Mass shooting in New Zealand

[Thesauron]

Yes it was organized it had been organized for over year or maybe even two, but the target originally was not NZ, it is only in recent months he decided to make it a NZ based target.
 
So I'm guessing other plans either by the group he's associated with (even if its not an official group there was more than one) or by other groups.
 
 

He had planned the NZ attack for a couple of months ago, and decided that NZ were to be the target some years ago. Usually these people work alone, or in collaboration with a cell consisting of 2 or 3 people. There is usually no centralised organisation behind it. This form of right wing (or, alt-right) extremist cells without a leader has been the rule since at least the 80s. This has the explicit purpose of making justice harder to accomplish. There is no organisation to ban or take down, no leaders to charge.

[Cushi]

20 minutes ago, Guri said:

Unfortunately no safe place in the world any more. (Comp. Luke 21:26).😟

Yes, nowhere is safe. Luke 21:26 applies to the great tribulation 

[Stormswift]

Brother Johan - We don't know yet if its attached to a bigger cell - NZ Police has not even released his name let alone any other details. You are getting ahead of yourself.

 

The only reason we know his name is that he released it himself on social media. NZ was not the original target - his own words, but then I'm not inclined to believe anything he says.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Stormswift

[hatcheckgirl]

This terrorist's modus operandi and message echo those of former white supremacists - pick a 'soft' target to make the world listen.  NZ has been one country that has bent over backwards to accommodate many new migrants from Muslim countries.  It was much easier for them to migrate there and then become NZ citizens.  From there they can enter Australia legally without a visa, as Australia and NZ have an arrangement for freer movement between our citizens.

 

This may be a factor too, this fear of being "swamped" by immigrants using NZ as a back door.  Immigration is a very hot potato here with our conservative government , and has fanned the hatred against migrants from Middle East and Asia, some but not all who had been arriving illegally by boat into Australian waters (and the many others who enter on tourist visas by plane, then overstay their welcome).  It's politicized by both major parties to score points - but all they do is foster more hatred against both camps.

 

Our broadcast this month and recent WT studies on neutrality are sounding in my mind.  May we be in a position to help those really looking for answers.

[Stormswift]

4 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

This terrorist's modus operandi and message echo those of former white supremacists - pick a 'soft' target to make the world listen.  NZ has been one country that has bent over backwards to accommodate many new migrants from Muslim countries.  It was much easier for them to migrate there and then become NZ citizens.  From there they can enter Australia legally without a visa, as Australia and NZ have an arrangement for freer movement between our citizens.

 

This may be a factor too, this fear of being "swamped" by immigrants using NZ as a back door.  Immigration is a very hot potato here with our conservative government , and has fanned the hatred against migrants from Middle East and Asia, some but not all who had been arriving illegally by boat into Australian waters (and the many others who enter on tourist visas by plane, then overstay their welcome).  It's politicized by both major parties to score points - but all they do is foster more hatred against both camps.

 

Our broadcast this month and recent WT studies on neutrality are sounding in my mind.  May we be in a position to help those really looking for answers.

Yes very timely ... we weren't able to set up carts in the square where we have them normally, as people were gathering for rallies to unite races ... we got the vibe very quickly that being there was not wise. 

 

There is some interest in people in a location in Dunedin, have heard it twice now, but still not clear, so it does sound like they are in full alert still and have not ruled out that these three arrested are the only ones. I hope they are, but in this time of the end expect the unexpected.

[Thesauron]

Brother Johan - We don't know yet if its attached to a bigger cell - NZ Police has not even released his name let alone any other details. You are getting ahead of yourself.
 
The only reason we know his name is that he released it himself on social media. NZ was not the original target - his own words, but then I'm not inclined to believe anything he says.

This is how these alt-right terrorists usually work these days, according to terrorism experts. If there is a larger cell than one or perhaps two or three, I’d be surprised. They do get inspired by one another, though. This guy claimed he was inspired by Breivik.

