Declawing cats

[bohemian]

According to the BBC news, declawing cats is very common in the USA, (it is illegal in the UK and most of Europe). Anyone able to give any context to this?  It seems a very cruel practice.

[pnutts]

Was common in Canada, however lately most vets refuse to declaw cats.

[Poly Ester]

22 minutes ago, bohemian said:

According to the BBC news, declawing cats is very common in the USA, (it is illegal in the UK and most of Europe). Anyone able to give any context to this?  It seems a very cruel practice.

It's a Barbaric practice

[dove]

I never forgave myself for doing it 

[Qapla]

Some people who have "house cats" that never go outside elect to have them declawed to keep them from doing so much damage to the house/furniture.

 

Don't know if I would say it "is very common in the USA"

 

We were given a cat many years ago that was declawed. We live on 30 acres in the country. We were told not to let her outside since "she cannot defend herself". We did this for quite a while - but, even though she could not tear up things with her claws, she developed the habit of urinating on things - like my clothes and our bed.

 

We ended up putting her outside. She lived for several more years with no problems.

 

We have never declawed any of our cats - they are all outside cats.

[Shawnster]

Our 2 cats are declawed in the front.  They have their back claws just in case they were to ever get out of the house and need to defend themselves.  They are completely indoor cats and anytime they've stepped outside has been brief and unintentional.  They're both 17 or 18 years old.  One has stage 3 kidney disease and I have to give her 150ml of fluid by injection twice a week to flush her kidneys.  

[tekmantwo]

1 minute ago, Shawnster said:

Our 2 cats are declawed in the front.  They have their back claws just in case they were to ever get out of the house and need to defend themselves

My little rescue, Miss Kitty, was declawed by her previous guardian.

 

Even with no claws, and one tooth broken off, she still manages to draw blood quite often when we play a little rough. Its ok, she needs to be the winner every once in a while...

 

I think its a horrible thing to do to cats, they literally pull the claws, and a section of paw, clean off.

That puts tail docking of pups at a distant 2nd place...imho.

 

 

[pnutts]

We have a 17 year old orange tabby. He was declawed on the front when we got him 16 years ago.

I doubt he will live out the year - however we thought we had lost him before and he bounced back.

He panics sometimes when I leave the apt - even with my wife still at home.

 

They sure become part of your family, even if they want fed at 6:30 am thru midnight or later.

[GeordieGirl]

This is a subject that pains me greatly and makes me feel sick.  It is barbaric and inhumane and as Tim says, docking tails (now outlawed in Australia) comes in second to this.   

The only reason I can think that people do this is because they don't want their cats to use their precious furniture as scratching posts , which is why scratching posts are available to buy. And then you train your cats to use the posts and not the furniture. 

 

It does seem to be quite a common practice in the US as a few of my not very many US FB 'friends' seem to indulge in the practice and it is from them I first heard of it.

 

Not done in Australia, thank goodness.

[Myew]

Lemme give you an example. You know how apes walk on all four using their knuckles? That's quadrupedal digitigrade, whereas cats are full digitigrades.

Declawing a cat is functionally the same as cutting off the tips of your fingers up to the first knuckle. Breaking the bone that often doesn't get fully removed properly. It causes lifelong pain, infections, incorrect posture, and joint damage. Of course it will contribute or lead to behavioral 'problems' like excessive spraying. It's how they say I'm not comfortable or feeling safe in my territory. Cats don't have the option to go to a mental health clinic for chronic pain, anxiety, depression, etc.
 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Myew

[dove]

26 minutes ago, Myew said:

Lemme give you an example. You know how apes walk on all four using their knuckles? That's quadrupedal digitigrade, whereas cats are full digitigrades.

