Stephen C Myer Books and ID org

[Friends just call me Ross]

On 9/29/2018 at 6:51 PM, bohemian said:

.ReturnofGdHypth.pdf

 

Here is a link to Stephen Meyer,s Essay The Return of the God Hypothesis.

Macromolecular Machines are so remarkable, it makes random chance belief INEXCUSABLE.

Quote

EVIDENCE OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN IN BIOLOGY

...Molecular Machines: Nevertheless, the rumblings about design have begun to spread to biology. In 1998, for example, the leading journal, Cell, featured a special issue on Macromolecular Machines. Molecular machines are incredibly complex devices that all cells use to process information, build proteins, and move materials back and forth across their membranes. Bruce Alberts, President of the National Academy of Sciences, introduced this issue with an article entitled, The Cell as a Collection of Protein Machines. In his article, Alberts admits that: We have always underestimated cells . . . . The entire cell can be viewed as a factory that contains an elaborate network of interlocking assembly lines, each of which is composed of a set of large protein machines . . . Why do we call the large protein assemblies that underlie cell function protein machines? Precisely because, like machines invented by humans to deal efficiently with the macroscopic world these protein assemblies contain highly coordinated moving parts (1998: 291). Alberts notes that molecular machines strongly resemble machines designed by human engineers, although as an orthodox neo-Darwinist he denies any role for actual, as opposed to apparent, design in the origin of these systems.

Quote

https://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/article/molecular-machines-that-defy-darwin/

MOLECULAR MACHINES THAT DEFY DARWIN

WHEN DOGMA DOES NOT EXPLAIN REALITY, WHAT IS A TRUE BELIEVER TO DO?

 

A molecular machine, according to an article in the journal Accounts of Chemical Research, is “an assemblage of parts that transmit forces, motion, or energy from one to another in a predetermined manner.” A 2004 article in An­nual Review of Biomedical Engineering asserted that “these machines are generally more efficient than their macro-scale counterparts,” further noting that “countless such machines exist in nature.” Indeed, a single research project in 2006 reported the discovery of over 250 new molecular machines in yeast alone!

 

Molecular machines have posed a stark challenge to those who seek to understand them in Darwinian terms as the products of an undirected process. In his 1996 book Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolu­tion, biochemist Michael Behe explained the surprising discovery that life is based upon machines:

“Shortly after 1950 science advanced to the point where it could determine the shapes and properties of a few of the molecules that make up living organisms. Slowly, painstakingly, the structures of more and more biological molecules were elucidated, and the way they work inferred from countless experiments. The cumulative results show with piercing clarity that life is based on machines—machines made of molecules! Molecular machines haul cargo from one place in the cell to another along “highways” made of other molecules, while still others act as cables, ropes, and pulleys to hold the cell in shape. Machines turn cellular switches on and off, sometimes killing the cell or causing it to grow. Solar-powered machines capture the energy of photons and store it in chemicals. Electrical ma­chines allow current to flow through nerves. Manufacturing machines build other molecular machines, as well as themselves. Cells swim using machines, copy themselves with machinery, ingest food with machinery. In short, high­ly sophisticated molecular machines control every cellular process. Thus, the details of life are finely calibrated and the machinery of life enormously complex.”

 

Behe then posed the question, “Can all of life be fit into Darwin’s theory of evolution?” and answered: “The com­plexity of life’s foundation has paralyzed science’s attempt to account for it; molecular machines raise an as-yet im­penetrable barrier to Darwinism’s universal reach.”

 

Even those who disagree with Behe’s answer to that question have marveled at the complexity of molecular ma­chines. In 1998, former president of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences Bruce Alberts wrote the introductory arti­cle to an issue of Cell, one of the world’s top biology journals, celebrating molecular machines. Alberts praised the “speed,” “elegance,” “sophistication,” and “highly organized activity” of “remarkable” and “marvelous” structures in­side the cell. He went on to explain what inspired such words:

 

The entire cell can be viewed as a factory that contains an elaborate network of interlocking assembly lines, each of which is composed of a set of large protein machines. . . . Why do we call the large protein assemblies that underlie cell function protein machines? Precisely because, like machines invented by humans to deal efficiently with the macroscopic world, these protein assemblies contain highly coordinated moving parts.

