Armageddon...Let's Talk About It

[Timl1980]

That one single word has sparked fear and angst worldwide. To those outside Jehovah's organization...it can mean everything from a series of Hollywood produced movies and shows to WW3, nuclear war...and, to some...even the annihilation of the entire human race along with the planet on which we reside.

 

For those of us who love and worship Jehovah...the word carries with it a sense of finality and relief...at least in some senses. 

 

But if we are being completely honest...in some of us, (myself being foremost), it brings also a sense of dread. We understand that, as a group, we will be protected, and a great crowd will walk into the New System. 

 

But, as individuals...all of us have, at one time or another, probably at least THOUGHT of whether we will survive Jehovah's great day...or have to make the brief detour through the underground tunnel.

 

I would love to hear all of your thoughts on this subject, (please feel free to comment below) ...but for now...I will share a very poignant breakdown of a certain line of thought that caused me to really pause...and to re-evaluate my feelings about this awe-inspiring day.

 

As I begin...please click on the following link and look at the picture related to paragraph 15: https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=2019561

 

Do you see it?

 

Armageddon is underway...gunfire and chaos has erupted all around these brothers and sisters...but they are protected...by an angel.

 

Now...here is what this kind brother broke down for me...and although he extrapolated a little bit...I don't think any of you will fail to see his point.

 

He began by asking me what we know about the true power of just one angel. Of course...my answer was instantaneous...as I'm sure it is with each and every one of you.

 

One angel took out 185,000 men in one night...and, he reminded me...these weren't common folk with pitchforks...these were trained and battle-scarred veterans...every single one. 

 

Then he asked me how many angels there were...and once again...I came up with the right answer...myriads upon myriads. (10,000 times 10,0000 In other words...he said...by a conservative estimate....there could be 400 MILLION. (And one Watchtower says it could even be in the billions...which makes his breakdown even more mind blowing.) 

 

*As a side note, I am going with the number of 400 million faithful angels REMAINING in the heavens...knowing that Satan turned some of them bad. So, for the sake of simple math...I am sticking with 400 million FAITHFUL angels *

 

Then he said..."Okay, Tim. Let's think of it this way...let's say that, when Armageddon breaks out...there are 10 BILLION wicked people on earth. According to what we know...scripturally speaking...how many angels would it take to wipe out 10 BILLION people...in one night?"

 

Well, I didn't know the math...but he did.

 

Brothers and sisters...the number is staggeringly LOW: 54,054!!!!

 

That's it...that is all!!

 

Now...want to hear the kicker?

 

The brother leaned over his chair, looked me straight in the eye and asked another simple yet profound question: What do you think the rest of those angels are going to be doing? THEY ARE GOING TO BE PROTECTING US!!

 

Friends...he wasn't being dogmatic in saying this...he was simply trying to open up my eyes to a simple yet profound truth...we TRULY  have nothing whatsoever to fear when that day finally arrives.

 

His next words hit me hard...and frankly I'm still staggered as I sit here and write this.

 

"Now, let's assume that there are 10 million faithful Witnesses when that day breaks out...how many angels do you think are left over to guard each and every single one of US?"

 

Again, he hit me with the math: NEARLY 40 ANGELS....PER PERSON!!

 

Wow...just...

 

Friends...truly...we have absolutely nothing to worry about during that fear inspiring day...it's simply our job to remain faithful...to hang on...by our fingernails...our toenails...whatever we can use to hold tight to Jehovah's organization. Our father and his son have the rest covered...and it's not our fight. This is Jehovah himself finally standing up and taking back control of the earth and its rulership. 

 

Thank you for reading this, and I look forward to your comments and thoughts on the day when Jehovah will wipe away all traces of wickedness and badness off the surface of the earth.

 

Armageddon...let's talk about it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tortuga]

3 minutes ago, Timl1980 said:

Armageddon...let's talk about it!

I like to talk about the Day of Jehovah instead of the Great Tribulation or Armageddon. When we focus on discussing the Day of Jehovah it immediately reminds us that Jehovah has everything under control. Unfortunately, some are concerned about the Great Tribulation and Armageddon and even the words create negative feelings and anxiety. However, when we talk about the Day of Jehovah it reminds us that everything that happens during that tumultuous time is part of Jehovah's Day and he will protect those that he loves.

 

The Day of Jehovah....let's talk about it!

[Timl1980]

Just now, Tortuga said:

The Day of Jehovah....let's talk about it!

 

I'm definitely okay with that! (Actually, that's what I meant to say in a way...I was trying to be too clever for my own good🤣)

 

By all means, our focus should be on the positive, not the negative!!

