On the Perception of Race

[JennyM]

2 minutes ago, carlos said:

Jenny, I'm sure that there are some brothers who take dating and courtship lightly and I agree that's unchristian.

 

Yet when you say that it's specifically Europeans that do that, I think it may be just a cultural difference. Maybe sisters in your area take any act of kindness by a brother as romantic interest, while from the viewpoint of the foreign brother, who is not aware of the Filipino culture, he's just being kind.

 

Where I live it's perfectly common for a brother (married or single) to go out in service with any sister (married or single). If it's a hot day, he will probably invite her to enter a cafe and have a soft drink or an ice cream. Or if it's a cold day he will invite her to a coffee. According to some friends here, if you do that in certain areas in the US, for example, you better ask for that sister's hand on the spot or you will be receiving some serious advice. But here it's just common courtesy. So if I travelled to your area, went out in service with you and offered you to have a soda together, and the next week I do the same with another sister, you would think I am playing with the sisters' feelings while I am just trying to be kind.

 

Personally I think it's very sad when a brother cannot show some kindness to a sister (or the other way around) without being interpreted as romantic interest. But of course my view is modeled and filtered by my culture.

Both men and women view the same here especially  if they're not exposed to western culture.. I am exposed to some degree...

You can't do that to what you mentioned here... No way, it will be interpreted as different.. So know the culture first before knowing someone  from other culture. 

 

Anyway, I ve met a brother to from Spain who got married a sister here. Ive made some friends brothers from Sweden, Belgium and Texas. Im glad their filipina wives are not jealous.   A filipino wife will keep an eye on a single sister talking to her husband. 😀

 

Ive been trying to be a friend to a  filipino brother here who is married to a worldly woman( just talking to him at khall)  and I can feel that he's uncomfortable with our friendship so I don't speak to him when its not important.  

 

In Korean congregation, elders will ask you why you have  seated  with a single brother twice.. They will ask you whether you're dating or not..   No joking about crushes too. 

 

Believe or not.. In worldly thinking, if a Filipina is walking with a white guy, people think shes a prostitute.  

Or if people saw you with your boyfriend walking together on the street in the countryside, they will think that you have already slept together.   

 

[thegreenjudy]

16 hours ago, Bek said:

 

I think women in general pay less attention to physical appearance than men. That is because women do not need a very good-looking guy, especially for sexual reasons. No wonder there is a popular saying "women love with ears while men love with eyes".

 

 

 

 

Just because there seems to be a tendency for men to be focused on physicalities doesn't mean it's very wise or mature. In my work I have guys telling me that it's not their fault, it's evolution!! And I'm like "yeah and women being into guys with money must be evolution,too because they need to be provided for". They usually shut up then.

 

A lot of men who place more emphasis on physicalities regret very quickly when they realise the type of person they ended up with - suddenly that person isn't so beautiful anymore. There really is no excuse to place so much emphasis on beauty - we've been given a brain for a reason. Mature Christians are not that shallow (men and women!). 

 

Of course, beauty and a good personality are not mutually exclusive but I have seen many tears shed over the years when both, guys and gals, were utterly disappointed with their physically attractive choice because they completely omitted to actually get to know the person and ignored many suitable candidates down the road (ie. hardly spoke a word with them) because they might not have that hourglass figure or are not that cool bearded hunk they were looking for.

 

A lot of young brothers who constantly complain about not finding a partner and women being shallow and preferring someone with privileges in the congregation falsely think that a fancy car and a cool haircut are all the qualities one needs to attract a sister. And surely, some are into that but it usually doesn't end well.

 

Equally I have met some sisters whose requirements are so narrow that I am not surprised they are still single. Not that getting married is the be all and end all but the idea of getting married to their ideal seems to consume their life's anyway you might as well broaden your horizons.

 

Ironically, a lot of people with high expectations are not that pretty or handsome themselves (especially guys I have to say). I am not sure how one would think that they are so irresistible that their ideal looking partner is just waiting for them to sweep them off their feet!

 

Be open minded and engage your brain before your eyes is all I can say and you might end up with a really lovely person who isn't that shabby looking either 🙂

 

 

[thegreenjudy]

18 hours ago, JennyM said:

This is what mature Asian bros do.. They observe sisters from a distance.. The sister doesn't know.. Then the dating process is so short  that proceeds to engagement right away. 