Declawing a cat is functionally the same as cutting off the tips of your fingers up to the first knuckle. Breaking the bone that often doesn't get fully removed properly. It causes lifelong pain, infections, incorrect posture, and joint damage. Of course it will contribute or lead to behavioral 'problems' like excessive spraying. It's how they say I'm not comfortable or feeling safe in my territory. Cats don't have the option to go to a mental health clinic for chronic pain, anxiety, depression, etc.
 

 

(groaning with guilt)

[dove]

7 hours ago, Dove said:

regret, remorse)

 

[Myew]

Sister Sandra, I'm sorry if my post made you feel hurt. My intention was to educate. How can people feel or know before they experience it or are taught? Most adults in the USA have lived life in cities so far removed from the natural order of things, with no education about animals or agriculture, that they simply don't relate to how animals might feel when removed from their natural habitats and forced to adapt to human restrictions. The spirit of convenience and commercialism is a constant pressure and most don't even question it when they are recommended to do something by doctors or scientists. People are ignorant and they don't even care.

 

(Ephesians 4:17, 18) So this is what I say and bear witness to in the Lord, that you should no longer go on walking just as the nations also walk, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are in darkness mentally and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensitivity of their hearts.

You are not insensitive like they are. If you could do things differently, you would. That is why you are loved.  Everyone makes mistakes constantly and needs forgiveness for any number of things. When an animal forgives, it's not like a human who may hide their true feelings. So if your cat loves you, try to learn to forgive yourself for their sake. They wouldn't want you to suffer when they've already gotten over it. They simply appreciate or deal with the time that they are given, unconditionally. That is a good lesson for us from Jehovah's creation.

 

(Psalm 38:8) I have grown numb and become completely crushed; My anguished heart makes me groan aloud.
(Isaiah 57:15) For this is what the High and Lofty One says, Who lives forever and whose name is holy: “I reside in the high and holy place, But also with those crushed and lowly in spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly And to revive the heart of those being crushed.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Myew

[Cushi]

I feel the same way about this as I do about clipping a dog’s ears or tail. People don’t do this for their pets, they do it for themselves.

[Dustparticle]

 I know claws do get big and dirty. Need to be careful with this. There is a reason why they have claws. Jehovah made them so, there has to be a reason for this. I remember I took my dog to the vet around 35 years ago, and she was declawing him. Boy you should see him trying to bite her head off! I had to step in to calm him down. I don't know about you, to me , it was funny to see this. He had his mouth open wide as can be to chop.

[GeordieGirl]

13 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

 I know claws do get big and dirty. Need to be careful with this. There is a reason why they have claws. Jehovah made them so, there has to be a reason for this. I remember I took my dog to the vet around 35 years ago, and she was declawing him. Boy you should see him trying to bite her head off! I had to step in to calm him down. I don't know about you, to me , it was funny to see this. He had his mouth open wide as can be to chop.

Why would you declaw a dog? Do you mean he was having his claws clipped; like a manicure? 

 

 

 

[dove]

On 6/7/2019 at 10:23 PM, Myew said:

Sister Sandra, I'm sorry if my post made you feel hurt. My intention was to educate. How can people feel or know before they experience it or are taught? Most adults in the USA have lived life in cities so far removed from the natural order of things, with no education about animals or agriculture, that they simply don't relate to how animals might feel when removed from their natural habitats and forced to adapt to human restrictions. The spirit of convenience and commercialism is a constant pressure and most don't even question it when they are recommended to do something by doctors or scientists. People are ignorant and they don't even care.

 

(Ephesians 4:17, 18) So this is what I say and bear witness to in the Lord, that you should no longer go on walking just as the nations also walk, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are in darkness mentally and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensitivity of their hearts.

You are not insensitive like they are. If you could do things differently, you would. That is why you are loved.  Everyone makes mistakes constantly and needs forgiveness for any number of things. When an animal forgives, it's not like a human who may hide their true feelings. So if your cat loves you, try to learn to forgive yourself for their sake. They wouldn't want you to suffer when they've already gotten over it. They simply appreciate or deal with the time that they are given, unconditionally. That is a good lesson for us from Jehovah's creation.