 

So yes, I wholeheartedly agree...The Day Of Jehovah...Let's Talk About It!

 

 

[Tortuga]

I think it is interesting that when we think about cleaning the earth we probably think about the work after Jehovah's Day but destroying false religion is the first thing Jehovah does to cleanse the earth. Let the cleaning work begin!

[Dages]

The angel killing 185000 men... He did not need the whole night. 

 

[Timl1980]

Just now, Tortuga said:

I think it is interesting that when we think about cleaning the earth we probably think about the work after Jehovah's Day but destroying false religion is the first thing Jehovah does to cleanse the earth. Let the cleaning work begin!

I was actually thinking about this point yesterday. All the disgusting filth that Satan has infected the world with through that single channel is staggering...and then...in just the blink of an eye...she's gone...and all her sick priests and leaders along with her.

 

The hole that single event will leave in humanity will be staggering if you truly think about it...whatever protection they THOUGHT they had will be pulled out from underneath them...and I can only imagine how some will react during that time.

 

In the meantime, we will be sitting there...probably in a little shock ourselves...but our hearts will be singing out to Jehovah regardless!

[Timl1980]

1 minute ago, Dages said:

The angel killing 185000 men... He did not need the whole night. 

Very true...I guess "in a few hours" would have been more accurate. It could be minutes...or even seconds to be quite honest🤯

[Tortuga]

6 minutes ago, Dages said:

The angel killing 185000 men... He did not need the whole night. 

 

Jehovah didn't even need an angel to do that. Jehovah could have simply removed their life in an instant, but he used an angel, have you ever wondered why he did it that way?

[Timl1980]

5 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Jehovah didn't even need an angel to do that. Jehovah could have simply removed their life in an instant, but he used an angel, have you ever wondered why he did it that way?

Yes...and I thought of that as well. And from what the Watchtower said...it appears that this was Michael the arch angel who executed those men. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200270356/12/0

[Tortuga]

3 minutes ago, Timl1980 said:

Yes...and I thought of that as well. And from what the Watchtower said...it appears that this was Michael the arch angel who executed those men. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200270356/12/0

What does that tell us about Jehovah and Jesus?

[Timl1980]

2 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

What does that tell us about Jehovah and Jesus?

Jehovah assigns tasks to those he loves and trusts...just one thought off the top. What else do you have for me?

[Tortuga]

1 minute ago, Timl1980 said:

Jehovah assigns tasks to those he loves and trusts...just one thought off the top. What else do you have for me?

Jehovah delegates and gives the power and authority to complete the task.

What does that tell you about the preaching work?

[Timl1980]

4 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

What does that tell you about the preaching work?

We are definitely privileged to be working alongside angels in performing our ministry, plus it lets us know just how much dignity Jehovah gives us as individuals!

[Timl1980]

I also find it fascinating that, according to the Insight book, there have already been "miniature" fulfillments of the day of Jehovah, like in Isaiah 2:11-17 and Ezekiel 13:5. The future fulfillment is going to make those "days" pale in comparison!

[Ishaya]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

I like to talk about the Day of Jehovah instead of the Great Tribulation or Armageddon. When we focus on discussing the Day of Jehovah it immediately reminds us that Jehovah has everything under control. Unfortunately, some are concerned about the Great Tribulation and Armageddon and even the words create negative feelings and anxiety. However, when we talk about the Day of Jehovah it reminds us that everything that happens during that tumultuous time is part of Jehovah's Day and he will protect those that he loves.

 

The Day of Jehovah....let's talk about it!

 

I think before we begin to debate on semantics,it may be of great help to consider two things:

 

(1) The urgency of the time we live;

 

our message is ever more urgent now than ever before,this is no time to play diplomacy with people over this issue, people need to know exactly what will happen,how it will happen and how they could be affected,they need to understand how real this thing is so that they can take it seriously.

 

(2) The FDS still uses the word Armageddon,

they have not replaced it, nor have they ever suggested that it should be replaced for more subtle or milder expressions.

 

This is despite how scary it sounds to even some of we who are already witnesses,that in itself should tell us the relevance of not watering down the weight that the word carries.

 

 

[Timl1980]

I was doing a little research and saw that this is how the Insight book starts out the explanation of the Day of Jehovah:

 

The special period of time, not 24 hours, when Jehovah actively manifests himself against his enemies and in behalf of his people. With divine judgment executed against the wicked, Jehovah comes off victorious over his opposers during this “day.” It is also a time of salvation and deliverance for the righteous, the day in which Jehovah himself is highly exalted as the Supreme One. Thus, in a double way it is uniquely and exclusively Jehovah’s great day.