But I notice that most Europeans enjoy too much dating.... Like bees to different flowers...  They  reason out.  "I have to get to know the person well." Then, if they don't like something, then it stopped.. Most likely it hurts to Asian culture..   So , its important to set expectation at first when it comes to cultural differences...... But anyway, what I like about most of European, American are being friendly.. Asian culture is restrictive......  Its common sense that we should not talk to the husband if its not so important such as theocratic arrangement etc. 

Actually it's interesting to hear your views. I have heard many Asians say that. And I am not sure if it's wise. First of all it's not just for the brother to decide if she is the right person. But the fact that in Asian culture a courtship is often very secretive is not wise. The main reason this is being done is not to lose face when the courtship ends. And many falsely believe that having gone through a failed courtship before is somehow disgraceful. But contrary to popular belief in Asian culture there is nothing wrong with that from Jehovah's standpoint it's just a cultural quirk. Better to get to know the person and not regret your choice later. In Korea it is often so strict that many couples can't really get to know each other naturally because there are so many restrictions as to who is allowed to know about the courtship. Many a marriage have ended up in tears because the sister had not much time to actually experience her husband to be in a natural environment, in groups for example. It's a perfect way to disguise bad habits and attitudes when you have no time to actually know the person. A few months ago the broadcast had a video about courtship and they used an Asian couple for a reason. And it was shown how to do it the wise way. 

Another reason is also to not give the impression that you are free to court anyone else. My Korean friend had to go through some embarrassing moments while she was courting a western brother as she was approached by another love-struck Korean brother. He was a bit over the top but prepared this huge rose bouquet for her and made this really cheesy attempt to ask her out. That would have not been an issue if she had been allowed to be upfront about her courtship.

 

That is not to say that it is mature when a Christian goes through courtships like TV channels. But I know my friend would have ended up in a very abusive marriage if she had done it the Asian way.

Edited October 17, 2019 by thegreenjudy

[thegreenjudy]

15 hours ago, JennyM said:

Both men and women view the same here especially  if they're not exposed to western culture.. I am exposed to some degree...

You can't do that to what you mentioned here... No way, it will be interpreted as different.. So know the culture first before knowing someone  from other culture. 

 

 

I have to say I agree with this. If you choose to live in a different country it is important to adapt to the culture.

 

And yes, it's a cultural difference. If any brother who ever bought me a drink or an ice cream fancied me, I'd be very flattered 😂 But no, in Europe (especially in Spain, Italy etc) it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[JennyM]

3 minutes ago, thegreenjudy said:

I have to say I agree with this. If you choose to live in a different country it is important to adapt to the culture.

 

And yes, it's a cultural difference. If any brother who ever bought me a drink or an ice cream fancied me, I'd be very flattered 😂 But no, in Europe (especially in Spain, Italy etc) it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I tried to apply being friendly to single brothers .. to be honest, just be friends because its the way in our foreign circuit where i meet bros and sis from the west..  and I was just misinterpreted as if I like them.. So I was ended  embarrassed.. This is the way it is so need to adjust too not to insist the things that I learned in the other circuit. 

 

 

[thegreenjudy]

1 minute ago, JennyM said:

I tried to apply being friendly to single brothers .. to be honest, just be friends because its the way in our foreign circuit where i meet bros and sis from the west..  and I was just misinterpreted as if I like them.. So I was ended  embarrassed.. This is the way it is so need to adjust too not to insist the things that I learned in the other circuit. 

 

 

Ah yes, there is this one quirk... brothers are allowed to be nice to you without being accused of liking you..but if the shoe is on the other foot and they don't fancy you, they will run a mile😑😂 

 

I had this problem many times. I was literally just trying to be nice but it was very quickly misconstrued as me being into them. So rule number one: Brother buys you ice cream = no problem. You buy brothers ice cream = "Ooohhh I heard you fancy brother so-and-so" or the brother stops talking to you or he proposes a week later depending on whether he is into you or not😜

[JennyM]

47 minutes ago, thegreenjudy said:

Ah yes, there is this one quirk... brothers are allowed to be nice to you without being accused of liking you..but if the shoe is on the other foot and they don't fancy you, they will run a mile😑😂 

 

I had this problem many times. I was literally just trying to be nice but it was very quickly misconstrued as me being into them. So rule number one: Brother buys you ice cream = no problem. You buy brothers ice cream = "Ooohhh I heard you fancy brother so-and-so" or the brother stops talking to you or he proposes a week later depending on whether he is into you or not😜

There was this incident wherein I greeted a visiting brother.... He sat infront of me so after the meeting of course I was the nearest and I welcomed him.. And he implied that "he's married." 😂......  I still greet visiting brothers but I don't talk to them twice.. 