[Stormswift]

And the Canadian Shooter yes ... but it was organized though which is all we have said according to the facts that were given by the shooter himself - organized via a larger cell we don't know ... we cannot rely on past events to guage something that is unprecedented as there are rumours and have been for some time that NZ is the hub of many 'sleepers' but this again is just rumour ... time will tell.

And, really, the devastating result is the same. Being the small country New Zealand they would be unwise to presume that this is all that is involved ... we are isolated and need to consider all options as unlikely some of them may seem.

[hatcheckgirl]

I don't think it is organised in the sense of a hierachy etc.  But it was planned, and there is an ideology these ones all follow.  It comes from the lowest ebb of human hatred with a direct link to satan.  They have inspiration from every hateful leader from Hitler to KKK to those who set up the Islamic extremist organisations of Taliban and Isis etc.  Satan's world is never organised, we know that.  But they do follow the biddings of their leader, and as such there is quite a predictable, albeit shocking, pattern.

[Nzer133]

Some field service experience:

 

We have heard from brothers in Auckland that Friday night (the day of the attack) police were stationed at most, if not, all mosques. Multiple field service groups were warned of use of literature carts as it can be dangerous. Either householders would be really happy to hear a comforting message or they would be very angry that we are talking about God at this moment in time.

 

We were able to setup a cart at our popular marketplace 6am in the morning. People were very pleasant with us.

 

Various field service groups across our circuit and in Auckland focused on what comforting scriptures we could use.

 

Some included:

”We are here to share a positive scripture in light of yesterday’s events- Rev 21:4.”

”Genesis 6:5, 6- How do you think God feels about what has and is happening? Hurt. Like us.”

”Pr 17:22 says “a crushed spirit saps one’s strength.” That’s how we feel right now. But the hope the Bible gives makes us to see up”

 

New Zealand, is not a big place. The littlest of news here is the biggest of news here. Just a few months ago, one young tourist girl disappeared and the whole of New Zealand felt heavily affected by the whole ordeal (later became a murder case.) Any news here is big news. New Zealand feels like they have lost their innocence and their “pure” image.

 

I have met so many householders who would tell us that nothing will ever happen in New Zealand. It is faraway from everyone. People come to our country to escape the worlds problems. They see New Zealand as a paradise. A bubble. And that changed yesterday.

 

Some Brothers and Sisters did not have the strength to go out in the ministry today. So we didn’t spend too much in the house-to-house work. It was a time to check in with our calls (return visits), friends and family. 

[dove]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

‘Chosen’ makes it sound like it’s organised. It is not. But they are inspired by a similar framework of ideas.

I didn’t ‘choose’ the word ‘chosen’ I’m quoting the media, which we all know can’t be trusted to know what they’re talking about and shouldn’t be quoted on anything because we all know they are wrong and untrustworthy on what they say..

its the thought that counts and I was just picking up on what Stormswift said that NZ was an unexpected place for this to happen and I think that’s what the news was saying too..

[dove]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

He had planned the NZ attack for a couple of months ago, and decided that NZ were to be the target some years ago. Usually these people work alone, or in collaboration with a cell consisting of 2 or 3 people. There is usually no centralised organisation behind it. This form of right wing (or, alt-right) extremist cells without a leader has been the rule since at least the 80s. This has the explicit purpose of making justice harder to accomplish. There is no organisation to ban or take down, no leaders to charge.

Could you explain the difference in ‘decided that NZ were to be the target’  and ‘chosen’?

[New World Explorer]

8 hours ago, Stormswift said:

Just been informed by an elder that there is a muslim rally on at the same place we have carts this morning, have been instructed to only set them up if we can be viewed as separate from the rally - if we can't then don't set up.

I wouldn't go there at all, I would engage in RV's etc... not good day for NZ

[Stormswift]

We didn't - we went down and looked too many marquees too close to our spot - so we went and did a study.

[Bek]

7 hours ago, Bjern said:

Because of Islamophobia.

If you mean "fear of Islam' by that term, I agree with you. Islam is a dangerous politico‐religious ideology. 