 

This day is detailed in the Scriptures as a time of battle, a great and fear-inspiring day of darkness and burning anger, a day of fury, distress, anguish, desolation, and alarm...

 

For us... it's good news... incredible, life altering good news.

 

For those on Satan's side... it's a time of deep fear and dark despair. It's a fearful thing to fall into he hands of the living God!

[Timl1980]

6 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

I think before we begin to debate

I don't think anyone was debating, at least I wasn't trying to and I don't think Tortuga was either. 

 

I just thought it was an awesome point and any conversation that would ensue would be equally up building for those of us who love Jehovah!😊

 

And you're right, the society still uses all the terms involved because they're all scriptural, so thank you for reminding us of that!

[Ishaya]

1 hour ago, Timl1980 said:

I don't think anyone was debating, at least I wasn't trying to and I don't think Tortuga was either. 

 

I think you got me wrong 😊

maybe the word debate sounded too confrontational,that's not what I was having in mind,

 

I used the word debate in anticipation of the situation that may probably follow,which is the need to clarify what Jehovah's "day" is and what Armageddon means.

 

These two expressions don't exactly mean the same thing,do they?

[Timl1980]

3 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

These two expressions don't exactly mean the same thing,do they?

Jehovah's day starts with the destruction of Babylon the great, and it culminates in the war of Armageddon I believe.

 

4 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

I used the word debate in anticipation of the situation that may probably follow,which is the need to clarify what Jehovah's "day" is and what Armageddon means.

And I can understand that thought process, yes. However, I think most brothers and sisters on here are working on their spiritual maturity enough to where it shouldn't be that big of a deal... hopefully 😊

 

But yes, I get what you're saying as well. Terms should be identified and clarified, and that is probably my fault for not putting that into my original post.

 

[Tortuga]

14 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

 

I think you got me wrong 😊

maybe the word debate sounded too confrontational,that's not what I was having in mind,

 

I used the word debate in anticipation of the situation that may probably follow,which is the need to clarify what Jehovah's "day" is and what Armageddon means.

 

These two expressions don't exactly mean the same thing,do they?

Please do some personal study on those two expressions and then please read my comment again. 

 

I'll wait....

[jwhess]

These recent expressions from our organization are points we should treasure.  Armageddon is a specific “day of Jehovah” not one of many.  It is uniquely designated (once and only once) by name in Revelation.  It can never be misconstrued or accidently confused with any other “day of Jehovah”

 

*** w22 February pp. 6-7 par. 16 Do You Trust in Jehovah’s Way of Doing Things? ***

¹⁶ There is another aspect that we would do well to consider—Jehovah’s judgments at the end of this system of things. Right now, we hold out hope for many who are not serving Jehovah, including our unbelieving relatives. But at Armageddon, Jehovah, through Jesus, will make the final decision about their future. (Matt. 25:31-33; 2 Thess. 1:7-9) It will not be up to us to decide who will receive Jehovah’s mercy and who will not. (Matt. 25:34, 41, 46) Will we be able to trust in Jehovah’s judgments, or will they be a stumbling block for us? Clearly, we need to strengthen our trust in Jehovah now so that we will trust him implicitly in the future.

*** w19 September pp. 8-13 Armageddon Is Good News! ***

²⁰ Think how thrilled you will be when Babylon the Great is gone and when Armageddon is over! More important, imagine how profoundly happy you will be when God’s name and sovereignty have been fully vindicated! (Ezek. 38:23) Yes, Armageddon is good news for those who know God, obey his Son, and endure to the end.—Matt. 24:13.

 

*** w05 12/1 p. 7 Armageddon—A Happy Beginning ***

Jehovah’s active intervention at Armageddon will be with mankind’s best interests at heart. In the face of worsening world conditions, only God’s perfect rulership will completely satisfy mankind’s needs. Only by means of his Kingdom will true peace and prosperity prevail. What would world conditions be like if God forever refrained from taking action? Would not hatred, violence, and wars continue to plague mankind as they have throughout the centuries of human rulership? The battle of Armageddon is actually one of the best things that could happen to us!—Luke 18:7, 8; 2 Peter

 

[Timl1980]

8 minutes ago, jwhess said:

It can never be misconstrued or accidently confused with any other “day of Jehovah”

I agree in that it is specifically used in scripture and that it's impossible for it to mean anything other than what it means, however, I do know a few friends who kinda sorta used the terms interchangeably for a while, not out of disrespect or malice, just because they thought they were similar in meaning.

 

The watchtower articles and the insight book along with other publications make it crystal clear what is what, and yet some might make a mistake by using them almost interchangeably, even when they are not.

 

A little clarification and gentle reminders go a long way for our brothers and sisters who either make a mistake or just have things a little muddled in their heads.