 

Acceptance is the key.. This is what people are here. 

[Meditate!]

1 hour ago, thegreenjudy said:

Ah yes, there is this one quirk... brothers are allowed to be nice to you without being accused of liking you..but if the shoe is on the other foot and they don't fancy you, they will run a mile😑😂 

 

I had this problem many times. I was literally just trying to be nice but it was very quickly misconstrued as me being into them. So rule number one: Brother buys you ice cream = no problem. You buy brothers ice cream = "Ooohhh I heard you fancy brother so-and-so" or the brother stops talking to you or he proposes a week later depending on whether he is into you or not😜

LOL!

 

The thread perceptions of race is interesting .. we're seeing all sides now and none are exclusive.. There are brothers in all cultures trying to do the scriptural thing (despite the backlash that Sis Jenny received). Even Jesus had to battle with the prevailing culture (apostles and their Jewish -'I'm the greatest' flaw) He had to gently remind them to change but it didn't happen overnight.

 

One thing that (here anyway) seem to be flourishing is Narcissism.. Even in the congregation Male or female. the one common denominator with those in particular is social media obsession. They're always forwarding selfies of themselves; but having to show others in the congregation setting? it can embarrassing.

 

It's also interesting that Narcissism is viewed as a personality disorder than a personality characteristic; Quote

 

 Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.

 

The part about having a lack of empathy for others.. in this instance courtship or misinterpreting other's signals (I'm thinking of UK now) can be seen as being either dismissive of others not in their group, or plain rude when things do not go their way. How wise to view from a distance before getting involved with such ones. Marrying only in the Lord doesn't mean anyone baptised.

[JennyM]

 

5 hours ago, Alan said:

LOL!

The thread perceptions of race is interesting .. we're seeing all sides now and none are exclusive.. There are brothers in all cultures trying to do the scriptural thing (despite the backlash that Sis Jenny received). Even Jesus had to battle with the prevailing culture (apostles and their Jewish -'I'm the greatest' flaw) He had to gently remind them to change but it didn't happen overnight.

The imperfection here then is that men are dominating women. And it won't change overnight even for a hundred of years today.  

5 hours ago, Alan said:

One thing that (here anyway) seem to be flourishing is Narcissism.. Even in the congregation Male or female. the one common denominator with those in particular is social media obsession. They're always forwarding selfies of themselves; but having to show others in the congregation setting? it can embarrassing.

 

It's also interesting that Narcissism is viewed as a personality disorder than a personality characteristic; Quote

 

 Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.

Antidote is to love your neighbor as yourself. I have this close friend of mine. (a brother and an elder) .. We were close friends. He's been calling almost every night especially when he's lonely. But he married another anyway..  After getting married, he still wanted to resume our close friendship. He called me when he got out of their house.  While on the phone, my conscience was talking to me. What would I feel if I were in his wife's shoes? So I acted cold on him and he never called anymore. 

6 hours ago, Alan said:

The part about having a lack of empathy for others.. in this instance courtship or misinterpreting other's signals (I'm thinking of UK now) can be seen as being either dismissive of others not in their group, or plain rude when things do not go their way. How wise to view from a distance before getting involved with such ones. Marrying only in the Lord doesn't mean anyone baptised.

Men's ego is too complicated to explain I think.   Yes it is wiser to observe someone you like rather than getting close and date  then friendship is broken. Especially for sisters who knows that few options are there.... Stay single or marry a brother because at least he's in the truth.. lol!    

[JennyM]

8 hours ago, thegreenjudy said:

Actually it's interesting to hear your views. I have heard many Asians say that. And I am not sure if it's wise. First of all it's not just for the brother to decide if she is the right person. But the fact that in Asian culture a courtship is often very secretive is not wise. The main reason this is being done is not to lose face when the courtship ends. And many falsely believe that having gone through a failed courtship before is somehow disgraceful. But contrary to popular belief in Asian culture there is nothing wrong with that from Jehovah's standpoint it's just a cultural quirk. Better to get to know the person and not regret your choice later. In Korea it is often so strict that many couples can't really get to know each other naturally because there are so many restrictions as to who is allowed to know about the courtship. Many a marriage have ended up in tears because the sister had not much time to actually experience her husband to be in a natural environment, in groups for example. It's a perfect way to disguise bad habits and attitudes when you have no time to actually know the person. A few months ago the broadcast had a video about courtship and they used an Asian couple for a reason. And it was shown how to do it the wise way. 