 

Likewise, in 2000 Marco Piccolini wrote in Nature Reviews Molecular Cell Biology that “extraordinary biological machines realize the dream of the seventeenth century scientists… that ‘machines will be eventually found not only unknown to us but also unimaginable by our mind.’ ” He notes that modern biological machines “surpass the expec­tations of the early life scientists.”

 

A few years later, a review article in the journal Biological Chemistry demonstrated the difficulty evolutionary sci­entists have faced when trying to understand molecular machines. Essentially, they must deny their scientific intui­tions when trying to grapple with the complexity of the fact that biological structures appear engineered to the sche­matics of blueprints:

Molecular machines, although it may often seem so, are not made with a blueprint at hand. Yet, biochemists and molecular biologists (and many scientists of other disciplines) are used to thinking as an engineer, more precisely a reverse engineer. But there are no blueprints … ‘Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution’: we know that Dobzhansky (1973) must be right. But our mind, despite being a product of tinkering itself strangely wants us to think like engineers.

But do molecular machines make sense in the light of undirected Darwinian evolution? Does it make sense to deny the fact that machines show all signs that they were designed? Michael Behe argues that in fact molecular ma­chines meet the very test that Darwin posed to falsify his theory, and indicate intelligent design.

Yup!  INEXCUSABLE. 

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Another book by Michael Behe: Darwin Devolves

If you pre-order (and probably pay) , you get access to videos.

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/11/darwin-devolves-preorder-behes-new-book-plus-video-course-on-intelligent-design/

We get our videos for free! (Well, voluntary donations)

Older {waiting for wiser}

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

There is some kind of freebie download. Don't know how good it is, but I thought I would share:
There's a FREE 8-session discussion guide available for the book Darwin's Doubt!
It contains chapter summaries and discussion questions perfect for small groups and book clubs, or just to help you individually! Download it here: http://bit.ly/2S4MjiM

Older {waiting for wiser}

[Cynefin]

I've read many of their books as well. Great stuff! 

 

I have Behe's new book on pre-order also. 

 

Thanks for the additional recommendations! 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Amazon has this book on sale today!

Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design 

Reprint Edition, Kindle Edition

by Stephen C. Meyer  (Author)

 

Only $1.99 for Kindle Edition. You can just download it on the Kindle App for Android or Apple devices. Not sure if this is on sale beyond today.

 

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Thanks for sharing that. I highly recommend it. There is also a DVD that depicts Stephen Meyers thoughts expressed in this book.
He has a new book coming out later this year called: The Return of the God Hypothesis (Due Aug 2019).
Available for pre-order now on Amazon.


Just Older

[Beggar for the Spirit]

You are welcome Tony. 

I felt a little strange mentioning the sale of this book, but because it was such a great price I figured that some who have expressed interest in "Intelligent Design" books would be interested in this popular one. Most books are $9-10 at minimum and many are much higher, so I wanted to share this bargain with my friends. I appreciate it when others let me know about good deals, whether books, electronics, etc. Even Tortuga let me know that there was a good deal this month on JWtalk for "unlimited" posts for the low price of $199.99! So I snatched up that bargain right away!

     

[jayrtom]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:45 PM, TonyWenz said:

Another book by Michael Behe: Darwin Devolves

If you pre-order (and probably pay) , you get access to videos.

