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*** it-2 p. 851 Samuel ***
Though informed by Samuel that the monarchy would result in the loss of certain liberties, the people still insisted on having a king."
 
(1 Samuel 8:18) . . .YOU will certainly cry out in that day by reason of YOUR king, whom YOU have chosen for yourselves, but Jehovah will not answer YOU in that day.. . .
 
 
*** w10 1/15 p. 30 par. 9 Jehovah’s Way of Ruling Vindicated! ***
throughout the ages, government in the hands of humans who do not know Jehovah has failed to bring permanent good results.
 
*** w11 7/15 p. 13 par. 14 Will You Follow Jehovah’s Loving Guidance? ***
Although Jehovah allowed the Israelites to have a human king, he had his prophet Samuel deliver a pointed warning about pursuing such “unrealities".  Satan is still adept at convincing people to pursue unrealities
 
Jehovah describes human governments as wild beasts for a reason.  (ex:  (Daniel 8:20, 21) . . .The ram that you saw possessing the two horns [stands for] the kings of Me′di·a and Persia. 21 And the hairy he-goat [stands for] the king of Greece; and as for the great horn that was between its eyes, it [stands for] the first king.)
 
 Although they've had a few centuries of democracy, they're reverting back and displaying their true colors.  It is truly about sovereignty and they couldn't care less about their citizens, in any country.

 

With militarized law enforcement, the abuses can now intensify, but that's what you get when you put your trust in nobles and the sons of earthling man.  Man truly does dominate man to his injury (Psalms 118:9; 146:3; Ecclesiastes 8:9)

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It has always been about who rules the rule. We know who rules this world 1 John 5:19.   Yep, Samuel was heart was broken when they requested..."Hey, (first sign of disrespect) we want a KING like every body else has (lack of faith in Jehovah). "Yeah, we're tired of being treated as outcasts."  (joining Satan's entrouge).    LIn, remember that WT we had a few months ago, the one with the picture showing the military marching on False Religion...well I think they are preparing to subdue the people in their places now, but will go banana's when the G. T. breaks out.   Though the slave didn't pinpoint what sort of miliarty would be marching against people, it could be any form of police run government agencies, and the military itself.   I read the news and I see it happen more and more in England, France, and other European Countries, and in the Far East, and Africa.  In some places, its happending here, like the IRS, and NSA.  Its just a little less sutle here, till someone opens the bag of beans and they all spill out.   These are more proofs that God's Word is absolute truth!  

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and the military itself.

 

This is an interesting comment because they (U.S.) is and has been working around a law called Posse Comitatus. This act generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. They have done away with that so military can be used to that exact type of work.

 

According to some in Canada and US Obama is now giving the military members a litmus test -- and it's not a good one.

 

http://youtu.be/cNuiLJHejKM?t=2m52s

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Reagan's assistant treasury secretary tells the experience wherein law enforcement in small towns have "terrorist" training and swat teams.  He lives in a small community in FL where he visits the local shooting range for kicks.  When he visits, there are crowds of law enforcement training.  He was stunned when told about the "terrorist" training because no one is out there but senior citizens.  Interesting interview...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q0Nss_4r5k

 

If you're interested, a longer interview with Dr. Roberts from a couple of years ago  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB_c7tmgF2U

 

I find it interesting to hear from people who had put so much confidence in this system, worked on the "inside" and now speak with such dismay about what they see.  And yet, they don't want to hear anything about God's kingdom.  They only want to hear or consider a human solution.  Kind of like the Israelites accusing Moses and Aaron and completely disregarding that pillar of cloud and fire, while still envoking the word "Jehovah".  Or Jeremiah writing to captives in Babylon and yet Israelites as a group deny that anything Jeremiah says had any basis for belief.  "Don't believe you're own lying eyes" I guess...

