Jiminy Cricket! Disney goes gay

[Cushi]

16 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

You seem to imply that it's OK to say he was a racist even though you didn't know him.  Am I misunderstanding you?  Why would this work in only one direction and not the other?

 

I cannot comprehend how anyone can read Twain's work and think he is a racist.  

 

The "n" word is used in Harper Lee's "To Kill a Mockingbird" and that is considered one of the most anti-racist books of modern literature.

Im not saying he was racist either. I don't know. Unlike to kill a monkingbird, Mark Twain's books were written with children in mind and marketed toward them. He should have known better.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Brother Jack

[hatcheckgirl]

Interesting verging off of topic. I haven't read Huck Finn or Mocking Bird for many years, but they are among classical literature, so held in high esteem by society, and good enough that they were studied in school even out of America.  So I had a look see at what Mark Twain himself said about slavery. Interesting thoughts here http://classiclit.about.com/od/marktwainfaqs/f/faq_mtwain_slav.htm

 

and here, specifically about Huck Finn http://classiclit.about.com/od/huckleberryfinnfaqs/f/faq_huck_slave.htm

 

Think also about historically set novels, such as Dickens, with appalling child labour and deep poverty and class distinctions. Those authors may not have fully believed in universal suffrage, equality in labour, and other human rights we take for granted in our world now.  But they do reflect life as it was then, with their own bias and hopes, and shows the progression towards a fairer society that we have now. I don't think it necessarily reflects that they wanted slavery, or a bourgeois life, while the masses went hungry. But that is what their societies were like then. 

 

We can't retrofit our views on the past. But we can learn from the past. It's a good lesson, and classical literature can teach that even though we have now progressed to this more sophisticated human rights epoch, look at how ridiculous it's become -as per the original post of this thread. Always returns to this - we need the Kingdom for true freedom.

[ChocoBro]

8 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

I agree that some may live in a time where racist views are excepted.

I'm careful about calling such things "racist", because in my opinion, that reflects the extreme attitude of the world which is always offended at everything now, everything is racist, homophobic, islamophobic and so on.

 

Yes, Disney cartoons expressed a lot of racial stereotypes in a very tactless way that appealed only to white audiences. But I'd be surprised to find a cartoon by Disney that actually depicted blacks as an inferior race to the degree of nazi style propaganda.

[Shawnster]

9 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

Im not saying he was racist either. I don't know. Unlike to kill a monkingbird, Mark Twain's books were written with children in mind and marketed toward them. He should have known better.

I'll have to research that as I do not believe Twain was targeting the children audience. Seems to me bit Twain and Lee are read by the same grade levels today. 

 

I'm interested in any references that support what target audience Twain intentionally wrote for. 

[Shawnster]

5 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

. But I'd be surprised to find a cartoon by Disney that actually depicted blacks as an inferior race to the degree of nazi style propaganda.

I don't know if many here in the States are aware the extents Nazi style propaganda went to. I know I have only seen less than a handful of snippets 

[Cushi]

13 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

I'm careful about calling such things "racist", because in my opinion, that reflects the extreme attitude of the world which is always offended at everything now, everything is racist, homophobic, islamophobic and so on.

 

Yes, Disney cartoons expressed a lot of racial stereotypes in a very tactless way that appealed only to white audiences. But I'd be surprised to find a cartoon by Disney that actually depicted blacks as an inferior race to the degree of nazi style propaganda.

I don't think calling something racist is being easily offended. It's just calling it what it is. I've heard people say many things about other races of people that didn't offend me that I considered racist. I don't find it worldly either. If someone is always making sexiest remarks, then that person is a sexist. It is what it is.

[ChocoBro]

8 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

I don't think calling something racist is being easily offended. It's just calling it what it is. I've heard people say many things about other races of people that didn't offend me that I considered racist. I don't find it worldly either. If someone is always making sexiest remarks, then that person is a sexist. It is what it is.

I'm sorry if you didn't understand my comment. I was implying that not everything the world considers "racist" is necessarily something I would call "racism", like using the term "black person". I don't have to go along with what's hip in terms of political correctness either. I find the world goes to extremes very quickly. Like, what is sexist? The bible is sexist. Nope, I don't go along with it.

[GStorrs46]

Causes me to felt the same as when I learned the Boy Scouts were changing their stance  on gays being permited in the Scouts. I was in the Scouts before we became witnesses and I can testify to many of the positive things I experienced at that time. And the many things I learned. Likewise with Disney. I wonder if Walt knew what his executives are now preposing, he would do a flip flop in his hyperbaric chamber in which his body is now preserved ! I believe he genuinely desired to create a wholesome company based on what had been recognized as true American family values.

No More !

 

GStorrs46

 

[kejedo]

p.s. I believe the "Q' in the previously quoted letter-line-up stands for  "Questioning."