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/11/darwin-devolves-preorder-behes-new-book-plus-video-course-on-intelligent-design/

We get our videos for free! (Well, voluntary donations)

Older {waiting for wiser}
 

Thank you for this info. I just bought the book (the videos weren't available as that information is outdated)

I also bought the audible version which is with 50% discount

[jayrtom]

3 hours ago, TonyWenz said:

Thanks for sharing that. I highly recommend it. There is also a DVD that depicts Stephen Meyers thoughts expressed in this book.
He has a new book coming out later this year called: The Return of the God Hypothesis (Due Aug 2019).
Available for pre-order now on Amazon.


Just Older
 

According to Amazon the kindle version is only due on Abril 2020... I only buy kindle books now

 

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Thank you for this info. I just bought the book (the videos weren't available as that information is outdated)
I also bought the audible version which is with 50% discount

Hope you like the book.
Yes, the video offer was posted Nov last, so it has expired. But I did invest in it and got a 40 video course and a certificate when I passed! How cool.

Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

... Even Tortuga let me know that there was a good deal this month on JWtalk for "unlimited" posts for the low price of $199.99! So I snatched up that bargain right away!
     

That Tortuga is always looking out for you... (read: your wallet)

Just Older

[rbrown1205]

Here is a video that addresses the question of what has to happen for life to come about by random chance.

 

[rbrown1205]

On 6/7/2018 at 9:49 AM, jayrtom said:

Hi

Nice topic. I too have read Meyer's Book on ID and found it excelent. I particularly liked the argument about probabilistics resources (that I think you mentioned on the first post)

I think there is no way to counteract the power of this argument: For instance, it's very difficult to launch 16 dices and all of them show the same number. But we can increase the probabilistic resources of that event which is done by lanching the 16 dices several times consecutively. There is an amount of times that we launch the dices that makes the event of giving the same number, probable! (we would call it probable if the probability of the event is at least 50%)

Now, someone could say the same for the event of Life coming by chance: Giving enough time,  an extremely unlikly event such as this would become very likely. But then we can estimate the amount of probabilistic resources that are available for this event by answering this questions:

How much was available for the universe to launch the dices?

How many times could we launch the dices per unit of time?

And other questions like this...

It's possible to know the probability of a single aminoacid appear by chance 

We know also for how many years the universe exists

Also how many particles are there in visible universe (there is no point in thinking in multiverses or unseeable particules because they can't interect with the others within the study)

Then the calculation considering how many interactions are possible between all the particules in universe for all the time the universe has been in existence still gives an amount of probabilistic resources that clearly atates how unlikly it is for a single aminoacid to appear from simple chance (let alone the DNA)

 

 

As for the questions you pose in this post I think that the DNA has the code built in for every type of cell. When the DNA is being read each sequence gives the instruction to make what ever is needed - Search for replication and transcription

Probability and Combinatorics - lovely stuff.  I have taught that...sigh...

I found a remarkable you tube on the probability of amino acid-based protein molecules forming themselves by chance in any possible universe.  At one point you may notice that with 14 billion years that they used to play with, they ran out of time.    But that doesn't faze the die-hard evolutionist, does it?

 

 

Origin: Probability of a Single Protein Forming by Chance - YouTube

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by rbrown1205

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Also mentioned in our old Creation Book (ce 1985)
The number is so large is it beyond my imagination.
I do like the modern graphics and comparisons that DI put up.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101985014

Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Here is a video that addresses the question of what has to happen for life to come about by random chance.

The 'Slug' race was my favourite part of the DVD when I bought it. However, I did remember it wrong. I thought the slug traversed our Milky Way, but it actually travels the full extent of our 'known observable universe.' Way more impressive. And this was just to form one chain of 150 proteins. The chances were about 10^164.
The reference (ce Chapt 4 paragraph 18), lists the chance for life at 10^40,000!
To me it's the definition of impossible.

Thanks for the reminder@rbrown1205

Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

An interesting read, but as always, share the link cautiously

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/darwin-devolves/

Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

It requires blind faith to believe evolution...

Just Older

[rbrown1205]

54 minutes ago, TonyWenz said:

It requires blind faith to believe evolution...