Another reason is also to not give the impression that you are free to court anyone else. My Korean friend had to go through some embarrassing moments while she was courting a western brother as she was approached by another love-struck Korean brother. He was a bit over the top but prepared this huge rose bouquet for her and made this really cheesy attempt to ask her out. That would have not been an issue if she had been allowed to be upfront about her courtship.

 

That is not to say that it is mature when a Christian goes through courtships like TV channels. But I know my friend would have ended up in a very abusive marriage if she had done it the Asian way.

yeah its hard to find the balance.. upbringing, community culture 

 

Western  = individualism 

Asian = community, communal (need to think what others think before acting or saying something) 

 

In my opinion, we should all mix up to learn .. But not  possible at the moment. 

 

In  human culture, there's no best culture. We just do things in different ways.  

 

Bible is the best culture.... "Seek the advantage of others not  own our  personal interest."     "sacrificing love"   "true love builds up."  

 

I enjoy meeting European brothers anyway, they're outgoing but I would never take the initiative to invite one for a date or contact if Im interested  cause its our culture. 

 

[Bek]

9 hours ago, thegreenjudy said:

Just because there seems to be a tendency for men to be focused on physicalities doesn't mean it's very wise or mature. In my work I have guys telling me that it's not their fault, it's evolution!! And I'm like "yeah and women being into guys with money must be evolution,too because they need to be provided for". They usually shut up then.

 

A lot of men who place more emphasis on physicalities regret very quickly when they realise the type of person they ended up with - suddenly that person isn't so beautiful anymore. There really is no excuse to place so much emphasis on beauty - we've been given a brain for a reason. Mature Christians are not that shallow (men and women!). 

 

Of course, beauty and a good personality are not mutually exclusive but I have seen many tears shed over the years when both, guys and gals, were utterly disappointed with their physically attractive choice because they completely omitted to actually get to know the person and ignored many suitable candidates down the road (ie. hardly spoke a word with them) because they might not have that hourglass figure or are not that cool bearded hunk they were looking for.

 

Thank you, Sis Judy, for your interesting comment. 

 

I did not say that men's focus on physical looks was a good thing. It is just the way you formed your first sentence suggests you are trying to attribute something I did not say. It is obvious that focusing ONLY on physicalities is unwise, but most men still like beautiful women. It is a fact of life. 

 

I am not sure why you used the "evolution" bit as an argument in our discussion. I think a better place to look for an answer should be the Bible where we read that woman was created as a helper and a gift for man (1 Cor 11:9; Gen 2:18) in whom he finds "great pleasure" (Ec 2:8). Men are also specifically told to provide for their wives, "the weaker vessels" (1 Tim 5:8; 1 Pet 3:7). In other words, a man was created to be head and carer of his wife while his wife was to help him and be a source of "pleasure" and glory. As you know, pleasure can be visual, sexual, emotional etc. 

 

Since we are imperfect, we often make wrong choices. We also live in a world that promotes physical looks and wrong desires. So it is not surprising that men and women sometimes focus only on certain things in the opposite sex, and then suffer the consequences. 

 

Personally I usually stay away from beautiful women, because they often tend to have some bad traits. Beauty is in a way power and it draws attention from others. When you are showered with praise from a young age, you develop certain unhealthy traits. I must say that I do not know whether beautiful sisters are like worldly women. I assume they would try to transform themselves to meet God's standards.  

 

 

 

[Hope]

3 hours ago, Bek said:

Personally I usually stay away from beautiful women, because they often tend to have some bad traits. Beauty is in a way power and it draws attention from others. When you are showered with praise from a young age, you develop certain unhealthy traits. I must say that I do not know whether beautiful sisters are like worldly women. I assume they would try to transform themselves to meet God's standards.  

 

 

 

I find this to be a very sad assumption and statement.  No one can help how they look. Is it equally acceptable to say that because someone was ugly, that's why no one wants to talk to them?  No.... we're supposed to look beyond mere physical appearance, aren't we? Determine what's in the heart, right?

 

It is quite unkind to feel comfortable admitting to avoid someone based on their physical appearance, I think.  Or to assume they have bad traits simply because they are beautiful/ handsome. 

