140 years!

[Dannie]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:58 AM, Parale said:

 

Disappeared, and not mentioned again.

 

He was 'last' mentioned in the Watchtower 1 December 1984 when he handed out the diplomas for the Gilead graduation in September 1984, a month before the Centennial Annual Meeting.

 

I believe he died in 1988.

• Kingdom Ministry—1980 
  •  
   

Edited December 19, 2023 by Dannie

[Dannie]

• Kingdom Ministry—1980 
  •  
  km 8/80 p. 2   (5th Bullet Point) This is a notification that Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980.

[dove]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:34 AM, Parale said:

 

 

I believe that the 1984 Centennial event at the Three Rivers Stadium was the last known public appearance of Leo Greenlees as a member of the Governing Body, before he disappeared.

 

I like seeing the Programs with the brothers names..GB and others. Now we have them up close on JW Broadcasting.

[Parale]

1 hour ago, Dannie said:

On 10/22/2023 at 1:58 PM, Parale said:

Disappeared, and not mentioned again.

 

He was 'last' mentioned in the Watchtower 1 December 1984 when he handed out the diplomas for the Gilead graduation in September 1984, a month before the Centennial Annual Meeting.

 

I believe he died in 1988.

• Kingdom Ministry—1980 

 

1 hour ago, Dannie said:

Kingdom Ministry—1980 

km 8/80 p. 2   (5th Bullet Point) This is a notification that Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980.

 

Yes, the Governing Body have provided us with an exact date when both Ray Franz and Anthony Morris left the Governing Body - 22 May 1980 and 22 February 2023 respectively. They have also publically provided the 12-month time period during which Ewart Chitty left - they said he left during the 1979 Service Year (ie sometime between 1 September 1978 to 31 August 1979). But we have no public acknowledgement regarding Leo Greenlees leaving.

 

Although Leo Greenlees is last mentioned in the Watchtower for 1 December 1984 - when he handed out diplomas for Gilead on 9 September 1984 - that December issue of the Watchtower would most likely have been printed and distributed before that year's Annual Meeting on 6 October 1984 where, as you can see above, he is listed as a speaker. Thus I would count the 1984 Annual Meeting as being the 'last reference' to him.

 

Following that Annual Meeting, the next time a full list of the Governing Body is publically provided I believe is in the 1986 Yearbook, which would likely have been printed in early November 1985? So that basically gives as a 12-month period.

 

GOVERNING BODY TIMELINE FROM 1971:

Governing Body 1971 Timeline - Dec 2023.pdf

 

[Murilo Orlando]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:59 PM, Murilo Orlando said:

I like to think about the progress we've made over the last 14 decades . . . the use of the cross . . .

 

The Organization is characterized by progress in its teaching. I, unfortunately, posted a topic here addressing the possibility that Jesus died on a cross. How disappointing of myself! Miserable man that I am! Jehovah is patient and merciful. Thank you brothers.

[Andrey]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:34 AM, Parale said:

 

 

I believe that the 1984 Centennial event at the Three Rivers Stadium was the last known public appearance of Leo Greenlees as a member of the Governing Body, before he disappeared.

 

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees.

 

Birth: June 6, 1911 in Glasgow, Scotland but immigrated to Canada in 1929. (need to clarify)

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees came to Bethel in Toronto on June 13, 1936. He had been a pioneer for five years in Ontario, Montreal and the Maritimes. At Bethel, Brother Greenlees had many fine privileges. Eventually, he became the treasurer for the Canadian branch office and for the International Bible Students Association of Canada. In 1964, Brother Greenlees was invited to Brooklyn Bethel. (1979 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 135-136)

 

Early in 1965, due to illness, it had become necessary for Eugene Rosam to leave Toronto Bethel and return to serving congregations in the field. Leo Kincaid Greenlees was recalled from Brooklyn to look after the branch office in this country, taking up these duties in March. (1979 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 162-163)

 

In 1965 was elected as a director of the Society New York corporation. The annual meeting for this Society was held January 2, 1965, at Brooklyn, New York, at the headquarters of the Society. For the information of Jehovah's witnesses, the directors of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., are: N. H. Knorr, president; F. W. Franz, vice-president; Grant Suiter, secretary and treasurer, and J. O. Groh, assistant secretary and treasurer; G. M. Couch, director; M. H. Larson, director, and Leo Kincaid Greenlees, director. (1966 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 290)

 

As was recorded in The Watchtower, H. H. Riemer finished his earthly course on March 31, 1965, and shortly thereafter Brother Leo Kincaid Greenlees was elected as a director of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., to fill the vacancy made by the death of Brother Riemer. Brother J. O. Groh, a director, was made the assistant secretary and treasurer in the place of Brother Riemer. (1966 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 290)  

 

As a director Leo Kincaid Greenlees automatically became a Governing Body member when that body was formally instituted in 1971. Leo Kincaid Greenlees was a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses from 1971 through 1984.

