterstattung-und-solidaritaet-mit-den-angegriffenen-zeugen-jehovas/

 

Unofficial English translation of the Arnold-Liebster-Foundation Statement

 

Thank you, Lucy, for posting this.

[hatcheckgirl]

4 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

From the Holocaust organisation Arnold-Liebster-Foundation

https://alst.org/aktuelles/gemeinsame-stellungnahme-amoktat-in-hamburg-verlangt-sorgfalt-der-berichterstattung-und-solidaritaet-mit-den-angegriffenen-zeugen-jehovas/

 

Unofficial English translation of the Arnold-Liebster-Foundation Statement

‘We stand with the Jehovah’s Witnesses who were brutally attacked in their community in Hamburg on the evening of March 9, 2023. We express our empathy for the wounded and sincere condolences for the mother of the murdered unborn child and the families and friends of those killed. We honor the memory of the seven people whose precious lives were cruelly cut short that night.

The victims were part of a Christian community, which has been violently attacked and repeatedly persecuted throughout history, including at present. Jehovah’s Witnesses were the first religious community banned by the National Socialists. The National Socialists murdered about 1,800 Jehovah’s Witnesses because they refused military service and the Führer cult, used their faith to resist the terror of dictatorship, and helped other victims of persecution. Even under communist tyranny in the GDR and Eastern Europe, hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses died, and thousands were imprisoned. In 1994, 400 Jehovah’s Witnesses were murdered in Rwanda because they opposed the genocide. In the Russian Federation, Jehovah’s Witnesses are being persecuted, disenfranchised, and mistreated. More than 100 are in prisons and penal camps.

Politics, society, and the media in Germany have a historical responsibility toward Jehovah’s Witnesses. Following the murder of seven German citizens, prejudices cultivated for decades must not be unleashed. The media, especially, should exercise due diligence. As with other minorities, the threshold of malice, hatred, and incitement is quickly crossed over into both social media networks and, sometimes, even over into the comments made by the respectable associated press.

The fact is that these prejudices have been refuted through solid research and in legal case law. The Federal Constitutional Court has granted Jehovah’s Witnesses the status of a public corporation. The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly condemned discrimination against Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The fact is that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a peaceful, non-violent Christian community that has practiced racial equality for decades.

The fact is that many of the prejudices directed against Jehovah’s Witnesses, a religious community consisting of more than eight million adherents worldwide and almost 200,000 believers in Germany, have been shaped by antipluralist thinking and nationalistic ideologies. Ethnic, National Socialist, and church circles have justified persecution and violence against them. In the Federal Republic of Germany, too, for decades, the view of this Christian community was dominated by ‘experts’ who were by no means impartial and whose own churches had not offered resistance to National Socialism comparable to that of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The fact is that assassins often look for victims from their own background - for example, from their (former) schools. It is unacceptable to speculate by connecting the religious community and the offender's motives. The victims of a crime cannot and must not be criticized for explaining away the abusive actions of a criminal. It is out of the question to misuse this terrible crime as an occasion for prejudiced reporting or making derogatory comments about Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is necessary to await the outcome of the investigation to preserve the dignity of the victims of this crime.

We call on all citizens, especially politicians, and the media, to live up to Germany’s historic responsibility towards Jehovah’s Witnesses and to show solidarity with this Christian community today.

Let us all confront every prejudice, every hatred, every incitement. If we defend human dignity, we defend the dignity of every individual Jehovah’s Witness.’

Forgot to add this info came from a Polish brother who does JWtours in Berlin, both on zoom and in person. He’s a historian and mentions how our family in Germany are shocked but determined. 
 

https://historyofjw.tours/statement_hamburg.html

[Midwest-US]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:22 AM, Jay D said:

I know where this post is coming from, but please approach the matter with a bit more respect, I know a family that's been affected and the issue of blood is the last thing on their minds. First and foremost is the spiritual and emotional support they need, so perhaps your post should have been how timely our midweek meeting was in regards our organization's response to emergencies and disasters.  Remember the video about natural disasters? That was far more timely in this situation. Please pray for our dear hurt brothers and sisters. ❤️

 

Actually, I was referring to those that were injured and taken to the hospital. I was thinking how it would be fresh on their minds as they may have had to grapple with that situation suddenly.