 

I'm not certain what sort of power it's thought they have but I've not seen or experienced it. My two best friends could literally be fashion models for their beauty but they are the most kind, warm, spiritual women I've ever known. 

[Bek]

23 minutes ago, Hope said:

I find this to be a very sad assumption and statement.  No one can help how they look. Is it equally acceptable to say that because someone was ugly, that's why no one wants to talk to them?  No.... we're supposed to look beyond mere physical appearance, aren't we? Determine what's in the heart, right?

 

It is quite unkind to feel comfortable admitting to avoid someone based on their physical appearance, I think.  Or to assume they have bad traits simply because they are beautiful/ handsome. 

 

I'm not certain what sort of power it's thought they have but I've not seen or experienced it. My two best friends could literally be fashion models for their beauty but they are the most kind, warm, spiritual women I've ever known. 

Well, I was talking about my past experience with worldly women who often think about sex, night clubs, travelling, shopping and money. Plus, they are arrogant and feel very entitled. Of course, there are intelligent and kind ones among them, but they must be in the minority. May be it is just me. 

 

As for your two friends, I assume they are sisters. I have no experience with such sisters. That is why I said they would probably be different because they would try to meet God's standards.

 

I have no problems with talking to women who may not be attractive. I have often found such women to be very intelligent, warm and nice to be around.  

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bek

[Hope]

I believe the bad attitudes you've experienced are more down to the sort of person they were than just their physical appearance. Perhaps unusual beauty is more notable but I have full confidence that the bad qualities you mentioned are in full force within less attractive people. 

 

My friends are sisters... but I've heard your sentiments expressed just as strongly from fellow Witnesses about attractive brothers and sisters. Presuming their "entitled" personalities simply from their looks.  It can be difficult to make friends under those prejudiced circumstances... maybe we can all be aware?

[JennyM]

9 hours ago, Bek said:

Personally I usually stay away from beautiful women, because they often tend to have some bad traits. Beauty is in a way power and it draws attention from others. When you are showered with praise from a young age, you develop certain unhealthy traits. I must say that I do not know whether beautiful sisters are like worldly women. I assume they would try to transform themselves to meet God's standards.  

There are also ugly people that work hard to validate themselves .. They do boasting that "this person like me" thing. 

But yes, beautiful people have the tendency to be proud but if they are true Christians, it will be balanced. 

Its the same with wealth, accomplishment , power, intelligence or knowledge.   

 

As proverbs say " Man's heart is like a deep water." We use discernment to draw out what's in the heart of a person.  Take time to get to know.  

 

I agree with you  that we are drawn to beautiful  people, place or things.  Same with sisters, they like handsome men too but now there are just few options..... When I was in my 20's I felt like invisible in the congregation wherein in the world,  I feel flattered from many admirers...  Women is a large army so yeah as a sister I have to be contented on the position that I have  in Jehovah's organization as a single person. 

 

[Bek]

4 hours ago, Hope said:

I believe the bad attitudes you've experienced are more down to the sort of person they were than just their physical appearance. Perhaps unusual beauty is more notable but I have full confidence that the bad qualities you mentioned are in full force within less attractive people. 

 

My friends are sisters... but I've heard your sentiments expressed just as strongly from fellow Witnesses about attractive brothers and sisters. Presuming their "entitled" personalities simply from their looks.  It can be difficult to make friends under those prejudiced circumstances... maybe we can all be aware?

Beautiful women are a minority. You don't see them every day. I even once did an experiment and looked through photos of beauty contestants both at local, regional and global levels. Out of 100 women at each contest I found only 5-10 as beautiful. Others were overall attractive or just had good figures with average faces.

 

 "Ugly" women are also a minority.  I don't remember when I last saw an ugly woman, and by ugly I mean born like that. For example, there is a girl living next door to me with a big scar on her face, but she still looks good. 

 

I guess I could categorise women into ulgy, average-looking, attractive and beautiful. I don't know if this categorisation makes sense in English. In Russian we have words for these categories. Average-looking ones are the majority and you see them every day and in most places. Then it is attractive ones who are also common and you see them often. 

 

I also have noticed that when an average-looking girl has plastic surgery on her face, she changes a lot in terms of her character. Even just getting bigger breasts seems to have a huge impact on a woman's self-confidence and self-esteem. Her behaviour changes significantly and you can notice that she starts aiming higher. This is just my personal observation. 