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees, a member of the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body. (w82 11/15 p. 27)

 

To conclude the morning session, September 9, 1984, at the Queens, New York, Assembly Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the chairman of the program, Leo Kincaid Greenlees, passed out the diplomas. It was graduation day for 37 students making up the 77th class of the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead. (w84 12/1 p. 27)

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees was the concluding speaker for the day at the Watchtower Centennial meeting at Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on October 6, 1984. (7:05 p.m., «As a Theocratic Organization»)

 

At the end of 1984, Leo Kincaid Greenlees resigned as a member of the Governing Body.

 

After leaving Bethel Leo Kincaid Greenlees served as a Special Pioneer and eventually an elder in the "Downtown" congregation in New Orleans, Louisiana. (need to clarify)

 

Last residence: Brooklyn, Kings County, NY 11201. https://www.ancientfaces.com/person/leo-k-greenlees-birth-1911-death-1988/12033757

 

Death: February 17, 1988, Ceres city Stanislaus County, California, USA. (need to clarify)

 

Burial: Modesto, Stanislaus County, California USA, on Saturday, February 20, 1988. (need to clarify)

 

Edited July 20 by Qapla

[Andrey]

5 hours ago, Andrey said:

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees.

 

Birth: June 6, 1911 in Glasgow, Scotland but immigrated to Canada in 1929. (need to clarify)

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees came to Bethel in Toronto on June 13, 1936. He had been a pioneer for five years in Ontario, Montreal and the Maritimes. At Bethel, Brother Greenlees had many fine privileges. Eventually, he became the treasurer for the Canadian branch office and for the International Bible Students Association of Canada. In 1964, Brother Greenlees was invited to Brooklyn Bethel. (1979 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 135-136)

 

Early in 1965, due to illness, it had become necessary for Eugene Rosam to leave Toronto Bethel and return to serving congregations in the field. Leo Kincaid Greenlees was recalled from Brooklyn to look after the branch office in this country, taking up these duties in March. (1979 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 162-163)

 

In 1965 was elected as a director of the Society New York corporation. The annual meeting for this Society was held January 2, 1965, at Brooklyn, New York, at the headquarters of the Society. For the information of Jehovah's witnesses, the directors of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., are: N. H. Knorr, president; F. W. Franz, vice-president; Grant Suiter, secretary and treasurer, and J. O. Groh, assistant secretary and treasurer; G. M. Couch, director; M. H. Larson, director, and Leo Kincaid Greenlees, director. (1966 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 290)

 

As was recorded in The Watchtower, H. H. Riemer finished his earthly course on March 31, 1965, and shortly thereafter Brother Leo Kincaid Greenlees was elected as a director of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., to fill the vacancy made by the death of Brother Riemer. Brother J. O. Groh, a director, was made the assistant secretary and treasurer in the place of Brother Riemer. (1966 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 290)  

 

As a director Leo Kincaid Greenlees automatically became a Governing Body member when that body was formally instituted in 1971. Leo Kincaid Greenlees was a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses from 1971 through 1984.

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees, a member of the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body. (w82 11/15 p. 27)

 

To conclude the morning session, September 9, 1984, at the Queens, New York, Assembly Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the chairman of the program, Leo Kincaid Greenlees, passed out the diplomas. It was graduation day for 37 students making up the 77th class of the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead. (w84 12/1 p. 27)

 

Leo Kincaid Greenlees was the concluding speaker for the day at the Watchtower Centennial meeting at Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on October 6, 1984. (7:05 p.m., «As a Theocratic Organization»)

 

At the end of 1984, Leo Kincaid Greenlees resigned as a member of the Governing Body.

