Amtrak Train Derails : Mass Casualty

[cricket246]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/18/amtrak-train-derails-near-seattle-onto-the-i-5-freeway.html

 

this is horrible! First day of service and they didnt test it?!?!? 45 ninutes into the first run and it derails.... 

[dove]

So many Amtrak accidents over the years..not a very good 'track' record..

[bagwell1987]

Wish they were more accurate in stating where this happened. It's in Lacy, about 2 hours South of Seattle. I know, it's close to Seattle but not really, it's right in same proximity to Olympia.

[Cherie]

I'm in ICU and am watching this on tv. It's sad but leads to nice conversations with the nurses..

 

I'm fine, just a little heart rhythm problem...

[rocket]

Conflicting early reports indicate either 6 or 7 died. 77 taken to hospital.

[Friends just call me Ross]

I texted this news report to my Brother Tom in Seattle. (Renton)

He thinks the weather may have had something to do with the derailment.

 

[DancesWithWife]

I have ridden Amtrak many times from  Portland to Olympia many times never a problem. It's nice Facebook has the ability for individuals to mark themselves safe. Very sad about the loss of life.

[DancesWithWife]

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article190312924.html

[Stavro]

4 hours ago, cricket246 said:

First day of service and they didnt test it?!?!?

 

A "new route" is simply a new list of stops, no different than a school bus stopping at a different set of houses than usual. Both the train and the tracks had a long history of reliability, so testing would have been pointless.

[bagwell1987]

1 minute ago, Stavro said:

 

A "new route" is simply a new list of stops, no different than a school bus stopping at a different set of houses than usual. Both the train and the tracks had a long history of reliability, so testing would have been pointless.

 

That's true, when you look at the schedule there's no new track, just a new schedule of stops. The train been there for a long time.

Not sure if it was the weather, it's quite mild. Maybe the overpass had a problem with it since it seems to be all on there.

[cricket246]

My big question, why don't trains have seatbelts?.... They said they will "look into it" to see if any  precautions can be taken in the future..... I wish these companies would lear from their mistakes rather than worry about cashflow...sigh..

[Friends just call me Ross]

Quote

A U.S. official who was briefed on the investigation also says preliminary signs indicate the Amtrak train may have struck something on the track before derailing. The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

 

The high-speed train was making its first public run on newly constructed tracks when it derailed, so the official said it was unlikely to be a maintenance issue. The new route was designed to speed up service by removing passenger trains from a route along Puget Sound that’s bogged down by curves, single-track tunnels and freight traffic.

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article190312924.html

 

Some of the news sources must have it all wrong.  There are so many conflicting statements.

[Stavro]

18 minutes ago, Friends just call me Ross said:

Some of the news sources must have it all wrong.  There are so many conflicting statements.

 

Here's the project page from the state Department of Transportation:

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/default.htm

This project reroutes passenger trains to an inland route.  The bypass is on an existing rail line that runs along the west side of Interstate 5 (I-5), from south Tacoma through Lakewood and DuPont. It reconnects back to the BNSF Railway main line near Nisqually, on the east side of I-5. It also adds a new Amtrak Cascades station in Tacoma's Freighthouse Square building.

[Tortuga]

The local news reported there might have been something on the track, I don't know if that is recent information or just sensational speculation..

 

Isn't there a forward camera to record the track?

[Qapla]

I agree this is tragic. It is sad when any are killed in accidents.

 

I enjoy riding the train and almost wish I had thought of applying to Amtrak for work back when I could have.

 

At the same time, have you ever noticed that, when something like this happens, the reaction is a bit exaggerated because several die at the same time in a single action. I mean, think about it, there are, on average, over 110 people killed each day in automobile accidents in the US (with an average of more than one person killed each day in Washington state) - but many of them go largely unreported.

 

On the other hand, an average of 600-700 die each year in accidents involving trains - and most of them are caused by people in cars trying to cross in front of trains. Actual death by derailment is rare - but, it sure makes the news!

[Friends just call me Ross]

On NBC's news tonight, they showed the curve.  The speed limit for that curve is just 30mph.  It is believed excessive speed may be responsible for the derailment.

[Friends just call me Ross]

On last night's earthquake forecast, Dutchsinse mentioned that the area where the derailment happened

is coincidentally in the middle of two areas that are currently swarming with microquakes from the ongoing 'slow slip' event.

 

He notices stuff like that.  

 

It's around 23 minutes into the video.

 

 

[GrumpysWife]

The news this morning said he was going around 80 miles per hr. 

[rocket]

Conflicting early reports indicate either 6 or 7 died. 77 taken to hospital.

 

As of this A.M. the Total confirmed dead is undetermined. Only 3 confirmed dead. Some train cars have not been searched as they are too unstable and some in hospital may not make it. This should change by end of day.

[Old]

I  find it strange that no mention has been made concerning the status of the engineer, injured? alive? or dead?

How many of the crew are stationed in the cab?

An inaugural train, lot's of publicity, you would think they would have scheduled their most experienced crew.

Do they have GPS that alerts to their location? The silence in these areas will start rumors of a coverup.

[Tortuga]

15 minutes ago, Old said:

Do they have GPS that alerts to their location

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/19/amtrak-line-lacked-positive-train-control-safety-system-official-says.html

[Old]

Amtrak has just announced that one of their employees was killed in the derailment.

[Qapla]

Aren't we glad that we belong to an Organization that puts safety above cost or speed. At any building project, there are daily safety meetings and safety reminders throughout the day. We are constantly reminded that we do NOT sacrifice safety just to save time and/or money.

 

According to some of the reports, the safety devices that would have possibly prevented this accident should/could have been installed several years ago - but - the railroad and Congress have repeatedly extended the deadline for the safety devices due to cost.

 

Sad!

[Stavro]

http://time.com/5078117/amtrak-derailment-track-curve/

 

Apparently the curve was eliminated on the original plans, but it was deemed too expensive to replace the tracks...

[digital_dreamer]

I’d place some of the blame on the false sense of security that technology presents to users/drivers.

 

Back in the day when you had full responsibility of the consequences of your actions, you stayed awake, alert, and attentive to your surroundings, knowing that it all depends on you. Now, with some technology embedded into the process, some are inclined to relax their guard and assume critical decisions will be made for them. The part that confuses many is: how much awareness and control does the technology have and at what point should a human take over? Unfortunately, that depends. It depends on how the product was designed and how advanced it is. Even different versions of the same product have varying levels of safety features, usually because of different price points. Should that even be permitted?

 

Witness the confusion some users had regarding their Tesla cars being (not) fully capable of autonomous driving and dying as a result. The company had to clarify what the cars’ capabilities truly were and highlight what they cannot do.

 

I find the growth of the “self-driving” vehicle market tremendously risky and self-serving. There are numerous scenarios that must be accounted for and programmed into the system. Are all scenarios considered? Can you guarantee that? If it encounters a unusual situation, can you trust that the program will respond appropriately at speed? If not, is there time to assume control? Are the object detection devices able to recognize all relevant objects in the path (or coming into the path) under all conditions and respond appropriately? And on and on it goes.

 

As for Amtrak, I really don’t understand how an engineer can be at the controls and not know that the train is speeding or going too fast for the curve. Surely, he must know the curve was approaching and what speed was appropriate for it. Right? Or, was this just another case of “I assumed the train would take care of itself?”

Edited December 23, 2017 by digital_dreamer
Clarification