“Let me tell you how it works with Jehovah’s Witnesses

[TrueTomHarley]

I had a number 3 or 4 talk and I told my householder to lead with a polite dismissal of me based upon his having his own religion. I would sneak past that, and he was to do it again. “Let me tell you how it works with Jehovah’s Witnesses,” I then said. “I AM going to ask you to convert...[brief pause to let this sink it] but I am not going to do it until the 100th call, and what are the chances that it will go so long? In the meantime, it is just conversation.”

 

The more I use that approach, the more I like it. It’s not for everywhere. But in some settings where people get all panicky because they think they are getting roped into something, it works very well.

Edited January 24, 2020 by TrueTomHarley

[leoperales]

[Bek]

Quote

“I AM going to ask you to convert...[brief pause to let this sink it] but I am not going to do it until the 100th call, and what are the chances that it will go so long?

 

Where I live, JWs are criticized for seeking to proselytise or "convert" others, which I believe is false. The purpose is not to convert, we say, but to tell the good news and talk about the Bible. If a person is rightly disposed, he will decide himself what to do with the information he has learnt from us. 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Bek

[Tortuga]

I was out in service with a brother several years ago and the house holder complained that we come by "all the time", the brother said that if they agreed to a study we would come by only once a week.

 

😁👍

[leoperales]

12 minutes ago, Bek said:

 

Where I live, JWs are criticized for seeking to proselytise or "convert" others, which I believe is false. The purpose is not to convert, we say, but to tell the good news and talk about the Bible. If a person is rightly disposed, he will decide himself what to do with the information he has learnt from us. 

 

 

But our purpose is to "convert", according to Matthew 28:19, 20. 😅

[Tortuga]

28 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I AM going to ask you to convert...[brief pause to let this sink it] but I am not going to do it until the 100th call,

If they took that literally, then you study with them for nearly 2 years before suggesting they start changing their lifestyle? 😆😅

[Bek]

39 minutes ago, leoperales said:

But our purpose is to "convert", according to Matthew 28:19, 20. 😅

No, it is not. To convert means to change someone's faith or religion. That is not what we are after. We want to tell the good news about the Kingdom. We are only the messengers or witnesses. Some of us plant and others water, but only Jehovah does the "converting" or as the Bible, put its, "drawing" rightly disposed ones to himself. 

 

Quote

And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come. Mt 24:14

Edited January 24, 2020 by Bek

[McKay]

1 hour ago, leoperales said:

But our purpose is to "convert", according to Matthew 28:19, 20. 😅

That's why I always say, "We're not here for some sort of doorstep conversion."

[leoperales]

2 hours ago, Bek said:

No, it is not. To convert means to change someone's faith or religion. That is not what we are after. We want to tell the good news about the Kingdom. We are only the messengers or witnesses. Some of us plant and others water, but only Jehovah does the "converting" or as the Bible, put its, "drawing" rightly disposed ones to himself. 

 

Welllllll, ok, I see your argument. 

[minister159]

4 hours ago, OtterWriter said:

That's why I always say, "We're not here for some sort of doorstep conversion."

That's why when they say, "I have my own religion," I will sometimes say, "That's fine, we're not on a membership drive."

[Sheep]

6 hours ago, Bek said:

No, it is not. To convert means to change someone's faith or religion. That is not what we are after. We want to tell the good news about the Kingdom. We are only the messengers or witnesses. Some of us plant and others water, but only Jehovah does the "converting" or as the Bible, put its, "drawing" rightly disposed ones to himself. 

See this topic. It turns into a discussion on conversion around post #3.

[Myew]

The term conversion or convert has taken on very negative connotations due to the forced conversion practiced by Christendom. We as Witnesses do want to help people convert from false religious teachings to the truth in God's Word. However, we do so by means of persuasion based on sound reasoning, and never through coercion.
 

noun: coercion

the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

Similar:

force, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, insistence, demand, arm-twisting, pressure, pressurization, influence

(Acts 19:8) Entering the synagogue, for three months he spoke with boldness, giving talks and reasoning persuasively about the Kingdom of God.
(Acts 26:28, 29) But A·gripʹpa said to Paul: “In a short time you would persuade me to become a Christian.” 29 At this Paul said: “I wish to God that whether in a short time or in a long time, not only you but also all those who hear me today would become men such as I am, with the exception of these prison bonds.”
(Acts 28:23) And from morning to evening, he explained the matter to them by bearing thorough witness concerning the Kingdom of God, to persuade them about Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Myew

[TrueTomHarley]

13 hours ago, Bek said:

The purpose is not to convert, we say, but to tell the good news and talk about the Bible.