 

After leaving Bethel Leo Kincaid Greenlees served as a Special Pioneer and eventually an elder in the "Downtown" congregation in New Orleans, Louisiana. (need to clarify)

 

Last residence: Brooklyn, Kings County, NY 11201. https://www.ancientfaces.com/person/leo-k-greenlees-birth-1911-death-1988/12033757

 

Death: February 17, 1988, Ceres city Stanislaus County, California, USA. (need to clarify)

 

Burial: Modesto, Stanislaus County, California USA, on Saturday, February 20, 1988. (need to clarify)

 

 

GREENLEES, Leo Kincaid - Unexpectedly at his home in Ceres, California, died of a stroke. He was hospitalized at Modesta for only one day before passing way the 18th of February, 1988. He was born in Glasgow, Scotland 77 years ago but immigrated to Canada in 1929. In 1931 he took up the full-time Ministry as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. His ministry extended across Canada. Including many years at the Branch Office of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in Toronto. For over 20 years, he served at the World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses and travelled extensively around the world in an official capacity. He continued in the full-time service until his death. He leaves two sisters and two brothers and several nephews and nieces. He was well loved and appreciated by all he touched in his life. A memorial service will be held in Modesta, California on Saturday, February 20, 1988.

 

[Parale]

19 hours ago, Andrey said:

As was recorded in The Watchtower, H. H. Riemer finished his earthly course on March 31, 1965, and shortly thereafter Brother Leo Kincaid Greenlees was elected as a director of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. ... (1966 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 290)

 

As a director Leo Kincaid Greenlees automatically became a Governing Body member when that body was formally instituted in 1971.

 

I don't think we can say he 'automatically became a Governing Body member', but rather he was appointed in 1971 - do you have any Watchtower references for your research please?

 

I believe you have mixed up two distinct and separate corporations, namely the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania - the directors of which "the governing body was closely associated with" (The Watchtower 15 May 1997, page 17, paragraph 8); and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of New York - the directors of which where NOT associated with the governing body.

 

Greenlees was, as the 1966 Yearbook states, appointed as a director of WTB&TS of New York, but as I understand it he was never a director of the WTB&TS of Pennsylvania.

 

The number of directors of the WTB&TS of Pennsylvania was limited to just seven. In September 1971 they where: Sullivan; Knorr; Suiter; F. Franz; Swingle; Henschel; and Groh.

 

When the Governing Body was 'formally instituted in [October] 1971' the body was expanded to number 11 members - the seven existing directors, plus the newly appointed R Franz; Jackson; Greenlees; and Gangas.

 

Thus Greenlees was appointed to the Governing Body in 1971, he did not automatically become a member, as he was not a director of the WTB&TS of Pennsylvania.

 

If you have any WT etc references from your research that would help, or shed more light, that would be great

 

See the GOVERNING BODY TIMELINE FROM 1971 below, along with the notes on the second page:

 

Governing Body 1971 Timeline - Dec 2023.pdf

 

Edited July 21 by Parale

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Parale said:

Greenlees was, as the 1966 Yearbook states, appointed as a director of WTB&TS of New York, but as I understand it he was never a director of the WTB&TS of Pennsylvania.

To confirm....this is the 1966 Yearbook section that shows Greenlees elected to the WBTS New York Corp in 1965.

 

 

 

[Roberto Flores]

I had the pleasure of meeting the brother Greenlees  his visit to Mexico in the dedication of Betel 2

[Andrey]

I just want to clarify a little bit.

 

 

*Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

On Saturday morning, January 3, 1970, in accordance with notice to the membership the annual meeting of the members of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., was held at the offices of the Society, located at 124 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, New York 11201. The vice-president, F. W. Franz, presided in the absence of N. H. Knorr, who, while present by proxy, was personally in Mexico at the time of the meeting. All fifty-four members were present in person or by proxy. The terms of L. K. Greenlees, N. H. Knorr and M. H. Larson expired. All three were renominated and unanimously elected as directors for an ensuing term of two years. A very interesting report was made by H. E. Miller on the field service activity in the United States. M. H. Larson spoke relative to the publishing work of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York. G. M. Couch noted that there were 1,325 persons then at Bethel, with 71 more members situated at Watchtower farms. The meeting had been opened with prayer by W. P. Heath, and it was closed with prayer by A. B. Tedesco. (1971 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 322)

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=301971005&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=10

 

*Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

In accordance with notice to the membership and provisions of law, on Saturday, January 2, 1971, the annual meeting of the members of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., was held in the offices of the Society located at 124 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, New York. In the absence of N. H. Knorr, who was caring for the Society’s business in Africa, the vice-president, F. W. Franz, presided. The 54 members of this Society were there either in person or by proxy. The members voted that F. W. Franz, J. O. Groh and Grant Suiter succeed themselves as directors of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., and each was unanimously reelected to serve again for a term of two years. Various interesting reports were made by members of the Society. Immediately thereafter the directors of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., met and they elected N. H. Knorr as president, F. W. Franz as vice-president, Grant Suiter as secretary and treasurer, and J. O. Groh as assistant secretary and treasurer. The other directors of the Society are G. M. Couch, L. K. Greenlees and M. H. Larson. The meeting was adjourned with prayer offered by L. K. Greenlees. (1972 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 258-259)

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=301972010&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=7

 

*The Governing Body

The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses consists of eleven brothers, all anointed of God. They are as follows: Frederick W. Franz, Raymond V. Franz, George D. Gangas, Leo K. Greenlees, John O. Groh, Milton G. Henschel, William K. Jackson, Nathan H. Knorr, Grant Suiter, Thomas J. Sullivan and Lyman A. Swingle. (1973 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 257) https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=301973008&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=2

 

*Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

In accordance with the requirements of law, charter and notice to the membership, on Saturday, January 1, 1972, the annual meeting of the members of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., was held at the offices of the Society located at 124 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, New York 11201. The president, N. H. Knorr, presided and A. B. Tedesco opened with prayer. The membership of the corporation stood at fifty-one, and all were present in person or by proxy. Several reports were made on the progress of the work of the Society, and the election of directors took place. The expiring terms were those of L. K. Greenlees, N. H. Knorr and M. H. Larson. All fifty-one members unanimously reelected these directors to succeed themselves for a term of two years. (1973 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 259)

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=301973008&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=16

 

Leo К. Greenlees was not elected a director in 1971; his 2-year term under 1970 had not expired. Could he have “automatically” become a member of the Governing Body, according to the Watchtower of December 15, 1971? Or does this apply only to members of the Watchtower Society, Pennsylvania Bibles and Tracts?

 

"Another thing to keep in mind is this: The directors of the Society now have their terms of office expire after three years, and each year there are directors whose term expires and who need to be replaced or be reelected to office by the members of the Society at its annual corporation meeting. Each year also the terms of the three officers of the Society expire, namely, those of the president, vice-president and secretary-treasurer (and now also of his assistant). But is this the case with the members of the governing body of the “faithful and discreet slave” class? No! The members of the governing body are not elected annually, but are in their positions of responsibility permanently as long as they live and continue faithful as disciples of Jesus Christ". (A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". w71 12/15 p. 755-762) 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1971923

[jwhess]

Keep in mind, that after the change to "Governing Body" separate from "officers of the corporations"  The rules about electing and the 3-year terms did not interchange.  There are still presidents, vp, sec-treasurers and so on for the corporations.  they are still elected to fill their jobs.  Most of us do not know the names or faces of these brothers.

[jdcarlson]

Thank  you to everyone on this thread,

 

I have particular interest in the history Jehovah's Organization.

 

My family's history with the Organization began before 1920.  After he got out of the Coastal Artillery in WWI, my maternal grandfather was a railroad steam engineer. The fireman (the guy who shoveled coal into the firebox), was a "Bible Student" (as we were called then). So you had two men (engineer & fireman) confined in a 10' by 10' metal box (called the "cab") at the end of the steam engine. They would be confined in that box for hours at a time. The Bible Student took the opportunity to talk to my grandfather about accurate knowledge of the Scriptures. My grandfather took the information (and publications) home with him. He, my grandmother, and my grandmothers' mother (my great grandmother) all accepted the truth. As their five children were born, they also became "Bible Students."

 

My great-gradmother was the first generation Jehovah's Witness in our family. My grandparents were the second generation of witnesses. My mother and her siblings were third generation witnesses. I, and my many cousins, are fourth generation witnesses, my son is fifth generation witness, my two grandsons (provided they "make the truth their own") will be sixth generation witnesses.

 

I am an only child. But my aunt and all three of my uncles had at least five children, some several more. I have a lot of cousins. Some with significant privileges in Jehovah's Organization. Many are Elders or MS. The life story of my uncle (George Brumley) is in the December 1, 1992, Watchtower.

 

Althoug my family's history of association of Jehovah's organization goes back 100 years, I had the privilege of tracing earlier history of Jehovah's organization.

