Has the art of "Romantic Subtly" been lost?

[EccentricM]

3 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

Life is too long (God’s new world) for that.

Spot on there! People say "looks won't matter when you're old anyway", and I understand and agree with the principle, that it's about who you live with as a person. A pretty face can become boring if you're both arguing all the time. However, on the other end of things, the reasoning "youth fades" is a very short sighted view, with paradise in mind. I agree with the outlook that I'd want to be happy in "all" respects with my wife. I want someone I have chemistry with, similar interests, as well as being happy visually to what I'll wake up to every day of my life for the next 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000.... (and counting) years 😄.

[Cushi]

1 minute ago, EccentricM said:

This form of "congregational classism" (a term I can best describe it) sometimes bothers me. People seek out someone with a "position", or a label, as opposed to actually dating the person for who they are as an individual. That being said on the otherside, someone may date someone with a position as they deem that as "part" of their personalilty, wanting someone who has an outgoing pioneer lifestyle or what have you. But sometimes this approach or advice of "just marry a pioneer" or "just marry an Elder" or just marry.... as some may say, can be flawed, as you're banking solely on having the same "faith" or strong belief in common, which is important, but it disregards "other" key elements in my view.

 

Marrying someone with a "position" is not a guarantee for happiness or "chemisty", it is merely one part of a larger piece.

This is so true. An elder once told me that the title of elder doesn’t mean one automatically has a strong spirituality. It is up to each elder to continue to grow spiritually. I can see if you’re a pioneer and you also would like a pioneer as a mate so you guys can serve Jehovah together... but not just for the title.

[EccentricM]

1 minute ago, Brother Jack said:

I can see if you’re a pioneer and you also would like a pioneer as a mate so you guys can serve Jehovah together... but not just for the title.

Or even for a single "activity". "We'll be a pioneer couple, perfect!" that's really cool, but... anything else? What about when field service finally ends in the New World, do you have anything between you beyond that?

[Cushi]

7 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

Spot on there! People say "looks won't matter when you're old anyway", and I understand and agree with the principle, that it's about who you live with as a person. A pretty face can become boring if you're both arguing all the time. However, on the other end of things, the reasoning "youth fades" is a very short sighted view, with paradise in mind. I agree with the outlook that I'd want to be happy in "all" respects with my wife. I want someone I have chemistry with, similar interests, as well as being happy visually to what I'll wake up to every day of my life for the next 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000.... (and counting) years 😄.

Plus my kids could look like my wife lol

[JennyM]

Ok .. American physicist Michio Kaku says that healthy hormones create beautiful features. ..... Being pretty or handsome means the individual is healthy. 

Our CO is not that handsome but he got a beautiful mind.. very smart and spiritual and he chose a sister in his league.. The sister is not so attractive but spiritual 

 

We also have CO here who happened to be my PSS instructor and his wife looks like a guy.... The whole class was  talking about that... What did he like on that sister?lol!

 

With my 38 years of existence, and I have a daughter. I still dont understand men..... So If I survive Armageddon, I will remain single for hundreds of years.... or maybe thousands.. That would be nice.. Until I understand mens mind.... 

Edited December 4, 2020 by JennyM

[Cushi]

3 minutes ago, JennyM said:

With my 38 years of existence, and I have a daughter. I still dont understand men..... So If I survive Armageddon, I will remain single for hundreds of years.... or maybe thousands.. That would be nice.. Until I understand mens mind.... 

I find it hard to understand when women say they don’t understand men. Men are simple and easy to please. Women are the ones that are complicated 😆

 

Jokes aside, Jehovah made us in such a way that we seek to understand the other sex 🙂

[coony77]

5 minutes ago, JennyM said:

With my 38 years of existence, and I have a daughter. I still dont understand men..... So If I survive Armageddon, I will remain single for hundreds of years.... or maybe thousands.. That would be nice.. Until I understand mens mind.... 

🤔 ...mmmhhh....maybe you should invest a few thousand years for that project. Be realistic. 