Just Older
 

Wow, thanks for that review of Behe's book.  I am a little uneasy about the man - he is becoming the new darling of the ID movement, and I understand that he thinks that life came from aliens who had the mechanism to send it here.  

 

Interestingly I have been reading a series of lectures by Stephen Hawking on a site that he set up before he died (or maybe his estate or family did) and one of them addressed the difficulties involved in aliens sending life over the lifeless expanse of space.  One would think that his logic had inferred that a greater than usual Intelligence with an interest in bringing life here was responsible.  It is called Life in the Universe, and I don't want to leave a link here, but it is easy to find.

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

The 'Discovery Institute' do have some differences between themselves. From what I remember when doing the Behe 40 part video course, he said he is a 'theist'.
But Behe allows other influences like aliens (or God) to use some evolution to bump things along.
The DVD I have of Stephen Meyer, he has a more traditional view. Introducing aliens to be involved (or even 'multi-verses') does not overcome the complexity of chance. It just pushes the question up to another level, where the same complexity of chance exists. So he believes science supports (and points to) intelligent design.
But then Meyer is also big on the euthanasia debate.... oh well...

Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Here is a YouTube clip that fairly well illustrates the principle that was explained in our earliest books:

If you found a fully stocked, functional house in a dessert, what would you conclude? Chance or intelligent design...

Looks like the Discovery Institute is pitching to young thinking minds in a punchy fast moving video clip series.

Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Science Uprising YouTube clips.

I had a quick look at the other episodes.

These are worth a look:

The Trailer:

Episode 2, The Mind & Free will:

Episode 3, DNA and programming

Episode 4, Fine Tuning (see above post)

Of course, the hard part for us is if we introduce a bible student to this series, and later it changes direction, or introduces different ideologies, then we will hit a speed bump in the student's advancement.


Just Older

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

 

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Episode 5 is up from the ID group. This seems a real quick moving and solid bit of editing along with convincing arguments.

I am not a fan of the monkey masks. I 'get' the idea, but it does not resonate with me personally.

 

While I am enjoying the ride of these videos, I am wondering where the catch will be. Will they solicit for money?  Will they push other ideas that suit them? Ideas that are not compatible with F&DS direction?

 

Please view and share with discretion. 

 

 

From their resources:

 

"The expert witnesses here are synthetic organic chemist James Tour, protein chemist Douglas Axe, and philosopher of science Stephen Meyer. Professor Tour is a personality to be reckoned with, pouring steely scorn on his colleagues who study, and mislead, about the origin of life. 

Fallacious, Ridiculous

“All of these little pictures of molecules coming together to form the first cell are fallacious, are ridiculous,” says Tour. “The origin of life community has not been honest.” Claims by Craig Venter and others are little more than hype. What about claims that material processes at the dawn of life had time on their side? No, the opposite is true. Claims by researchers of having created “proto-cells” are like saying you’ve created a “proto-turkey” by warming some cold cuts, broth, and a few feathers.

Dr. Axe and Dr. Meyer clarify both the complexity of the object needing to be explained — the first cell — and the delusion of imagining that the “functional, digital information” in DNA could have been authored with no intelligence having played any part in it.

There is some tough cricism here, notably of researchers in the origin of life community. They seem to be fooling themselves, and us along with them. Humans are good at that. Together we’re under a poisonous spell, scientists and the lay public alike..."

Edited July 5, 2019 by TonyWenz

[jayrtom]

On 6/29/2019 at 3:25 AM, TonyWenz said:

Of course, the hard part for us is if we introduce a bible student to this series, and later it changes direction, or introduces different ideologies, then we will hit a speed bump in the student's advancement.

Because of the danger you describe, I guess the best way to proceed is to use this information to enrich our knowledge of the subject only and not use it as witnessing material

Edited July 5, 2019 by jayrtom

[Cynefin]

Thanks for posting all these resources. 

 

I have read a lot of Behe's stuff, but I never heard he believed in aliens as a possible source of life! 👽