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Reagan's assistant treasury secretary tells the experience wherein law enforcement in small towns have "terrorist" training and swat teams.  He lives in a small community in FL where he visits the local shooting range for kicks.  When he visits, there are crowds of law enforcement training.  He was stunned when told about the "terrorist" training because no one is out there but senior citizens.  Interesting interview...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q0Nss_4r5k

 

If you're interested, a longer interview with Dr. Roberts from a couple of years ago  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB_c7tmgF2U

 

I find it interesting to hear from people who had put so much confidence in this system, worked on the "inside" and now speak with such dismay about what they see.  And yet, they don't want to hear anything about God's kingdom.  They only want to hear or consider a human solution.  Kind of like the Israelites accusing Moses and Aaron and completely disregarding that pillar of cloud and fire, while still envoking the word "Jehovah".  Or Jeremiah writing to captives in Babylon and yet Israelites as a group deny that anything Jeremiah says had any basis for belief.  "Don't believe you're own lying eyes" I guess...

 

 

Dr. Roberts is a sharp person - I've read a lot of things he's written.

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

Edited by Jordan
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Have you read the by-law?

 

 

"No person in a street or other public place shall, after being requested to desist by a constable, or by and person annoyed or disturbed, or by any person acting on his behalf:

 

( a ) by shouting or singing;

 

( b ) by playing on a musical instrument; or

 

( c ) by operating or permitting to be operated any radio, gramophone, amplifier, tape recorder or similar instrument

 

Cause or permit to be made any noise which is so loud or so continuous or repeated as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to other persons in the neghbourhood."

 

 

This isn't unreasonable at all!! This person is intentionally being annoying LOUDLY and can't figure out why they are going after him??!! :lol1:

 

There is no GRAND conspiracy here either. He should STOP BEING ANNOYING!!!

Edited by trottigy
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Dr. Roberts is a sharp person - I've read a lot of things he's written.

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

 

I love this quote from his site:

 

 

This site offers factual information and viewpoints that might be useful in arriving at an understanding of the events of our time. We believe that the information comes from reliable sources, but cannot guarantee the information to be free of mistakes and incorrect interpretations. IPE has no official position on any issue and does not necessarily endorse the statements of any contributor. 

 

:lol1: "cannot guarantee - no mistakes or incorrect interpretations" i.e. please don't sue us!!! We are not connected to "this guy"!!!  :lol1:

 

When a group won't stand behind their main contributor - what does that tell you??? Logic dictates - neither should you.

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Actually he's pretty on target with what he is saying although I don't really have to side with anyone because I'm now in the truth, there are many things that he talks about specifically at the end of the video that are pretty obvious now. False flags have been used for a very long time to start wars, that's really nothing new.

 

 

for instance he mentioned this:

 

de-classified Vietnam transcripts show that the Gulf of Tonkin was a staged event - false flag that got America into Vietnam.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/world/asia/15vietnam.html?_r=4&emc=eta1&

 

And Jonson knew it never happened also but it was the reason that got America in to the war. They have done it many times and have admitted it then and now as in the middle east.

 

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/tapes.htm

 

Disclaimers - everyone should have one for legal reasons , including this forum - there's a lot of opinions here, someone could take some of them wrong way and sue - it's just a very common and smart thing to do if you have online businesses.  We have to do it at adheist or our attorney wouldn't have worked with us - people do crazy things. He specifically cited the competition would love to stop us from doing business, it's the same thing with blogs. Put something up that others don't like they look for a way to sue you to make you take it down. Just business...
 

It's much easier then going to court and being slowly legally bled out.

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Also, as Christians, we've been forewarned about the machinations of human government and how it leads to injury of other humans.  So when people who have worked inside these governments speak unflatteringly about those governments, I take notice.  It just adds support to what Jehovah has already established to be true.  Our faith is based on evident demonstrations of realities though unbeheld.  Most of us never really get to see what drives the decisions made by human rulers.  We just see the outcome.  In decades past, we got a little from the news media, but we can't even depend on that any more.  Add to that the apathy displayed by most people.

 

Talk about contrary talk by sinners against their own interest!

 

When talking about Germany society leading up to WWII, it's usually noted that there were plenty of signs but the citizenry just didn't care.  They were distracted with other things.  After WWII, the US actually brought in a lot of those same folks from medicine and industry to work here.  A lot of the same tactics are now being used against the American public and they are just as disinterested.