 

Beautiful women are few compared to the general population of women and they know it. They draw attention and admiration from both sexes. This in turn affects their ego negatively by making them arrogant and entitled. She opens her door and sees 10 wealthy hunks who want to be with her and buy her everything and so. Of course, this kind of attention corrupts a woman.   

[JennyM]

2 hours ago, Bek said:

I guess I could categorise women into ulgy, average-looking, attractive and beautiful. I don't know if this categorisation makes sense in English. In Russian we have words for these categories. Average-looking ones are the majority and you see them every day and in most places. Then it is attractive ones who are also common and you see them often. 

 

I also have noticed that when an average-looking girl has plastic surgery on her face, she changes a lot in terms of her character. Even just getting bigger breasts seems to have a huge impact on a woman's self-confidence and self-esteem. Her behaviour changes significantly and you can notice that she starts aiming higher. This is just my personal observation. 

 

Beautiful women are few compared to the general population of women and they know it. They draw attention and admiration from both sexes. This in turn affects their ego negatively by making them arrogant and entitled. She opens her door and sees 10 wealthy hunks who want to be with her and buy her everything and so. Of course, this kind of attention corrupts a woman.   

sometimes, being attractive or beautiful is subjective..  the skin color brown is here is not attractive. but in others it is.. 

Korean people don't like their eyes but I find it cute and attractive too. 

 

Well its dangerous to be beautiful in this system.. Im glad im just an average. 

 

 

 

 

[Bek]

27 minutes ago, JennyM said:

sometimes, being attractive or beautiful is subjective..  the skin color brown is here is not attractive. but in others it is.. 

Korean people don't like their eyes but I find it cute and attractive too. 

 

Well its dangerous to be beautiful in this system.. Im glad im just an average. 

I agree on the subjective part. For me though skin colour is not an issue at all. I have seen photos of equally beautiful Asians, Europeans and Africans. 

 

In East Asia, they seem to love European type of beauty, meaning big eyes, double eyelids and curvy figures. The children of mix-raced marriages (Asian/European) are seen as very beautiful there. I have seen some videos of them and I'd say they would be fit the attractive category where I live. 

 

It is better to be with an average-looking girl who is intelligent, interesting and loving. The richer the personality the better. Of course, if there is a girl  beautiful both on the inside and outside, it would be better still, but it is harder to find them.

 

It is also important to remember that physical beauty is temporary and often it fades with age while inner beauty stays and grows.   

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Bek

[EccentricM]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

double eyelids

I had to research what on earth that was, lol.

 

On beauty, I do think it's a "spectrum" of which is a lot of subjectivity. What a lot of Western men here find "hot" I often find unattractive, or harsh looking. I've found what I get attracted to, purely by a physical standard, are girls who are considered either more plain or "natrual beauty". I've often found the certain looks I'm often attracted to are found in many Slavic or Eastern European women.

Edited October 18, 2019 by EccentricM

[Thesauron]

Beautiful women are a minority. You don't see them every day. I even once did an experiment and looked through photos of beauty contestants both at local, regional and global levels. Out of 100 women at each contest I found only 5-10 as beautiful. Others were overall attractive or just had good figures with average faces.

 

 "Ugly" women are also a minority.  I don't remember when I last saw an ugly woman, and by ugly I mean born like that. For example, there is a girl living next door to me with a big scar on her face, but she still looks good. 

 

I guess I could categorise women into ulgy, average-looking, attractive and beautiful. I don't know if this categorisation makes sense in English. In Russian we have words for these categories. Average-looking ones are the majority and you see them every day and in most places. Then it is attractive ones who are also common and you see them often. 

 

I also have noticed that when an average-looking girl has plastic surgery on her face, she changes a lot in terms of her character. Even just getting bigger breasts seems to have a huge impact on a woman's self-confidence and self-esteem. Her behaviour changes significantly and you can notice that she starts aiming higher. This is just my personal observation. 

 

Beautiful women are few compared to the general population of women and they know it. They draw attention and admiration from both sexes. This in turn affects their ego negatively by making them arrogant and entitled. She opens her door and sees 10 wealthy hunks who want to be with her and buy her everything and so. Of course, this kind of attention corrupts a woman.   

What do you feel is an “ugly” or “beautiful woman? I see beautiful women everywhere. And beautiful men.

[thegreenjudy]

16 hours ago, Bek said:

Thank you, Sis Judy, for your interesting comment. 