 

(Psalm 38:8) I have grown numb and become completely crushed; My anguished heart makes me groan aloud.
(Isaiah 57:15) For this is what the High and Lofty One says, Who lives forever and whose name is holy: “I reside in the high and holy place, But also with those crushed and lowly in spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly And to revive the heart of those being crushed.

Brother Alex, please see my PM

On 6/7/2019 at 10:23 PM, Myew said:

Sister Sandra, I'm sorry if my post made you feel hurt. My intention was to educate. How can people feel or know before they experience it or are taught? Most adults in the USA have lived life in cities so far removed from the natural order of things, with no education about animals or agriculture, that they simply don't relate to how animals might feel when removed from their natural habitats and forced to adapt to human restrictions. The spirit of convenience and commercialism is a constant pressure and most don't even question it when they are recommended to do something by doctors or scientists. People are ignorant and they don't even care.

 

(Ephesians 4:17, 18) So this is what I say and bear witness to in the Lord, that you should no longer go on walking just as the nations also walk, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are in darkness mentally and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensitivity of their hearts.

You are not insensitive like they are. If you could do things differently, you would. That is why you are loved.  Everyone makes mistakes constantly and needs forgiveness for any number of things. When an animal forgives, it's not like a human who may hide their true feelings. So if your cat loves you, try to learn to forgive yourself for their sake. They wouldn't want you to suffer when they've already gotten over it. They simply appreciate or deal with the time that they are given, unconditionally. That is a good lesson for us from Jehovah's creation.

 

(Psalm 38:8) I have grown numb and become completely crushed; My anguished heart makes me groan aloud.
(Isaiah 57:15) For this is what the High and Lofty One says, Who lives forever and whose name is holy: “I reside in the high and holy place, But also with those crushed and lowly in spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly And to revive the heart of those being crushed.

Brother Alex, please see my PM

[Old]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:24 PM, GeordieGirl said:

This is a subject that pains me greatly and makes me feel sick.  It is barbaric and inhumane and as Tim says, docking tails (now outlawed in Australia) comes in second to this.   

 

Is it legal to dock the tails of sheep in Australia?

[GeordieGirl]

16 hours ago, Old said:

Is it legal to dock the tails of sheep in Australia?

I am not sure why you would want to know this or how it is relevant to the subject of declawing cats and I'm sure a quick Google would have turned up the answer for you the same as it did for me.  

 

I found this 17 page document which outlines all welfare procedures that need to be taken into consideration when tail docking sheep. 

 

It made me wonder if there had even been a similar document written about the welfare procedures to be used when declawing cats, or docking the tails of dogs.

 

You may be interested in reading the document further but I have C&P some of the information here for you.

                                         

"RATIONALE

Tail docking of lambs remains an important husbandry practice in Australia for sheep health, welfare and management reasons outlined below: 

 

Reduces urine and faecal soiling or dag formation and thus minimises susceptibility to fly-strike which is one of the most important welfare concerns for sheep in Australia 

 

Improves external parasite control

 

Reduces faecal contamination and risks to food safety at livestock processing plants 

 

Influences rate of rectal prolapse in lambs 

 

May influence the rate of squamous cell carcinoma formation in the perineal region in older ewes.

 

Flystrike is one of the most important health and welfare concerns for sheep in Australia and tail docking is highly effective at reducing the incidence of flystrike. Webb Ware et al 2000 reported that leaving the tail on lambs can result in a 3fold increase in flystrike rates in Australia.

 

Objective; Tail docking is done only when necessary, and in a manner that minimises the risk to the welfare of sheep, particularly pain and distress.

 

Tail docking should not be done for cosmetic reasons ....." (unlike the reason it was only ever done on dogs)

 

It is good to know that in Jehovah's New World none of this will have to be done, but for now, for the sake of the sheep, it seems to be a necessity, at least in Australia.

