DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[tekmantwo]

Mr Putin 'these ceremonies bring such good people here. This goodness literally hangs in the air, it’s tangible, you can feel it. It is no doubt because you have such spirit and great hearts that you achieve such beautiful success in life.'

 

I'm gonna say that the thing he felt was not due to humans. ...

Holy spirit has a way of being 'felt'...*

 

 

*ask the Assyrians...

[bagwell1987]

IDK, I'm sort of neutral on this whole thing. I'm preferring to just wait. There's so many conflicting things going on, saying one thing then behaving in a contradictory manner. Ya, I think I'll wait and see what's really going on.

Seems like just when we think it's one way, we find out we were wrong. Remember in this weeks' BS it said it took 7 years before the brothers made any moves, maybe what we need to do is wait.

[GeordieGirl]

Edited June 7, 2017 by GeordieGirl

[alohapaulette]

Apparently It is Alexander Verkhovsky who defines what extremism is in Russia:

 

http://www.uscirf.gov/news-room/press-releases/defining-religious-extremism-in-russia

 

He  reminds me of Haman, who made trouble for Esther and Mordecai, whom the King Ahasuerus himself had high regard, and tried to wipe out the Jews.

[Victoria]

8 hours ago, alohapaulette said:

Apparently It is Alexander Verkhovsky who defines what extremism is in Russia:

 

http://www.uscirf.gov/news-room/press-releases/defining-religious-extremism-in-russia

 

He  reminds me of Haman, who made trouble for Esther and Mordecai, whom the King Ahasuerus himself had high regard, and tried to wipe out the Jews.

Alexander Verkhovsky is a very good person. He always supports JWs.

[alohapaulette]

52 minutes ago, Victoria said:

Alexander Verkhovsky is a very good person. He always supports JWs.

I meant to say Alexander Dvorkin.

[Paradise-Lover]

13 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

Mr Putin Salvatoeremonies bring such good pele here. This goodness literally hangs in the air, it’s tangible, you can feel it. It is no doubt because you have such spirit and great hearts that you achieve such beautiful success in life.'

 

I'm gonna say that the thing he felt was not due to humans. ...

Holy spirit has a way of being 'felt'...*

 

 

*ask the Assyrians...

Really? So, "extremists" can also be categorized as "good people" with "great hearts" who "achieve such beautiful success in life"? What a contradiction! As I see it, one of two things is happening here: (1) Putin was not made aware of the religious affiliation of the Novik family (2) He wants to publicly and significantly wash his hands off the persecution of our dear brothers in Russia. 

Either way, God the Almighty who always acts in style, is using Putin himself to pull down the unjust prosecutorial edifice put up by the Russian authorities against Jehovah's Witnesses.

I just want to Stand Still and See the Salvation of Jehovah

[Tortuga]

14 minutes ago, Chuka said:

(1) Putin was not made aware of the religious affiliation of the Novik family

That's my guess..

 

I wonder how that happened....

[Tortuga]

USA Today has an article about some of the recent events in Russia

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/06/01/persecution-jehovahs-witnesses-russia-intensifies/102390226/

[yedidia]

17 hours ago, Dove said:

That's the irony...must have taken him a lot of nerve lol and who knows what kind of explaining he's going to do to his own lawyers.

Or he is just a good actor, like many state presidents, playing and saying what others tell him to do or say...  

Can anybody understanding Russian tell us if he refers to this family as JW ? I'm pretty sure he and his communication staff didn't even know that they were JW ! 

[bagwell1987]

That was a really good article Richard.

Our CBS this week showed the same attitude in Nicaragua as these Russians today. Para. 27- Nicaraguans were amazed that the Supreme Court had sided with the Witnesses. Until then, the influence of the clergy had been so strong that the Court avoided conflicts with them.

I wonder, since Putin isn't religious, what his intent is in the alliance with the ROC? There has to be some purpose.

I just looked a couple things up and found these to be interesting, at least I could understand them.

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-problem-with-putins-anti-religious-campaign/article/2003282

 

And then this one where, most of it sounded like blah, blah, blah to me but a few paragraphs sounded reasonable.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/putins-corrupted-orthodoxy/

The last sentence, hmm;

In Russia’s case, like Iran’s, we will not understand the state’s ideological motivations without appreciating that religious dimension.

[Araujo JW]

4 hours ago, Tortuga said:

That's my guess..

 

I wonder how that happened....

 

2 hours ago, yedidia said:

Or he is just a good actor, like many state presidents, playing and saying what others tell him to do or say...  