[Amygdala]

I have been asked recently, so in case someone ask questions about disfellowshipping, the FAQ section of our website can help explain this and other related topics to the subject.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

 

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/resign/

 

It's good to help people find out and clarify the truth about it, vs. what they hear or read online.🤨

[Skye]

https://www.zeit.de/hamburg/2023-03/elbvertiefung-13-03-2023
 

Translated on the go with DeepL for iOS.

Italics mine.

Dear Reader,

Every Thursday and Sunday evening the Winterhude congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is scheduled to worship. So it was yesterday evening. 

It was the first meeting - as the believers call their gatherings - since a former member attacked the congregation at its center in Alsterdorf with a gun on Thursday. He killed seven people, including an unborn child, seriously injured eight others, then shot himself. What we know about the perpetrator, you can read below in the "Topic of the day". There was no new information on the condition of the injured over the weekend, according to police; four of them were still in a life-threatening condition.

My colleague Tom Kroll was allowed to join the online service yesterday. He is a Christian himself, but had no contact with Jehovah's Witnesses until now. "The Winterhude congregation is a young and not very large congregation," he says. "Before the attack, there were 64 active members, of whom six are now dead." Yesterday, however, the meeting was probably better attended than ever before. "At the peak, there were almost 600 people," Kroll says, "people from the U.S. and Brazil, some of whom didn't understand a word of German but wanted to express their sympathy."

He says it was hard not to think permanently about the crime during the course of the three-hour gathering. It was already like that at the beginning, he said, when those present each sang the song "My father, my God and friend" in front of the webcam:

"Suffering makes life hard today / 
Often one floats in a thousand dangers /
But every day I find comfort /
Have not lived in vain."
 

Song #30

“Life in this world can be hard /

Life in this world can bring tears and pain /

Still ev’ry day I will say, /

“My life is not in vain.”

The sermon, he said, told of biblical figures such as Jeremiah, Jesus and Paul and how their trust in God helped them in difficult times. In the Bible study that followed, many of the guests then spoke up and shared their own sorrowful experiences. Tom Kroll tells of an event that was trusting and personal despite the physical distance and the large number of participants.

"The Witnesses call each other brothers and sisters," he says, "in faith and togetherness lies a large part of their identity. Community life gives them support, so it's important to them that it can continue now and that no one is left alone with their grief."

Get well into the new week,
Yours, Oskar Piegsa

[PGgenius]

Idont say more,I'm afraid this is just another step to denying religions

[Skye]

The story at the link below (translated from German to English using Google) attempts to answer this question: 

 

Quote

A killing spree in a house of prayer - whether church, synagogue or mosque - resonates particularly strongly. Why is it different when Jehovah's Witnesses are the victims?

 

https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/meinung/nach-dem-anschlag-von-hamburg-alsterdorf-als-ware-nichts-gewesen-9493109.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 

[Skye]

1 minute ago, Skye said:

Why is it different when Jehovah's Witnesses are the victims?

John 17!

 

But more important, Jesus said: “20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word…….23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me.”

 

[More4me2do]

Out of the mouth of Babes in Ghana comes an encouragement for our brothers and sisters in Hamburg.

Edited March 14, 2023 by More4me2do

[Luisabola]

8 minutes ago, More4me2do said:

Out of the mouth of Babes in Ghana comes an encouragement for our brothers and sisters in Hamburg.

 

This is amazing. They all go to the same school? 

[Amygdala]

Please keep praying for the ones in the hospitals, dear friends. Also for our dear brothers who are working in Hamburg with all the arrangements. One sister is in critical condition. 🙏

[More4me2do]

Just got the background of the singing at this school in Ghana. A Ghanaian sister who lives in Hamburg has two Kindergartens in Hamburg. While the shooting took place she was in Ghana and to comfort the friends, who she knows well in Hamburg, she arranged for this school in Ghana to record this song. The school is attended by orphans as well as a fair amount of witness children, and because it is so encouraging it quickly makes the rounds.