 

Thank goodness we're close to the end of this system.  It's going to get pretty bad and people will continue to take no note.  People in general take no note of the warning being sounded by Jehovah's people today, but they pretty much don't take note of much of anything, too focused on sports and other distracting forms of entertainment.  And Satan loves it that way and continues to inspire his minions to pump out more and more mind numbing nonsense.

 

I just find it interesting to hear former government officials and bureaucrats talk about how decisions are made and what the long-term goals are, and it's never good for the citizens and yet, they vote for these jokers and are hostile to others who don't.  Then they piss and moan when their "leaders" throw them under the bus.

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Also, as Christians, we've been forewarned about the machinations of human government and how it leads to injury of other humans.  So when people who have worked inside these governments speak unflatteringly about those governments, I take notice.  It just adds support to what Jehovah has already established to be true.  Our faith is based on evident demonstrations of realities though unbeheld.  Most of us never really get to see what drives the decisions made by human rulers.  We just see the outcome.  In decades past, we got a little from the news media, but we can't even depend on that any more.  Add to that the apathy displayed by most people.

 

Talk about contrary talk by sinners against their own interest!

 

When talking about Germany society leading up to WWII, it's usually noted that there were plenty of signs but the citizenry just didn't care.  They were distracted with other things.  After WWII, the US actually brought in a lot of those same folks from medicine and industry to work here.  A lot of the same tactics are now being used against the American public and they are just as disinterested.

 

Thank goodness we're close to the end of this system.  It's going to get pretty bad and people will continue to take no note.  People in general take no note of the warning being sounded by Jehovah's people today, but they pretty much don't take note of much of anything, too focused on sports and other distracting forms of entertainment.  And Satan loves it that way and continues to inspire his minions to pump out more and more mind numbing nonsense.

 

I just find it interesting to hear former government officials and bureaucrats talk about how decisions are made and what the long-term goals are, and it's never good for the citizens and yet, they vote for these jokers and are hostile to others who don't.  Then they piss and moan when their "leaders" throw them under the bus.

 

Lin,

I'm sure you're an exemplary sister; just a word of caution:

(W12 12/15 pg.20 par. 6)

Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses are law-abiding citizens in over 200 countries, yet regardless of where they live, they are like aliens. They maintain a position of strict neutrality as regards the political and social issues of the day. Even now, they consider themselves to be citizens of a new world, one of God’s making. They rejoice to see their days of temporary residence in an imperfect world system rapidly drawing to a close.

 

With regard to, "they vote for these jokers...":

"to him who calls for honor, such honor." Rom. 13:7

"Honor men of all sorts, ... have honor for the king." 1Pet. 2:17

 

It's hard to respect and honor men whom we have disdain for. That's why we all have to safeguard our minds and hearts. It's not easy! Take care.

Edited by trottigy
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:oops:   was my disdain showing?  I do try to honor people in positions of authority.  I guess my point is that the world puts human efforts and institutions on such pedestals and it's so undeserving.  Then they piss and moan when their leaders disappoint them.  As Jehovah's protected people, we have been warned about the folly of human ability to manage affairs successfully separate from Jehovah.  It's just like the Jews of Jesus' day.  They didn't like the Romans.  They wanted Jesus to participate in their political system, but when he offered them a better solution, they didn't want to hear about it.  They want the solution to come from the same environment that caused the problem to start with, which is insane.

 

Samuel said it best when he tried to warn the Israelites against elevating someone in their community to the position that was reserved for Jehovah.  It could only lead to anguish and distress.  But they were hardheaded and hardhearted.  So Jehovah told them, when the natural outcome arrived upon them, they would cry out to Him, but He would not listen  (1 Samuel 8:18) . . .And YOU will certainly cry out in that day by reason of YOUR king, whom YOU have chosen for yourselves, but Jehovah will not answer YOU in that day.”