Can anybody understanding Russian tell us if he refers to this family as JW ? I'm pretty sure he and his communication staff didn't even know that they were JW ! 

 

Heads will roll! 

[TrueTomHarley]

This I have just posted on my own blog. I repost it here:

 

Only five weeks ago, Jehovah’s Witnesses were banned in Russia, a decision approved by their Supreme Court. Since then, a wave of persecution has ensued, not unlike the wave of persecution against American Witnesses in the wake of an unfavorable Supreme Court decision here - a wave that was even more intense, granted that it was during the more inflammatory times or World War II. Brothers in Russia have been assaulted, fired from their jobs, seen their property destroyed, and seen their children bullied by teachers. Ordinary, respectable people have felt licensed to behave as a mob, as happened everywhere under such circumstances.

And now comes a completely unexpected development from on high.

“May 31, 2017 in Moscow, at a meeting in the Kremlin, the president handed Valery and Tatiana Novik, Jehovah's Witnesses from Karelia, the Order of "Parental Glory". At the awarding ceremony was also attended by all six children Novikov.

“The Order is awarded to parents of large families, who are setting an example to strengthen the institution of the family and the upbringing of children, form a socially responsible family and lead a healthy lifestyle, provide a full and harmonious development of personality of children, a high level of care for their health, education, physical, spiritual and moral development.

“In reply, referring to the spiritual and moral development of children, Valery Novik quoted text from the Bible, which serves as a reference for it, both for the parents: "Train up a boy on the right path; he will not depart from it, even when you are old "(Proverbs 22: 6).”

 

 

 Look, I am probably all wet here, but it is just possible he is doing it to soften the blow against us and/or send a signal to intolerant ones that he is not with them.

We err when we vilify him, IMO. When we do that, we are simply following the lead of the media, and they are doing it mostly to undermine Trump. They never cared about it much before.

If you watch Putin through any eyes other than the Western media, he comports himself well. He does not come off as bellicose, sinister, or unreasonable. He has a quite appealing sense of humor. He is not a shoe-pounding Kruschev, by any means. He heads a system of government that restricts some freedoms, so he is loathed in the West &  and all the more so on account of Trump. 

Of course, these guys all have PR machines - we mustn't be naive - but he simply does not display the appearance of a thug, given the authoritarian form of government he heads. The unbridled freedom of Western democracy has not worked well for Russians, and his actions reflect a pushback against some of it. To be sure, I tend to think well of all persons, but he just does not strike me as a thug, notwithstanding that he can play hardball when he thinks he has to.

I remain hopeful, perhaps naively so, that he is not at heart one of the instigators - that he has gone along for the ride, but is troubled by the wave of violence against people he, as a career person, doesn't care for, but as a man, has nothing against and perhaps even regards with favor. Perhaps he is like the Persian king, suddenly taking interest in what he has paid scant attention to before, pondering what good thing should be done for Mordecai.

"How can he have paid scant interest to it before, what with 48 million letters?" someone wonders. Well, it's not as he though he has nothing else to do. Like all world leaders, he is beset by crises on all sides. And he must allow time for hockey. Imagine! Sixty some-odd years old and he plays hockey, smashing the younger players into the boards. No wonder they like him over there.

He is careful to keep ties close with the Orthodox Church, but he may, at some point, no longer want to rubberstamp everything they do. Russia is painted in a bad enough light internationally as it is - he does not want to supply proof positive that the neanderthal reports are true. He wants his country to take its rightful respected place among nations. He doesn't want to play hardball when there clearly is no reason for it.

A treasured theme among those who oppose us in Russia is that 'Jehovah's Witnesses break up families.' This is said because persons can be expelled from the religion for extreme or persistent, unapologetic violations of Christian modes of life as recorded in Scripture, and they cannot comprehend how people could possibly get so worked up over religion, which ought to be 'kept in its place.' It is all in what you value. Those same people can understand how people can get so worked up over politics, and they frequently did with regard to the latest Hillary/Trump election.

Does the Witness religion break up families? The President of Russia has perhaps declared where he stands on that issue. The appeal of Russian Witnesses to the Supreme Court is to be heard in July. Perhaps it will not be the rubber stamp most people anticipate. Perhaps it will follow the pattern of the U.S. Supreme Court in the days of Gobitus. I fact, I have little doubt the dignitaries in Russia are planning to overturn the ban right now, thinking that in so doing, they will screw up my announced book on the topic. Let them not be too smug. I am versatile and can adapt to any ending. Let them overturn the ban because it is the right thing to do, and not "Hey! Let's turn the tables on that idiot Tom Harley."