 

[ChocoBro]

8 hours ago, kejedo said:

p.s. I believe the "Q' in the previously quoted letter-line-up stands for  "Questioning."

 

Then I'm LGBTQTGIF because I "question" the sanity of this system of things

[Tortuga]

14 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

Then I'm LGBTQTGIF because I "question" the sanity of this system of things

I'm pro LGBTQIA.

Let's Get Back To Questioning Idiotic Actions.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Tortuga

[Shawnster]

15 hours ago, kejedo said:

p.s. I believe the "Q' in the previously quoted letter-line-up stands for  "Questioning."

 

According to this source it means queer 

 

http://lgbtqia.ucdavis.edu/educated/glossary.html

6 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

Then I'm LGBTQTGIF because I "question" the sanity of this system of things

But only 4 days a week because you are pro Fridays 

 

TGIF 

[kejedo]

 

Q can mean either 'questioning' or 'queer,' Fred Sainz, a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, an organization that lobbies for LGBT rights, told USA TODAY Network. Either interpretation is accepted, he said.

 

As for spelling out words and such, Jiminy Cricket used to spell out ENCYCLOPEDIA in a song. The same tune was used to sing out the spelling of CONSTANTINOPLE. 

 

When I was teaching in a rather bizarre Private School, a mother was upset because we didn't have Little Black Sambo in the school Library.

 

                                                                                 Y (left as soon as contract was up) S 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by kejedo

[kejedo]

In TKAM, Francis calls Atticus , "N"-word lover for defending Tom Robinson.

  "     "       , Atticus tells Scout not to use the "N" word.

[Shawnster]

35 minutes ago, kejedo said:

 

Q can mean either 'questioning' or 'queer,' Fred Sainz, a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, an organization that lobbies for LGBT rights, told USA TODAY Network. Either interpretation is accepted, he said.

 

As for spelling out words and such, Jiminy Cricket used to spell out ENCYCLOPEDIA in a song. The same tune was used to sing out the spelling of CONSTANTINOPLE. 

 

When I was teaching in a rather bizarre Private School, a mother was upset because we didn't have Little Black Sambo in the school Library.

 

                                                                                 Y (left as soon as contract was up) S 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, kejedo said:

In TKAM, Francis calls Atticus , "N"-word lover for defending Tom Robinson.

  "     "       , Atticus tells Scout not to use the "N" word.

 

On 3/6/2017 at 0:44 AM, ChocoBro said:

I'm sorry if you didn't understand my comment. I was implying that not everything the world considers "racist" is necessarily something I would call "racism", like using the term "black person". I don't have to go along with what's hip in terms of political correctness either. I find the world goes to extremes very quickly. Like, what is sexist? The bible is sexist. Nope, I don't go along with it.

 

I think these three comments really illustrate how much a mess this social or society topic is.  

 

I watched a television show where one of the characters was making a distinction between "racial" and "racist."  He was explaining that racial comments are not necessarily racist.  They are simply statements of fact about a racial trait.  Saying "her alabaster skin and flame red hair" would be racial description without being racist.  Taking that racial comment further, commenting about how easily she burns in the sun because of her alabaster skin or making other comments about her avoiding the sun because of this would be racial comments.  Even making jokes about her lack of ability to withstand the sunlight would be racial jokes but not necessarily racist jokes.  Racist comments, on the other hand, are derogatory and insulting and hateful speech without basis.  

 

A Facebook meme I saw last month offended me.  It was a comment that only white men can be racist and sexist, since both of those were based on systems of oppression.  The person who made the original comment believed this.  They believed (so it appears) that a minority could not be racist because that minority was historically of the oppressed class.  Totally ridiculous when you think about it and I cited the Hutu and Tutsi bigotry in Africa as support.  India's caste system would definitely fit as well.  Here are 2 examples of non-white culture that practiced a systematic institution of racism.  But the person on Facebook was blinded by some bias and failed to see that bigotry and racism and sexism can come from more than just white men.   Basically the Facebook comment was a debate over definition of words.

 

If Q in LGBTQ has been defined as both "queer" and "questioning," then this is also simply debating over words.  It shows the fluid nature of the discussion based exclusively upon the personal opinion or bias of the speaker or the listener or both.  They can't even be consistent in their own terminologies.  How mixed up is that?

 

Twice now online I've encountered the mindset that "gender is a social construct but sex isn't.  Gender is open to interpretation but sex is either male or female."  Again, this is nothing more but debating over words and changing the definition of "gender" and "sex."  I've always held that gender is not only synonymous with sex but is actually a better or more clinical term to use.  

 

Some transgenders are fine with "male" or "female" restrooms just as long as they get to use the restroom of their choice.  Other transgenders prefer to see a third option that openly indicates "transgender" and they are opposed to anything else.  Other transgenders are fine and accepting of restroom signs that are designated for both genders or stated they are "single user restrooms."   It all depends on how militant the person is, how much noise they want to make and how much they want to attract attention and upset the status quo.   For some it is not exclusively about equality.