 

When a new kingdom hall was to be dedicated for our congregation, I was given the task of researching the history of Jehovah's organization in Pensacola. At that time there was an elderly sister of the annointed whose family moved to Pensacola in 1912 (the Davis family). When the Davis family came to Pensacola, they found two "Bible Students" already here. They began having weekly meetings in the Davis home in 1912. The elderly sister was a girl when her family moved to Pensacola, and she remembered where they met for meetings. When I visited her, she made a list of every building that had been used, starting her old family home in 1912, and then every other building where meetings or assemblies were held (with year identifications for each building) from 1912 to 1966 (the year our new Kingdom Hall was dedicated). She also gave other information about the history of the organization in Pensacola.

 

At that time a brother in the congregation was Program Director of a local TV station. He and I went around and took pictures (slides) of evey building used for congregation meetings and assemblies acccording to the list the elder sister made up for us. By the time we took the pictures, the Pensacola Opera House (where Brother Russell had shown The Photodrama of Creation) had been torn down, but we found a line drawing of that building. We made a slide of that to complete the collection of pictures of the history of our congregation.

 

She said Brother Russell came to Pensacola about 1914 to show The Photodrama of Creation in the old Pensacola Opera House (long ago demolished). She said her father had to do the electrical wiring at the opera house to show the Photodrama.

 

She said Brother Russell made another visit to Pensacola a year later. She said there were articles in the local newspaper about both of Brother Russell's visits.

 

The University of West Florida (UWF) Library had copies of the Pensacola News-Journal back to 1900 on microfilm. A group of sisters from our congregation went to the UWF Library to find the articles about Brother Russell's visits. Although we are extremely thankful that the UWF Library had these microfilm copies, they were not indexed. So the sisters had to go through each issue, page by page, searching for any mention of Brother Russell. They finally found a very positive article about a visit. That article said he had been to Pensacola in the prior year. So  -  then they had to go back starting at the first day of the prior year's microfilm copies to see if there was any coverage. They finally found the article discussing the prior visit (which was the time he came to show Photodrama of Creation). They asked the library to make full size copies of the articles. We made slides of the articles to include in the slide presentation of the history of the congregation for the dedication program. Somewhere, I still those slides.

 

I first attended my current congregation in 1961 when my father's job brought him to Pensacola. I was only here for three months (just long enough to meet a dear young sister with a very solid background in the truth). Then my father's job moved him to St. Louis, Mo. Since I was still in high school, obviously I went with them.

 

I returned in 1963 to marry the young sister I met during the thre months I was in Pensacola earlier. We had our 61st anniversary in August, 2024. I am still in that same congregation.

 

I do not know of many congregations who can trace their roots back to 1912, and who have the documentaion in the form of pictures of all meeting places. 

 

Our congregation has long roots, going was back. I feel it is a privilege to be associated with a congregation that old.

 

Prior to the Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom book, in 1959 the Society published a book Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose. I recently saw a copy of that offered on an internet auction site for $200.

 

Since I began field ministry in October, 1949, I can remember many of the events described on both books the Society has published about the hitory of Jehovah's organization on earth.

 

I recommend the Centennial brouchure and the Proclaimers book for everyone. Read them again. Even if you, like myself, have known Jehovah's organization for many decades, it gives us appreciation for how Jehovah's organization has progressed sine the first Watchtower was published in July 1879.

 

Both publications help us to truly understand who wonderfully Jehvoah has directed his organization for over 100 years.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

[truce]

Has anyone heard anything about Brother Morris? 

[Tortuga]

4 hours ago, truce said:

Has anyone heard anything about Brother Morris? 

Have you heard any accurate and verifiable information about him that you want to share?

[truce]

53 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Have you heard any accurate and verifiable information about him that you want to share?

No.

[jdcarlson]

A generic Google search for Anthony Morris indicates in is in Lumberton, North Carolina.

 

However, I did not open any sites in the Google Search. Just from the URL link they all appeared to apostacy sites.

 

One Google listing says he received a home purchased by the Society.

 

But, AGAIN, I have not opened these sites, nor do I recommend anyone else doing so.

 

There could be many reasons why he is there. Without knowing why, anything we might say would be SPECULATION.

 

In this past week I believe I saw at least one video he narrated on JW.org, but I do not remembe which one.

 

We could have "if this" or "if that"  -  but these would all be speculation.

 

I do not believe anything has been on JW.org or any publications as was the case in the past when members of the GB were disfellopshipped. But, whether to attach any indication to that  -  again would be speculation.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

[blanchard]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:21 PM, momma said:

You can read the brochure in the Watchtower Online Library here:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/brochures-and-booklets/centennial-br84

But not in french ....