[tekmantwo]

2 hours ago, Araujo JW said:

 

 

Heads will roll! 

More like a polonium pellet in the neck...or perhaps a side order of polo soup, to go.... 

[tekmantwo]

 

So, I have a question. ..it's off topic but I am wondering what happened in post #3707?

Chuka quoted my post #3701 but it seems that something odd happened and some extra words were added to the quote.

 

 (Mr Putin Salvatoeremonies bring such good pele here)

 

I did not write that

Any ideas what happened? 

Edited June 7, 2017 by tekmantwo

[Tortuga]

48 minutes ago, tekmantwo said:

 

Hi ya So, I have a question. ..it's off topic but I am wondering what happened in post #3707?

Chuka quoted my post #3701 but it seems that something odd happened and some extra words were added to the quote.

 

 (Mr Putin Salvatoeremonies bring such good pele here)

 

I did not write that

Any ideas what happened? 

 

See answer below...

Chuka may have started typing in the wrong box..

[Bruceq]

6 hours ago, yedidia said:

Or he is just a good actor, like many state presidents, playing and saying what others tell him to do or say...  

Can anybody understanding Russian tell us if he refers to this family as JW ? I'm pretty sure he and his communication staff didn't even know that they were JW ! 

According to the English subtitles on  youtube Putin neither the brother nor Putin says Jehovah's Witnesses but Putin says some very remarkable things about this family such as  "very kind people" and "May God give you health and happiness" and to top that off he actually says :"you are worthy citizens of our country"

 

 I have to admit this is one of the strangest things I have ever witnessed. The President giving an award to extremist based on the exact opposite of what they are being accused of??? I'm not sure what to make of this...we will have to wait and see what unfolds but doesn't this remind you of what happened with Haman in the book of Esther? The exact opposite of what you would expect!!! Usually when something happens that is the exact opposite one would say "divine intervention" or miracle. I am not saying that is what this is but it is "very" unusual to say the least. In Prov. 21:1 it says Jehovah can change the heart of a King. Could this be happening?  We will have to wait and see but the appeal to the Supreme Court on 7/17/17 should be VERY interesting!

    Also we know the Bible says that ones "conduct" can even change the heart of an unbelieving mate. Would it also apply to ones "conduct" changing the mind of a World Ruler? If so he may not be the ONLY one to change their minds about Jehovah's Witnesses!

" A king’s heart is like streams of water in Jehovah’s handHe directs it wherever He pleases." Prov 21:1

 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bruceq

[alohapaulette]

It's obvious Putin is not the originator of the ban, but went along with it. It's Dvorkin and the Russian Orthodox Church pushing their agenda, not anticipating a conflict of what Putin had on his agenda.

[Tbs77]

Since most of us are baffled over this... Are we actually witnessing this scripture?
Proverbs 21:1 A king’s heart is like streams of water in Jehovah’s hand. He directs it wherever He pleases.

Amazing!
Oh and remember the "judge" scheduled the reconvening of the case around Memorial and Special Talk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[alohapaulette]

38 minutes ago, Tbs77 said:

Since most of us are baffled over this... Are we actually witnessing this scripture?
 

Or perhaps this scripture, Esther Ch. 3-7:

 

"Now when Haʹman saw that Morʹde·cai refused to bow low and prostrate himself to him, Haʹman became filled with rage.+ 6  But he despised the thought of doing away with* Morʹde·cai alone, for they had told him about Morʹde·cai’s people. So Haʹman began seeking to annihilate all the Jews who were in the entire realm of A·has·u·eʹrus, all of Morʹde·cai’s people

 

 In the first month, that is, the month of Niʹsan,* in the 12th year+ of King A·has·u·eʹrus, they cast Pur+ (that is, the Lot) before Haʹman to determine the day and the month, and it fell on the 12th month, that is, Aʹdar.*+ ⁸  Haʹman then said to King A·has·u·eʹrus: “There is a certain people scattered and dispersed among the peoples+ in all the provinces* of your realm,+ whose laws are different from those of all other peoples; and they do not obey the king’s laws, and it is not in the king’s interests to let them be. ⁹  If it pleases the king, let a decree be written that they be destroyed. I will pay 10,000 silver talents* to the officials to put into the royal treasury.

 

 So Haʹman took the attire and the horse, and he clothed Morʹde·cai+ and made him ride in the public square of the city and called out before him: “This is what is done for the man whom the king wishes to honor!”