 

http://www.animalwelfarestandards.net.au/files/2011/05/Sheep-Tail-docking-discussion-paper-5.3.13.pdf

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by GeordieGirl

[Meditate!]

On 6/8/2019 at 1:10 AM, Dove said:

 

We have all done things in the past 'with good intentions'.,because of misinformation or lack of information. I have my own regrets and don't want to bear them here. 

However, it is really 'what would we do now, now that we know better'. 

 

We can't turn the clock backwards but we can do better going forwards. 

I can't imagine how Jehovah feels in general, and he knows a lot of what is happening in Satan's world that have no clue about! 

Saying, 'it pained the Holy One of Israel'  is probably not sufficient. 

 

Move on, dear sister, in the knowledge of better things ahead. 

[tekmantwo]

On 6/9/2019 at 5:54 PM, Brother Jack said:

I feel the same way about this as I do about clipping a dog’s ears or tail. People don’t do this for their pets, they do it for themselves.

Bro Jack, there are some things about dog tail docking or ear trimming you may not be aware.

 

Australian Shepard dogs, which I have had a couple, its recommended to dock their tails when the dog works a flock or any activity where the tail can be injured during the course of the dogs job. Its a health and safety issue for working dogs, more so cosmetic for non workers. I had a few pups docked just after birth, they hardly even feel it, didnt yelp or show signs of distress.

 

And yeah, I do prefer that look for Aussies. Goofy little furballwrigglebutts....

https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+merle+Australian+shepherds&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&inm=vs#tts=0

 

Too, on Dobermans, it is a good idea to trim their ears. There is a blood vein that runs through the middle of the ear, it is susceptible to rupture when the dog gets to scratching its ear. I've seen it happen and that is not a pretty scene. The vet that we (B-I-L and I) took the dog to told us that, as he was fixing the ear.

Edited June 12, 2019 by tekmantwo
Added link

[Old]

8 hours ago, GeordieGirl said:

I am not sure why you would want to know this or how it is relevant to the subject of declawing cats and I'm sure a quick Google would have turned up the answer for you the same as it did for me.  

 

I

 

Sorry I asked. 

[GeordieGirl]

2 hours ago, Old said:

Sorry I asked. 

You don't have to be sorry you asked .. I just wonder what your reason was for doing so and if you felt there was a connection between this and declawing cats.  

 

I hope you found that document useful.  

Edited June 13, 2019 by GeordieGirl

[Cushi]

5 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

Bro Jack, there are some things about dog tail docking or ear trimming you may not be aware.

 

Australian Shepard dogs, which I have had a couple, its recommended to dock their tails when the dog works a flock or any activity where the tail can be injured during the course of the dogs job. Its a health and safety issue for working dogs, more so cosmetic for non workers. I had a few pups docked just after birth, they hardly even feel it, didnt yelp or show signs of distress.

 

And yeah, I do prefer that look for Aussies. Goofy little furballwrigglebutts....

https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+merle+Australian+shepherds&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&inm=vs#tts=0

 

Too, on Dobermans, it is a good idea to trim their ears. There is a blood vein that runs through the middle of the ear, it is susceptible to rupture when the dog gets to scratching its ear. I've seen it happen and that is not a pretty scene. The vet that we (B-I-L and I) took the dog to told us that, as he was fixing the ear.

Yes, but most people don’t do this for the dogs well being. They do it because they think it’s aesthetically pleasing. Like with pit bulls, they clip their ears to make them look meaner. I refused to do that to my pit. And in my opinion pit bulls look silly with their ears clipped. I will admit that Dobermans look better with clipped ears but I would never do it if I did like dobermans.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Brother Jack

[Cushi]

I hope this doesn’t offend anyone but I also don’t like seeing dogs in kennels. If you don’t want your dog running around your house or apartment while you’re gone, then maybe having a dog is not the best thing for the dog.