[Amygdala]

Marriage is a big deal, and I have seen brothers who weren't at the time MS or elders become so after they married their wives, so there is definitely more to marrying someone than title. But it's good to test if someone is truly spiritual from the heart vs. just playing spiritual. It is not hard to spot on both sides.

 

Regarding chemistry, in some countries marriages are still arranged by parents. Also some may have married young perhaps with the wrong intentions - to get away from parents, or looks, etc., but it is possible to grow together as a couple in love. Even if a couple have strong chemistry in the beginning, if it's just physical, then that will quickly die off. So there should be a certain amount of emotional maturity in a prospective mate, including definitely a spiritual routine and outlook.

 

My husband and I were just friends hanging out in groups the month he was visiting Canada when we met. But he noticed that I had brought up saying I was having challenges doing my weekly bible reading when we were all out in service one day. I had been working f/t and attending night school 2-3 nights a week, although I was still active and associating in the congregation. So it was a nice surprise when he returned back to Germany and asked one day if we could do the weekly bible reading over the phone. At that point we were just friends, although there was something more, and it did become so.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Lieblingskind

[Amygdala]

Also as a tip - take an interest in his or her family if there are family photos, or pictures on their phone, or dog or if they have any pets. When my husband first walked into my apartment with a group of friends, he noticed some old black and white photos of my family at the entrance, and right away asked me about if it was my family. Don't be stalkerish, though. lol But if there is something to take an interest in, or similar hobbies, or other interests, take notice!

[M.J.]

"The way a man treats his mother is the way he will treat his wife"

[Katty]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:06 PM, EccentricM said:

It seems then, modern culture and all the men who play with women's feelings and how many today flirt for fun, have had an influence on most women today. Because so many men are flirtatious without being genuine, it's made it so women don't take the men who actually mean it seriously....

I think this is absolutely why. Especially if you have a history of spending a lot of time with people in the world, you get used to how the guys communicate, and they'll often be flirty even if they don't have any intentions on you, whereas, in contrast, I find a lot of brothers are very subtle or don't show signs unless they're sure or feel confident that you reciprocate their feelings.

P.S. David and I often wondered if he asked me out or if I asked him out, first, due to how it came out when we first talked about dating haha.
 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Katty

[blueyellow]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:22 AM, Brother Jack said:

Just like it’s not wise to get married just to enjoy sexual relations.

Yet, the Bible allows for that.

The worst reason to get married, but an approved one.

[blueyellow]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, Nelly Michael said:

I agree completely. It's best for the Brother to express himself frankly, to avoid misunderstanding. 

I don't like giving or looking for "signs" you're liked.

 

I've seen some sisters in my area who saw signs in every brother. 

One sister was even sure the single CO liked her because he shook her hand "in a certain way", he said hello "in a certain tone" and so on.

There was a single special pioneer brother in our congregation and several sisters were convinced he liked them.

 

Flirting/"signing" is hurtful.

But also sisters watching one too many romcoms and imagining everything's a love story is showing lack of self-discipline of modesty of... I don't know.

[Cushi]

1 hour ago, blueyellow said:

Yet, the Bible allows for that.

The worst reason to get married, but an approved one.

Yes, it does allow for it but only in extreme situations, which I started to mention in my post. 

[LoneWanderer]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:20 PM, EccentricM said:

People seek out someone with a "position", or a label, as opposed to actually dating the person for who they are as an individual. That being said on the otherside, someone may date someone with a position as they deem that as "part" of their personalilty, wanting someone who has an outgoing pioneer lifestyle or what have you.

There is also the other side of the coin when someone wants to marry someone with a certain position/status in Jehovah's organization. Years ago, a sister in my congregation really wanted to get married. While there's absolutely nothing wrong about having high standards, or wanting to marry someone who exhibits spiritual qualities, it could backfire if that person themselves has nothing to offer.

 

We were talking about this with a friend of mine who was an elder and a pioneer in the same congregation, and he had an interesting point to make (along the lines of): "If you only want to marry someone who is an elder and a pioneer, what do you have to offer? Why would I be interested in you?" If our standards get so strict that you don't see the forest from the trees, this could hinder you from seeing that there an interesting, spiritually-minded men and women in the congregation who for reason or another are not able to be elders and/or pioneers. As far as I know, this particular sister is still unmarried, still looking.