 

This is the full version of 2:41 minutes

[New World Explorer]

Could someone send me above video on WhatsApp? Please dm me if you can. It would be highly appreciated 😊Thank you 

[More4me2do]

Connect your phone to your PC and then download it OR since it is only 17MB you can email it as the limit is 20MB

[Hope]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:46 PM, Woanders said:

 

Getting correct info or details can help allay incorrect responses in the ministry, and also reassure those brothers in the affected area, or all of Germany that this was an isolated incident due to the circumstances. It also shows how well the authorities and the brothers are supporting each other, including continuing in spiritual activities. It’s a slap back to Satan that he hasn’t slowed down our activities.

 

Keep in mind that grieving and healing for everyone is different, especially in such tragic times. What some would rather not know is different to others who may find it helpful.

 

That's definitely the case for me.  The more I know about a situation, the better I feel, the better I can cope.  Lack of detail distresses me... it may not be the best mental attitude to have, but that's how I process.

 

If anyone does not want to hear more, no details, no "spoilers" (as in the case of new info from the Slave/Assemblies/ Conventions, etc.), they may simply choose not to indulge in the discussion. 

 

I find it a bit presumptuous, however, when some want EVERYONE to stop talking simply because *they* don't like the topic.    Please - go read something else, eh?

[Hope]

4 hours ago, Skye said:

The story at the link below (translated from German to English using Google) attempts to answer this question: 

 

 

https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/meinung/nach-dem-anschlag-von-hamburg-alsterdorf-als-ware-nichts-gewesen-9493109.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 

Interesting article.  This last paragraph, though -- 

 

Quote

Breitscheidplatz in Berlin, Strasbourg, Pittsburgh, Christchurch: It is unlikely that Alsterdorf will be burned into the collective memory of the killing spree like these places. With a few exceptions, the Jehovah's Witnesses lack a lobby. Simply being believers who have been wronged is apparently not enough for social compassion.

 

The world thinks we're "nobodies"... even Gog of Magog will have a go. But our God is powerful.  He will never forget us! 

[New World Explorer]

7 hours ago, More4me2do said:

Connect your phone to your PC and then download it OR since it is only 17MB you can email it as the limit is 20MB

Yes, got it - thanks ☺️

[jayrtom]

The video for today's text, from this thread, 

 

 

fits perfectly in this situation

 

Online Video Library | JW.ORG Videos English

 

[jayrtom]

16 hours ago, Skye said:

He says it was hard not to think permanently about the crime during the course of the three-hour gathering. It was already like that at the beginning, he said, when those present each sang the song "My father, my God and friend" in front of the webcam:

"Suffering makes life hard today / 
Often one floats in a thousand dangers /
But every day I find comfort /
Have not lived in vain."
 

Song #30

“Life in this world can be hard /

Life in this world can bring tears and pain /

Still ev’ry day I will say, /

“My life is not in vain.”

 

I wonder where this part came from... It's not from the song 🤔

 

 

[AH173]

10 hours ago, More4me2do said:

Connect your phone to your PC and then download it OR since it is only 17MB you can email it as the limit is 20MB

Thanks for sharing. It's amazing. 

[James the Less]

36 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

 

I wonder where this part came from... It's not from the song 🤔

 

 

This is how the lyrics of the first verse of song number 30 in German translate back into English. When translating songs, our brothers try and convey the thought and feeling rather than the English words. So each Kingdom song in other languages is a little, or sometimes a lot, different to the English original.

[jayrtom]

6 minutes ago, James the Less said:

This is how the lyrics of the first verse of song number 30 in German translate back into English. When translating songs, our brothers try and convey the thought and feeling rather than the English words. So each Kingdom song in other languages is a little, or sometimes a lot, different to the English original.

Thanks! Didn't understand that the green part was added by the poster 👍

[Violin]

13 hours ago, Hope said:

 

That's definitely the case for me.  The more I know about a situation, the better I feel, the better I can cope.  Lack of detail distresses me... it may not be the best mental attitude to have, but that's how I process.

 

If anyone does not want to hear more, no details, no "spoilers" (as in the case of new info from the Slave/Assemblies/ Conventions, etc.), they may simply choose not to indulge in the discussion. 

 

I find it a bit presumptuous, however, when some want EVERYONE to stop talking simply because *they* don't like the topic.    Please - go read something else, eh?

There is a book called the Whole Brain child and it discusses how talking through and replaying a traumatic or upsetting event helps children process and move on, rather than trying to act like everything is fine which can cause further trauma.