 
So it's not so much that I have disrespect to human leaders (jokers) as much as I feel, "well what did you expect?"  I also think about the fact that Jehovah said that man is bad from his youth up, so how in the world could they ever, on their own, make good leaders.  The best intended of them is still imperfect.  The Bible record provides so many examples of faithful ones who had a hard time applying righteous principles.  It's no wonder that people who don't acknowledge Jehovah would be really oppressive to their fellow man.  We see this in government, business and religion.  The three main institutions of Satan's wicked world.  And it's only going to get worse and this system draws to a close.
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  • 1 year later...

Have you read the by-law?

 

 

"No person in a street or other public place shall, after being requested to desist by a constable, or by and person annoyed or disturbed, or by any person acting on his behalf:

 

( a ) by shouting or singing;

 

( b ) by playing on a musical instrument; or

 

( c ) by operating or permitting to be operated any radio, gramophone, amplifier, tape recorder or similar instrument

 

Cause or permit to be made any noise which is so loud or so continuous or repeated as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to other persons in the neghbourhood."

 

 

This isn't unreasonable at all!! This person is intentionally being annoying LOUDLY and can't figure out why they are going after him??!! :lol1:

 

There is no GRAND conspiracy here either. He should STOP BEING ANNOYING!!!

 

Have you been to Speakers Corner?  It's an area specifically where people can stand up and do exactly the sort of thing he is doing?  How about Oxford Circus - one of the busiest areas of Central London?  People are in that space for seconds as they go up and down the road or head into the tube.  It's not like he is going to quiet, residential areas and ramping his megafone up.

 

There are people who would like to suggest that our public ministry is offensive, annoying and disrupts the peace.  What he is standing up for are the exact same rights that our brothers have stood up for time and time again, through the 40s & 50s in the USA, then into Europe and beyond.

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Have you been to Speakers Corner?  It's an area specifically where people can stand up and do exactly the sort of thing he is doing?  How about Oxford Circus - one of the busiest areas of Central London?  People are in that space for seconds as they go up and down the road or head into the tube.  It's not like he is going to quiet, residential areas and ramping his megafone up.

 

There are people who would like to suggest that our public ministry is offensive, annoying and disrupts the peace.  What he is standing up for are the exact same rights that our brothers have stood up for time and time again, through the 40s & 50s in the USA, then into Europe and beyond.

 

I don't believe we do our public ministry by:

 

( a ) by shouting or singing;

 

( b ) by playing on a musical instrument; or

 

( c ) by operating or permitting to be operated any radio, gramophone, amplifier, tape recorder or similar instrument

 

Or do they do it differently in the UK? With a gramophone?

 

In the US we just had a KM part about this - and there wan't any mention of: Shouting at ones, playing a musical instrument OR amplifier.

Edited by trottigy
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I don't believe we do our public ministry by:

 

( a ) by shouting or singing;

 

( b ) by playing on a musical instrument; or

 

( c ) by operating or permitting to be operated any radio, gramophone, amplifier, tape recorder or similar instrument

 

Or do they do it differently in the UK? With a gramophone?

 

In the US we just had a KM part about this - and there wan't any mention of: Shouting at ones, playing a musical instrument OR amplifier.

 

 

Of course not, and to imply so is simply throwing up a strawman.  I think it is clear I am not trying to make a direct comparison between the way this chap makes his statements and our public ministry.  The local authority are using an interpretation of an arcane byelaw to stop someone doing something that the law does allow in an areas that are so busy it is a nonsense to suggest he is being annoying to the general public.  Of course he might be annoying to some of the corporations he is targeting but he's not stopping anyone doing anything they want to do.  Really however, this is the small picture.

 

The bigger picture surely is the comparison with the way that the law of countries like the US and UK, who are committed to the idea of free speech, can be used to prevent someone from engaging in peaceful activities that draw attention to a point that perhaps some don't like.  These tactics have been used time and time again to try and prevent our public ministry.  They were used 50, 60, 70 years ago in the US and were still being used not that long ago in some part of the US to try and prevent the door to door ministry.  Some have had to put up with similar discussions about what is lawful in regard to the cart witnessing.