 

Why blame them for attacks? Because they have a reputation as those who kill in the name of their God. 

 

Can you name me one religious group today that kills in the name of God?

 

Can you name one religious group that kills apostates?

 

They brought it on themselves and they should not be surprised when they are suspected or blamed for violence. 

 

They are the most violent and intolerant group of people I know. 

 

I know what I am talking about because I live among them. 

 

You and Johan should come and live among them and see for yourself. 

 

It is easy to sit in a cosy Western country and repeat the liberal and Islamic narrative of "Muslims being hated and under attack". 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Bek

[Stormswift]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

If you mean "fear of Islam' by that term, I agree with you. Islam is a dangerous politico‐religious ideology. 

 

Why blame them for attacks? Because they have a reputation as those who kill in the name of their God. 

 

Can you name me one religious group today that kills in the name of God?

 

Can you name one religious group that kills apostates?

 

They brought it on themselves and they should not be surprised when they are suspected or blamed for violence. 

 

They are the most violent and intolerant group of people I know. 

 

I know what I am talking about because I live among them. 

 

You and Johan should come and live among them and see for yourself. 

 

It is easy to sit in a cosy Western country and repeat the liberal and Islamic narrative of "Muslims being hated and under attack". 

 

 

Might pay to be a bit more neutral on this subject ... we certainly abhor the atrocities - even ONE death is too many ... but we need to keep our views completely neutral, whether you are right or wrong. 

[New World Explorer]

Friends, I am reading the comments and can sense non-neutral views and comments.

Let's not go there at all, no point.

We belong to different domain, and what is happening in "satan's domain" we know it very well.

It's a fine line between reporting news and "attaching" our viewpoint to the news... let's not cross our neutral line

[lord-360]

1 minute ago, Gregexplore said:

Friends, I am reading the comments and can sense non-neutral views and comments.

Let's not go there at all, no point.

We belong to different domain, and what is happening in "satan's domain" we know it very well.

It's a fine line between reporting news and "attaching" our viewpoint to the news... let's not cross our neutral line

What I'm sensing especially as a tendency in myself is how easy it is to take a side and how difficult it is to be completely neutral. Through what I see as unintentional "taking sides" is terms and thoughts that you can almost tell which news channel someone got their news from. It's shocking to me how biased news sources are and how politicised they are. I think that became most obvious on any news articles about us a witnesses. How timely march broadcast is for me. With how many slants and takes we are hit by from news sources and social media, you can really see just how much satans world subtlety influences our thinking.

 

A big reminder of this for me that will always stick with me is growing up as a teen post 9/11. Without realizing it till many years later I had become fearful and biased towards any one that "looked" Muslim. This wasn't intended or sought out, but came through what I now realise what viewing of news as I grew up. Seeing 24/7 news networks propagate fear and hatred had a influence on me growing up that I had to correct thanks to some strong watchtower articles. I think I need to watch the march broadcast again for myself and try to be the most neutral I can until tragedy and suffering like we are seeing are no more.

[Thesauron]

2 hours ago, Bek said:

You and Johan should come and live among them and see for yourself.

We have a large Muslim population here. Many of my return visits are Muslims. Generally, they are as upset as the rest of us when so called Muslims commit atrocities. 

 

One if them says he is worried each time something bad happens that s muslim will be involved, because automatically people will treat him personally as responsible. We need to quit taking a stand against a whole group of people of a certain religion or ethnicity as if they are more culpable than anyone else for the evil in Satan’s world.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Thesauron

[Thesauron]

10 hours ago, Dove said:

Could you explain the difference in ‘decided that NZ were to be the target’  and ‘chosen’?

It sounds as if there were options, that is, as if he was chosen by someone to commit this in his country. 

 

10 hours ago, Dove said:

I didn’t ‘choose’ the word ‘chosen’ I’m quoting the media, which we all know can’t be trusted to know what they’re talking about and shouldn’t be quoted on anything because we all know they are wrong and untrustworthy on what they say..
its the thought that counts and I was just picking up on what Stormswift said that NZ was an unexpected place for this to happen and I think that’s what the news was saying too..