 

My wife has told me that while I wasn't appointed when we started courting, she did notice that it was my goal that I working toward. That made her feel more at ease when trying to find out if we were compatible for each other.

[blueyellow]

13 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

Yes, it does allow for it but only in extreme situations, which I started to mention in my post. 

Yes, you mentioned being lonely. Were these the circumstances you were referring to?

 

You are right, it is an unwise decision.

[Katty]

Putting my two cents in dating people with a position in the congregation: I do think it's not good to say "I only date pioneers or minesterial servants, etc.", because sometimes a person may want such a position but their circumstances don't allow it, but I think in a situation, like if you meet someone over long distances, I can see why preferring someone with a position in the congregation can serve many advantages. When you meet someone in an online setting like this one, it's really difficult to establish the person's standing and reputation in the congregation, so if someone shows evidence that they're a Servant or that they are a pioneer or pioneered in the past, it gives so much more evidence to reassure you that they are firm in the truth and, not just coasting, so to speak. Of course not all pioneers or Servants are equally spiritual as that's a continuous process, but having a position, shows that person put work into reaching out for more responsibility.

[Thesauron]

Yes, it does allow for it but only in extreme situations, which I started to mention in my post. 

What would such ‘extreme situations’ be?

[Amygdala]

Also if someone goes the online route, be careful of victim stories. There's always 2 sides to every story. Especially if say someone has been divorced, for example 5 times, and it was always the fault of the other party. Also it's good whether in person or online to speak to someone from the said person's congregation - if they are regular at the meetings, and general spiritual activity. The elders of course can't reveal too much, but proceed with caution. Also, if they do not want you to visit their country or home surroundings, or family, then they may be hiding something.

 

I knew of a brother (using the term loosely) who met his partner on a jw site, and even though his future wife did have a phone call arranged, the congregation could only say so much. As soon as this brother moved abroad and married her, it wasn't long before he used the opportunity to start an exporting business, and left his wife and moved elsewhere.

[Amygdala]

Also I am not sure how much elders can reveal if there are deep seated issues with a person, for eg. depression, anxiety, or some other health problems that someone may not know if they do meet a prospective person. The person should be honest about those things right up front, just to be fair to their future mate. I also know of a situation where someone's partner became more or less the caretaker of the person they met online - giving up regular pioneering in their home country to a life not at all imagined and now limited with language, new marriage and other cultural differences.

[Cushi]

5 hours ago, blueyellow said:

Yes, you mentioned being lonely. Were these the circumstances you were referring to?

 

You are right, it is an unwise decision.

The situation I was referring to is when someone’s sex drive is so strong to the point where they feel like remaining chaste is pretty much impossible.

[blueyellow]

6 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

The situation I was referring to is when someone’s sex drive is so strong to the point where they feel like remaining chaste is pretty much impossible.

Yes, this is the situation the Bible talks about.

[Hope]

5 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

The situation I was referring to is when someone’s sex drive is so strong to the point where they feel like remaining chaste is pretty much impossible.

Even still, marriage may not be an option.  You still can't just pick someone out of the crowd and say, "hey, you! get over here and marry me right now!!!"  😉   

 

You either have to get that drive under control or commit fornication.  Remaining chaste is never "impossible".  It is a choice that is made.

[Thesauron]

The situation I was referring to is when someone’s sex drive is so strong to the point where they feel like remaining chaste is pretty much impossible.

Is this an ‘extreme’ situation?

[Cushi]

8 hours ago, Hope said:

Even still, marriage may not be an option.  You still can't just pick someone out of the crowd and say, "hey, you! get over here and marry me right now!!!"  😉   

 

You either have to get that drive under control or commit fornication.  Remaining chaste is never "impossible".  It is a choice that is made.

I was referring to 1 Corinthians 7:9. The brother or sister with the acute sex drive may feel like they “do not have self control.” 

 

9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry, for it is better to marry than to be inflamed with passion