[Timl1980]

24 minutes ago, jwhess said:

It can never be misconstrued or accidently confused with any other “day of Jehovah”

 

I can not agree with that, because regardless of how simple something is to us personally, others might not be at the same place spiritually as some are.

 

So I would say that, after clarifying the situation for someone who DOES think that way... there's no way they can go back to saying it wrongly, unless there is something else going on in the background that we don't know about. (Such as forgetfulness or something of that nature)

 

Humans are humans, and the second we start saying it's impossible for us to louse something SO simple up...we will inevitably and spectacularly prove them wrong 😊 I would know, I am guilty of this all the time 🤣😂 But again, I definitely get your point and I agree wholeheartedly with that!!

Edited June 24 by Timl1980

[jwhess]

14 minutes ago, Timl1980 said:

I can not agree with that, because regardless of how simple something is to us personally, others might not be at the same place spiritually as some are.

 

So I would say that, after clarifying the situation for someone who DOES think that way... there's no way they can go back to saying it wrongly, unless there is something else going on in the background that we don't know about. (Such as forgetfulness or something of that nature)

 

Humans are humans, and the second we start saying it's impossible for us to louse something SO simple up...we will inevitably and spectacularly prove them wrong 😊 I would know, I am guilty of this all the time 🤣😂 But again, I definitely get your point and I agree wholeheartedly with that!!

Faithful servant today may be talking about any one of a number of actions called “the day of Jehovah”.  And rightly so.  They are described in the Bible as such.  We could even add the Noachian Flood or other “Great Days of Jehovah’s” judgements.

 

Another person overhears the expression, will they confuse it with Armageddon?  Possibly.  But there is never any doubt when we plainly say Armageddon.  It specifically names the event.

 

*** it-1 pp. 594-595 Day of Jehovah ***

 

Times of Destructive Judgment. From certain features of the prophecies, and in view of subsequent events, it appears that the expression, “the day of Jehovah,” at least in a miniature way, referred to different times of destructive judgment that occurred long ago at the hands of the Most High. For example, Isaiah envisioned what would befall unfaithful Judah and Jerusalem on “the day belonging to Jehovah of armies,” which was coming “upon everyone self-exalted and lofty” among them. (Isa 2:11-17) Ezekiel addressed himself to the unfaithful prophets of Israel, warning that they would in no way serve to fortify their cities “in order to stand in the battle in the day of Jehovah.” (Eze 13:5) By the mouth of his prophet Zephaniah, Jehovah foretold how he was about to stretch out his hand against Judah and Jerusalem, giving special attention so that not even the princes or the sons of the king would escape. (Zep 1:4-8) As the facts show, that “day of Jehovah” came upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.

In that distressing time of trouble upon Judah and Jerusalem, her neighboring nations such as Edom showed their hatred for Jehovah and his people, causing the prophet Obadiah (vss 1, 15) to prophesy against them: “For the day of Jehovah against all the nations is near. In the way that you have done, it will be done to you.” Similarly, “the day of Jehovah” and all the fiery destruction embraced within that expression befell Babylon and Egypt just as foretold.—Isa 13:1, 6; Jer 46:1, 2, 10.

 

Later, through the prophet Malachi, another “great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah” was foretold, and it was said that it would be preceded by the coming of “Elijah the prophet.” (Mal 4:5, 6) The original Elijah had lived some 500 years before that prophecy was uttered, but in the first century C.E. Jesus indicated that John the Baptizer was the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Mt 11:12-14; Mr 9:11-13) So at that time a “day of Jehovah” was near at hand. At Pentecost of 33 C.E., Peter explained that what was occurring was the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy (Joe 2:28-32) concerning the outpouring of God’s spirit and that this too was due to happen before “the great and illustrious day of Jehovah.” (Ac 2:16-21) That “day of Jehovah” came in 70 C.E., when, in fulfillment of his Word, Jehovah caused the armies of Rome to execute divine judgment upon the nation that had rejected the Son of God and defiantly shouted: “We have no king but Caesar.”—Joh 19:15; Da 9:24-27.

 

[Timl1980]

2 minutes ago, jwhess said:

Another person overhears the expression, will they confuse it with Armageddon?  Possibly.  But there is never any doubt when we plainly say Armageddon.  It specifically names the event.

Yep, I agree! It's strange that some of the friends would even say it, but they either learn it or just say, "oh yeah, I forgot! I'm sorry."

 

The event is absolutely plain in the Bible and plus we always differentiate when we speak of it, so it should be basic understanding really. 

 

Thank you for all the reference materials, they add to the conversation and help all of us get a better grip on things to come!