 

 So the king and Haʹman+ came in to Queen Esther’s banquet. 2  The king said to Esther again on the second day during the banquet of wine: “What is your petition, Queen Esther? It will be granted you. And what is your request? Even to* the half of my kingdom, it will be done!”+ 3  Queen Esther answered: “If I have found favor with you, O king, and if it pleases the king, let my life* be granted as my petition, and my people+ as my request. 4  For we have been sold,+ I and my people, to be annihilated, killed, and destroyed.+ If we had simply been sold as male and female slaves, I would have kept silent. But the distress is not proper, for it will be damaging to the king."

 

It was all very dramatic and scary with wide publicity, but the outcome turned out favorable for Jehovah's people.

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by alohapaulette

[Old]

20 minutes ago, alohapaulette said:

Or perhaps this scripture, Esther Ch. 3-7:

 

"Now when Haʹman saw that Morʹde·cai refused to bow low and prostrate himself to him, Haʹman became filled with rage.+ 6  But he despised the thought of doing away with* Morʹde·cai alone, for they had told him about Morʹde·cai’s people. So Haʹman began seeking to annihilate all the Jews who were in the entire realm of A·has·u·eʹrus, all of Morʹde·cai’s people

 

 In the first month, that is, the month of Niʹsan,* in the 12th year+ of King A·has·u·eʹrus, they cast Pur+ (that is, the Lot) before Haʹman to determine the day and the month, and it fell on the 12th month, that is, Aʹdar.*+ ⁸  Haʹman then said to King A·has·u·eʹrus: “There is a certain people scattered and dispersed among the peoples+ in all the provinces* of your realm,+ whose laws are different from those of all other peoples; and they do not obey the king’s laws, and it is not in the king’s interests to let them be. ⁹  If it pleases the king, let a decree be written that they be destroyed. I will pay 10,000 silver talents* to the officials to put into the royal treasury.

 

 So Haʹman took the attire and the horse, and he clothed Morʹde·cai+ and made him ride in the public square of the city and called out before him: “This is what is done for the man whom the king wishes to honor!”

 

 So the king and Haʹman+ came in to Queen Esther’s banquet. 2  The king said to Esther again on the second day during the banquet of wine: “What is your petition, Queen Esther? It will be granted you. And what is your request? Even to* the half of my kingdom, it will be done!”+ 3  Queen Esther answered: “If I have found favor with you, O king, and if it pleases the king, let my life* be granted as my petition, and my people+ as my request. 4  For we have been sold,+ I and my people, to be annihilated, killed, and destroyed.+ If we had simply been sold as male and female slaves, I would have kept silent. But the distress is not proper, for it will be damaging to the king."

 

It was all very dramatic and scary with wide publicity, but the outcome turned out favorable for Jehovah's people.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Could be......... or not.  

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Bruceq said:

 Putin says some very remarkable things about this family such as  "very kind people" and "May God give you health and happiness" and to top that off he actually says :"you are worthy citizens of our country"

We will know more when we see who he gives the award to tomorrow. If it is an ISIS family, we can all fold up the tent.

 

Welcome, BruceQ. Good to see you & looking forward to your fine contributions. They use apostate spray here, and it does indeed keep them away.  I think it is not easy for the mods to do that, but it does keep them away.

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 6/6/2017 at 5:33 PM, Omo_Yeme said:

Many variables can be derived from this matter, but at the end of the day I'd like to think that ultimately, it is Jehovah who is maneuvering things along!  

Brother Novik is Esther and his Christian conscience is Mordecai: 'who is there knowing whether it is just for this circumstance that you are given opportunity to speak with the king?'

[kejedo]

A sister had a Knowledge book in Russian and asked me if I could place it. Met a Russian lady at a door and made an RV. Spoke to the husband. I asked if they would be interested in  reading  Bible based Material in Russian.  I used a couple of Russian phrases and said I would learn something more in Russian for when I came back. Went back today with the  "Knowledge" book in my hand and a new Russian phrase in my mind. They were not home. The husband told me on the second call that he is glad they are not living in Russia now. I'm not sure exactly that was referring to. I will  see if I can find this story in print.  It is very compelling. 

[Skye]

I know this event was first shared in this Russian ban forum, but has anyone taken notice of the exemplary Christian parents raising six children? The result of the children's Bible-based training, their healthy lifestyle and high moral standards did not escape the eyes and ears of the community they live in, leading to the parents receiving a presidential award. And the father gratefully acknowledges Jehovah's help. 

 

Shall we please stop the conversation here for a moment? There is a lot of good in this news item.