Although this may be true, in our area we find that people do not believe it. They think it the tactic of the salesman who will say anything to keep his spiel going. My new approach does not get into the ins and outs of what is converting—it simply moves the issue so far into the future that no one need concern themself about it just now.

 

In areas that are easy to start conversation, I would not use it. I would use it only where people get all suspicious when they see us, convinced that we have some game plan, but unsure as to what it is—and are not inclined to give us a lot of time to explain it.

[TrueTomHarley]

I met a born-again Christian yesterday while making a return visit. It was the young man’s Dad. I actually hadn’t expected to meet my return visit because I knew he just stopped in there from time to time and lived somewhere else, but the initial conversation had been very fine and we were just driving by the house.

 

Our track record of pleasant conversations with evangelicals is not good. Usually we feel obliged to pick out something that they are doing wrong and start a fight over it—not with that goal, of course, but usually with that result. And if we don’t do it to them, then they do it to us. Start rattling on about the paradise and they will cut you short with a line or two about the rapture.

 

I used to fall into this pattern as much as anyone, but in recent years, after decades of life—in other words, it’s about time!—I have come across a new way. In this new way, I do not try to find something of his to poke holes in, and since I didn’t, he did. You know, getting all squirrelly-like, as though to say, “Oh, no, we are not the same. Don’t try to pretend that we are.”

 

As soon as I saw it going that way, I did what I was so very slow to learn to do. He was not an unfriendly guy, and I had already responded to his announcement that he was a born-again Christian: “That almost makes it better—it means we speak the same language. You have regard for the Bible and probably know it as well as me.”

 

It starts things out on a good foot, but still he feels obliged to point out how no way are we the same. I beat him to it. “Look, we are both trying to follow the Word, but we are doing it differently. You think we are doing it wrong and we think you are doing it wrong. But we are both doing it—that’s the point—and we live in a world where most people aren’t doing it at all.” Instantly we were on the same side. There was a little chat about keeping the faith amidst a world that rejects it.

 

I asked him if he was one of those persons  who believed in the rapture and he said that he was. Yes, I know where that verse comes from, I told him. We see it a little differently, and I referred to the Lord’s Prayer that I knew he knew so well but nobody else does today. ‘Yes, God has it all together up in heaven. I mean,  I suppose he does (glancing upwards) but it sure isn’t that way on earth, and it won’t be until—he joined me in saying the last words—“thy kingdom comes.” So we look forward to living forever on the earth, most of us, sort of like that camping trip you took and you relaxed so much that you said “I wish this would never end” only in this case it won’t.

 

That’s about all you can do. I count it successful. Hear each other out, be mutually respectful, and maybe either party will think the other guy’s hope intriguing enough to investigate more. In this case, there was no sign of that. We talked about his front porch awning—my companion brought that up—it was a sturdy piece that had served him well over the years and it was just the ticket during hot summer days of blazing sun. There were some people who bought the screens and other attachments that came with it, he allowed, but he was content just with the awning itself. 

 

His son, while very conversant, had not struck me as particularly religious, I recalled of him, and I did not say it so as to rub his nose in, “but mine is!” No, I said mine isn’t either—it’s not a slam-dunk that kids will follow the faith. Of course, he loves his son, as I do mine, and he observed that ‘it is so strange—children raised in the same house with same parents and same values, yet some take to it and others do not.’ Now you take his daughter, he pointed out, who had latched right on, and I said that was true of one of my daughters as well.

 

So we built a bridge. Who knows if he will cross over it someday, my companion and I chatted afterwards, or, from his point of view, If I will cross it his way. One thing that is clear—he will respect us for our ministry—maybe even compare it do whatever he is or is not doing himself. “Preach the good news in all the inhabited earth—go and make disciples” is not a mission statement that will register approval with everyone, but I know it will with him.

 

Of course, you don’t say that unless he is trying to put you down for it, and this fellow certainly was not. You don’t give any appearance of boasting or being full of yourself. There was even a recommendation once that seemed to step over the line on this. Our website had reached a certain milestone in number of languages translated into—it is over 1000 now—we were sort of proud of it at the time and the recommendation was to bring that up along with the question: “Do you know why we do it?” I never liked the approach and I never tried it. 