 

I did not say that men's focus on physical looks was a good thing. It is just the way you formed your first sentence suggests you are trying to attribute something I did not say. It is obvious that focusing ONLY on physicalities is unwise, but most men still like beautiful women. It is a fact of life. 

 

I am not sure why you used the "evolution" bit as an argument in our discussion. I think a better place to look for an answer should be the Bible where we read that woman was created as a helper and a gift for man (1 Cor 11:9; Gen 2:18) in whom he finds "great pleasure" (Ec 2:8). Men are also specifically told to provide for their wives, "the weaker vessels" (1 Tim 5:8; 1 Pet 3:7). In other words, a man was created to be head and carer of his wife while his wife was to help him and be a source of "pleasure" and glory. As you know, pleasure can be visual, sexual, emotional etc. 

 

Since we are imperfect, we often make wrong choices. We also live in a world that promotes physical looks and wrong desires. So it is not surprising that men and women sometimes focus only on certain things in the opposite sex, and then suffer the consequences. 

 

Personally I usually stay away from beautiful women, because they often tend to have some bad traits. Beauty is in a way power and it draws attention from others. When you are showered with praise from a young age, you develop certain unhealthy traits. I must say that I do not know whether beautiful sisters are like worldly women. I assume they would try to transform themselves to meet God's standards.  

 

 

 

Sorry I think we are misunderstood each other. I brought Evolution up as an example of an excuse I often hear. Your comment came across as "oh well that's just the way men are.." or "that's just how Jehovah created us". It sounded similar to the argument I hear from my work colleagues, using evolution as a reason for being shallow.

 

And beautiful people are not automatically arrogant ( see Esther) but what could warp their view of themselves is how other people treat them. So if I meet a beautiful person I don't automatically ignore them. I don't think that's fair. They still should get a chance to show their personality. It's a two edged sword, and I am glad I don't belong to this group. I would constantly question whether someone likes me for my personality or my body.

[Bek]

49 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

What do you feel is an “ugly” or “beautiful woman? I see beautiful women everywhere. And beautiful men.

I actually prefer the word unattractive to "ugly". I used it only to quote someone. These terms are subjective and many people can understand them differently depending on personal preferences, culture, country and race. As I pointed out in my earlier posts, I have not seen an "ugly" woman for a long time. If you really want to find out what the words mean, you can look them up in the Oxford dictionary. I think both of us will agree with their definitions. 

 

As for your seeing physically beautiful women "everywhere", I believe it means two things - either, you live in an area full of beautiful women or you are being too generous. 

 

You reminded me my dear friend from Australia who once lived in my home town. I would often hear him say that all women are beautiful, which always puzzled me, but I never asked him what he meant. I concluded that he only meant inner beauty. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Bek
deleted a word

[JennyM]

3 hours ago, EccentricM said:

I had to research what on earth that was, lol.

 

On beauty, I do think it's a "spectrum" of which is a lot of subjectivity. What a lot of Western men here find "hot" I often find unattractive, or harsh looking. I've found what I get attracted to, purely by a physical standard, are girls who are considered either more plain or "natrual beauty". I've often found the certain looks I'm often attracted to are found in many Slavic or Eastern European women.

Chinese, Korean, Japanese are monolids.. 

The rest are double eyelids.. 

My filipina friend went to Croatia (slavic part) .. Men found her more beautiful than the women there. 😀

Beauty is really subjective... and its everywhere... There are attractive and unattractive in every race (for the meantime) 

 

In paradise, everyone will be beautiful... 

So if you feel unattractive today, enjoy it because it only happens once.. 😁

 

 

[JennyM]

@BekIm proud of our Circuit Overseer who married a sister, well I don't know how to describe her... shes isn't that attractive but her personality is always happy. I glanced at her and it seems that she looks like a guy to me with long hair........Yeah. Men are not always vain.

[carlos]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find most women beautiful or attractive in some way. And when the more you get to know a person the less you care about their looks. Nobody thinks their own mom is ugly.

 

It's doesn't make sense either to attribute good or bad qualities to people depending on their (subjective) beauty or lack thereof. Everybody has good and bad qualities. Rather than discarding a sister because she's stunningly beautiful or very ugly, it's much better to get to know that sister and find which spiritual qualities she has.

 

That being said, when you see a sister who attracts a lot of attention because she gives a lot of importance to her physical appearance, that usually means she's high maintenance. If you marry her you will always be paying for expensive clothes, contant haircuts, nails, gym, diets...