 

Use of the insulting "n word" is another example of the "debate over words" and the fluidity of the discussion.  To Kill a Mockingbird uses the N word as a product of the times it was both written in and, more importantly, the times it depicts.  Context affects meaning and its clear Harper Lee was not intentionally being offensive.  Atticus tells Scout to not use such language.  One has to first know what the word is in order to avoid using that word.  

 

Popular culture, however, has completely mixed up the "n word."  The rap group N.W.A. embraces the word.  Rap culture and rap music freely peppers the word in their lyrics and speech.  It's like the word is only an obscene word if a white person uses it.  Or, it's OK to use the "n word" if it's mispronounced or misspelled so that it ends in "a" or "az" instead of "er."   2 big, muscular black men can call each other the "n word" all day long but the moment some pasty white boy calls them that word that poor boy gets pounded to a pulp.  

 

It's a mixed signal.  Either the word is obscene or it isn't.  Claiming that it's OK or acceptable to use the word based upon the color of your skin is discriminatory and reflects racial bias.  

 

And, yet, that's the world we live in.  Wrong is right in certain contexts based based upon racial bias.  If you don't like the terms used, change the terms so as to cloud the issue.  Send as many mixed signals as possible so as to keep everyone off balance and arguing over minutiae or sins committed in the distant past.  

 

It's a mess.  Only the Kingdom can clean up this mess.  Until then we'll always live in eras where people are or have been systematically oppressed and discriminated against based upon one factor or another.  No matter how far removed from the atrocity we move in the stream of time, someone will always bring up how in the distant past so-and-so dis something to someone and now, today, in the 21st century those wounds are still open and bleeding.  

 

Come Lord Jesus.

[kejedo]

2 hours ago, kejedo said:

 

Q can mean either 'questioning' or 'queer,' Fred Sainz, a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, an organization that lobbies for LGBT rights, told USA TODAY Network. Either interpretation is accepted, he said.

 

As for spelling out words and such, Jiminy Cricket used to spell out ENCYCLOPEDIA in a song. The same tune was used to sing out the spelling of CONSTANTINOPLE. 

 

Just adding info, not engaged in any debate. If I were humming the tune to ENCYCLOPEDIA, and someone else thought I was humming the tune to CONSTANTINOPLE, there is nothing to debate. 

[Shawnster]

22 minutes ago, kejedo said:

Just adding info, not engaged in any debate. If I were humming the tune to ENCYCLOPEDIA, and someone else thought I was humming the tune to CONSTANTINOPLE, there is nothing to debate. 

 

 

 

Not to be confused with:

 

 

[kejedo]

 

[kejedo]

Melody starts at 1:14.

 

[BibleSteve]

Malaysia has asked Disney to cut the scene out in its region;

http://www.france24.com/en/20170316-disney-appeals-malaysia-cuts-beauty-beast

 

[MM9106]

I talked to a brother who saw the movie and he said that the "gay moment" was uncomfortable for a lot of people in the theater. Some parents had to explain what gay meant to their kids in the theater. He said that other people were clearly in shock to see something like that in a Disney movie. Pretty telling about the world's moral condition today. This is something that is only going to get worse and worse. 

 

I saw the post about Song of the South and I remembered a story that's been verified by the imagineers who were present in the meeting. Back in the 80's when Disney was looking into building a log flume ride for Walt Disney World and Disneyland, they knew that finding a theme for such a attraction would be difficult. Many guests were demanding the "next pirates of the carribean" from imagineering. The lead imagineer of the project, Tony Baxter, saw that the old America Sings attraction at Disneyland was closing. He noticed the animatronics were in great condition. He also saw Song of the South recently at the time and it just clicked for him. Take the old America Sings AAs and combine that with the characters from SotS and you have a great attraction. Everyone loved the idea except for Michael Eisner. He knew SotS was controversial but he saw that the idea was incredible. He told the imagineers to re-release SotS in theatres and if there were no protests or angry letters, he would green light it. There weren't. In fact, it made a lot of money in theatres. Eisner approved it on the condition that Uncle Remus would not be in the attraction because of the stereo types that he portrayed. The imagineers agreed and that was how Splash Mountain came to be. 

 

Sorry for the slightly off topic post but I thought this story was pretty neat and decided to share. Disney company history is pretty fascinating. 

[Raven]

On 3/2/2017 at 11:45 AM, Greg Dent said:

Disney hasnt been squeeky clean over the years. They hide subliminal messages in almost everything. Sex messages and phalic symbols all over. Disney has even gotten into demonism is some movies. Dont be so shocked it has gone this way.

Not to mention a little racism.

[Raven]

It's all part of living in the last days. The closer we get to the end, the more of this sort of thing we are likely to see...Actually, it's quite telling about just how close we must be to the end!