 

I accompanied someone who did, though. “Do you know why we do it?” he asked. His return visit said: “What! Do you think I’m a trained chimp? Of course I do! You want to reach people!” That’s why I never used it.

 

That’s not to say I don’t mention the website, though. On the contrary, I usually do (though not to this fellow—it didn’t occur to me) I usually mention the languages, too, only I supply the reason, rather than try to extract it from the householder. If you are serious about preaching the good news worldwide, of course you are going to have such a website as soon as the technology exists. It would almost be religious malpractice not to.

 

 

[Newtonian]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:01 AM, leoperales said:

But our purpose is to "convert", according to Matthew 28:19, 20. 😅

I see your point.   But the verse actually says to teach so they would observe all of Jesus' commandments = disciple making.

 

Note that "disciple" means "learner."   So we teach and they learn.   But when we first try to teach someone we normally offer a free home Bible study.

 

I.e. we could simply say, not that I am here to convert you, but rather - would you like me to demonstrate a free home Bible study?   And then pick something from our Bible teach book and if they accept the study, of course we offer them the book.

[Eejay]

On 1/24/2020 at 2:48 PM, Bek said:

The purpose is not to convert

Our purpose is not to convert people, but it is to inform them so that if they wish, they can convert themselves. This is the only kind of conversion that will benefit a person and is what is mentioned at Acts 26:20:" but to those in Damascus first and then to those in Jerusalem, and over all the country of Ju·deʹa, and also to the nations, I was bringing the message that they should repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.
(See Insight Vol 2 under Repentance).

[TrueTomHarley]

23 hours ago, Newtonian said:

I see your point.   But the verse actually says to teach so they would observe all of Jesus' commandments = disciple making.

Well, we can get around all this discomfort over the word convert, and still achieve the same goal of getting them off pins and needles, by saying: “I AM going to ask you to join my religion—but not until the 100th call, and what are the chances that it will go so long? In the meantime, it’s just conversation.’

 

”I mean, if this kind of topic doesn’t interest you, that’s one thing. But you don’t have to worry that you’re getting roped into anything. It’s just talk.”

 

Again, I would never use that approach unless speaking with someone who clearly does think that way. I would never lead with it.

[tekmantwo]

On 1/24/2020 at 12:42 PM, minister159 said:

That's why when they say, "I have my own religion," I will sometimes say, "That's fine, we're not on a membership drive."

I congratulate them on their recognizing that they have a spiritual need and that Jesus said that they would be happy because of that realization...and then ask if they would like to know what Gods Word says about happiness and how to attain it....

[Newtonian]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:44 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, we can get around all this discomfort over the word convert, and still achieve the same goal of getting them off pins and needles, by saying: “I AM going to ask you to join my religion—but not until the 100th call, and what are the chances that it will go so long? In the meantime, it’s just conversation.’

 

”I mean, if this kind of topic doesn’t interest you, that’s one thing. But you don’t have to worry that you’re getting roped into anything. It’s just talk.”

 

Again, I would never use that approach unless speaking with someone who clearly does think that way. I would never lead with it.

As I posted, I would offer to demonstrate a free home Bible Study.  I might add that we are there to teach what the Bible really teaches and that we are Bible students as well.

 

Also, I might seek common ground by saying - do you agree with us that the Bible is God's Word?

 

So, do you think it would be good to share what we have learned from the Bible?

 

Or something like that.

[Myew]

Today's text is brilliant. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102020002?#h=5:0-8:0
 

"Monday, March 2

How beautiful . . . are the feet of the one bringing good news.—Isa. 52:7.

In this present system, we endure only with Jehovah’s help. (2 Cor. 4:7, 8) But think of those who struggle to survive in this world without a close friendship with Jehovah. Like Jesus, we feel pity for them, and we are moved to bring them “good news of something better.” So be patient with those whom you teach. Remember, they may never have considered some of the Bible truths we know very well. And many have a strong emotional connection to their current beliefs. They may see their religious views as uniting them with their family, their culture, and their community. Before we ask people to give up their cherished “old” beliefs, we may first need to help them build a strong appreciation for “new” truths—Bible teachings that at the outset are unfamiliar to them. Only then will they be ready to abandon their former viewpoint. It may take time to help people make such changes.—Rom. 12:2. w19.03 23 ¶10, 12; 24 ¶13"

Edited March 2, 2020 by Myew