 

I suspect your tone would be completely different if the video was of our plastic policemen (community support officers who are not the police) badgering a group of sisters to remove their cart from a public place.

Edited by seagull
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I am sorry I thought you were making a connection to him and our preaching by saying, " he is standing up for are the exact same rights that our brothers have stood up for time and time again."

 

Where CLEARLY he is NOT fighting for the same rights. He wants rights to be rude and use a megaphone to make a point. This is not something Jehovah's people do any more as part of their public witnessing - rudeness OR megaphones. 

 

I must have misunderstood.

 

note: if ->

 

I suspect your tone would be completely different if the video was of our plastic policemen (community support officers who are not the police) badgering a group of sisters to remove their cart from a public place.

 

IF our sisters were doing cart witnessing in front of a sign that said - "DO NOT BLOCK PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC" just to make a point like this guy -> I would NOT have a different tone.

Edited by trottigy
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The only connection is the (ab)use of the law to try and restrict completely lawful activities.  It was this that our brothers fought so successfully against.

 

I would agree 100% that if we being obstructive or deliberately provocative in our ministry then we would expect to be moved on.  Having said that, what about the "religion is a snare and a racket" sandwich boards?  Provocative or a valid use of free speech to make a bold statement?

 

Either way, I am not trying to start an argument, especially with someone I normally agree with :-), but just debating the point that, even if we disagree with the guy's methods and message, the same tactics used to try and stop him engaging in a perfectly lawful activity could be used to restrict our public ministry. 

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I can see the point that we have to be careful in condemning one thing only to ask for that same thing for us.

 

I have regularly made this same comment you are making in news posts myself.

 

BUT, I do believe this person looking for legal permission to be rude is different. Perhaps, I am misunderstanding what that "gentleman" is trying to do.

 

EDIT:

 

That "law" gives 3 things that one should NOT do (Shouting, musical instrument (especially DRUMS) and megaphones). These are things we don't do ANY MORE. I hope it is because we have wizened up - being RUDE doesn't drawn people to what you are saying. Instead, it often does the opposite.

 

My issue wasn't with his message. Free speech should allow him to deliver it - as it should allow us. It was just his method of yelling into a megaphone in people's ears while they were walking by. There should be a law against it. i am glad to see it enforced. 

Edited by trottigy
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I suspect your tone would be completely different if the video was of our plastic policemen (community support officers who are not the police) badgering a group of sisters to remove their cart from a public place.

 

I have personally seen some witnesses who were asked by police to leave a public place, and I (silently) sided with the police. When the elders were informed, they sided with the police as well, and had a local needs talk on the subject.

 

The area was a store sidewalk with clearly visible 'no loitering or soliciting' signs, they never sought any sort of permission, they were set up directly in front of the doors causing issues for those with shopping carts, and the manager had previously asked them several times to move down the sidewalk away from the doors, which they refused. When the police arrived, they were threatened with trespassing charges, and told to vacate the premises entirely.

 

If the witnesses had simply moved out of the way as asked, we could have gained a very productive public witnessing spot, and potentially opened the way for more. Instead, by enforcing imaginary and nonexistent "rights", they got us blacklisted from every store and shopping center owned by that developer, which has (to my knowledge) affected three congregations so far.

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I have personally seen some witnesses who were asked by police to leave a public place, and I (silently) sided with the police. When the elders were informed, they sided with the police as well, and had a local needs talk on the subject.

 

The area was a store sidewalk with clearly visible 'no loitering or soliciting' signs, they never sought any sort of permission, they were set up directly in front of the doors causing issues for those with shopping carts, and the manager had previously asked them several times to move down the sidewalk away from the doors, which they refused. When the police arrived, they were threatened with trespassing charges, and told to vacate the premises entirely.

 

If the witnesses had simply moved out of the way as asked, we could have gained a very productive public witnessing spot, and potentially opened the way for more. Instead, by enforcing imaginary and nonexistent "rights", they got us blacklisted from every store and shopping center owned by that developer, which has (to my knowledge) affected three congregations so far.

 

Quite right too.

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