Expect the unexpected. Where people are afraid and feel threatened, there are always idiots who will resort to violence.

Regarding media, it is a political standpoint these days that they cannot be trusted, and is ‘fake news’ - the enemy, even. Don’t fall for it. Use your good sense instead. Take in reports from several viewpoints.

[Thesauron]

11 hours ago, youthintheministry23 said:

I have met so many householders who would tell us that nothing will ever happen in New Zealand. It is faraway from everyone. People come to our country to escape the worlds problems. They see New Zealand as a paradise. A bubble. And that changed yesterday.

In the US, this happened with the killing of President Kennedy. In Sweden it happened with the 1986 murder of Prime Minister Palme. In Norway with the Breivik murders.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Dismal_Bliss
Removed insensitive wording

[Bek]

26 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

We have a large Muslim population here. Many of my return visits are Muslims. Generally, they are as upset as the rest of us when so called Muslims commit atrocities. 

 

One if them says he is worried each time something bad happens that s muslim will be involved, because automatically people will treat him personally as responsible. We need to quit taking a stand against a whole group of people of a certain religion or ethnicity as if they are more culpable than anyone else for the evil in Satan’s world.

Yes, a small minority of Muslims living among you in the most liberal country on earth where they have to adapt and integrate in order to survive and be accepted. Living in a majority Muslim country is a completely different experience. Violence is not an individual thing chosen by some "weirdo". It is written in their book and part of their faith. 

 

For example, a few days ago, a brother was preaching in a remote province of my country and he got surrounded by a mob some of who shouted "stone him". They filmed it and posted on Youtube. Today I have found another video, a continuation of the first one, where a man was telling inaccurate info about us. Then I read the comments below it and about 30 per cent of them called for "death to JWs". 

 

Anyway, I am sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me. I should try to be neutral on the subject. I do not hate Muslims, but I am angry with their faith-motivated violence. 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Bek

[Bek]

After some thought about your comments on neutrality, I realised what you were implying. In no way was I approving of the massacre or gloating over the death of Muslims. I want to make it clear that I condemn it in the strongest terms and do not wish it on any group even members of ISIS. I feel sorry for those killed and their families and hope that police will deal with the culprit. I am against any violence be it from a Muslim or a white supremacist or anyone else for that matter. 

 

So please understand my previous comments above in general context, that is my anger about religiously-motivated violence.

 

   

Edited March 16, 2019 by Bek

[Thesauron]

Yes, a small minority of Muslims living among you in the most liberal country on earth where they have to adapt and integrate in order to survive and be accepted. Living in a majority Muslim country is a completely different experience. Violence is not an individual thing chosen by some "weirdo". It is written in their book and part of their faith. 
 
For example, a few days ago, a brother was preaching in a remote province of my country and he got surrounded by a mob some of who shouted "stone him". They filmed it and posted on Youtube. Today I have found another video, a continuation of the first one, where a man was telling inaccurate info about us. Then I read the comments below it and about 30 per cent of them called for "death to JWs". 
 
Anyway, I am sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me. I should try to be neutral on the subject. I do not hate Muslims, but I am angry with their faith-motivated violence. 
 

What you are describing are idiots living in failed societies. All part of Satan’s world. Remember that even in western societies, people have hated us, tried to commit violence against us, banned us. And when people comments about us online or elsewhere, it is usually negative. We can get some protection, though, from the law.

[Dages]

One more step toward the GT and our deliverance.

[Guri]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

I do not hate Muslims, but I am angry with their faith-motivated violence. 

I do understand the frustration. We as Jehovah’s people don’t hate anyone but we hate the bad things others do. Inspired words encourage us: 

 

«’Hate what is bad, and love what is good, Let justice prevail in the city gate’».

 

We not avenge yourselves but yield place to the wrath; for it is written «Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.»

 

We can only pray to Jehovah to give us strong faith and endurance. We well know that «the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever»