Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[LeolaRootStew]

14 minutes ago, Abigail said:

I thought you also wanted evidence that there was a cry of peace in Jerusalem in 66 CE? That's it.

 

Well thank you, and I'm saving that video in my End Times playlist. It's a great resource. 

[BLEmom]

17 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

I've been looking at 1Thessalonians, and Chapter 5 is talking about Jehovah's Day, which we identify as the destruction of Jerusalem (which was several decades in the future for Paul).

Where are you finding that this was a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem?  I’ve been looking and I haven’t found a reference that states this. Not yet anyway…I even checked the SI book and noted that the end of chapter 4 referred to the resurrection hope which took place during the lords day which started in 1914. 
 

Jehovahs day in 5:2 refers to the great tribulation. 
 

I also like this article for series of events

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019561#h=13:0-16:0

[Abigail]

5 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Where are you finding that this was a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem?  I’ve been looking and I haven’t found a reference that states this. Not yet anyway…I even checked the SI book and noted that the end of chapter 4 referred to the resurrection hope which took place during the lords day which started in 1914. 
 

Jehovahs day in 5:2 refers to the great tribulation. 
 

I also like this article for series of events

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019561#h=13:0-16:0

 

Double fulfillment. See study notes to 1 Thess 5.

 

"In the first fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy, that “day of Jehovah” came upon Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. Here at 1Th 5:2, Paul speaks of a future day of Jehovah that corresponds to the “great tribulation” that Jesus foretold at Mt 24:21."

 

 

[LeolaRootStew]

3 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Where are you finding that this was a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem?  I’ve been looking and I haven’t found a reference that states this. Not yet anyway…I even checked the SI book and noted that the end of chapter 4 referred to the resurrection hope which took place during the lords day which started in 1914. 
 

Jehovahs day in 5:2 refers to the great tribulation. 
 

I also like this article for series of events

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019561#h=13:0-16:0

 

I got that from the use of "Jehovah's Day".

 

[BLEmom]

6 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I got that from the use of "Jehovah's Day".

 

True but note that it says Paul was speaking of the great day of Jehovah in relation to Matt 24 which is talking about Jesus presence. That relates to the time beginning in 1914.  Even the notes at the beginning of 1 Thess states that 4:14-5:11 are Comments about the resurrection and the coming of Jehovah’s day. 
 

[BLEmom]

Just a little more food for thought…

There are multiple references to “day of Jehovah “ in the Bible. You can find more info in the Insight book under Day of Jehovah. Some were in the past. Some are referenced to have dual fulfillment like the one from Joel. 

However when you read the book of Thessalonians and the references, we see that Paul’s mind is looking further and firmly into the future. He is looking at the day of our lord. His minds eye was fixed on Jesus coming presence. 

So trying to find dual fulfillment of 1 Thess chapter 5 doesn’t make sense. In chapter 4:15 when he discusses surviving to the  presence of our lord, the references refer to  those resurrected during the lords day when Jesus presence started in 1914. 

 

Even in the second letter to that congregation…in chapter 1 read verses 6-8 and the references. Again referring to the lords day.   In chapter 2 he says the great apostasy will come first. 

I think you mistakenly have tried to find a dual fulfillment here when that is not what is meant or referenced. It’s understandable but could cause confusion if you are trying to work out the timing based on events in Jerusalem. 

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, BLEmom said:

I think you mistakenly have tried to find a dual fulfillment here when that is not what is meant or referenced. It’s understandable but could cause confusion if you are trying to work out the timing based on events in Jerusalem. 

 

I think you may be right. I can't find anything about 1Th 5:3 being applied to anything except our time. I hope this means their destruction will be very quick (from a human perspective). 💜

 

I still have questions about who makes the cry since it seems to imply that the one destroyed is the same one who cried P&S, and we believe BtG will be destroyed, but we say it may be part of P&S.

[BLEmom]

32 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I think you may be right. I can't find anything about 1Th 5:3 being applied to anything except our time. I hope this means their destruction will be very quick (from a human perspective). 💜

 

I still have questions about who makes the cry since it seems to imply that the one destroyed is the same one who cried P&S, and we believe BtG will be destroyed, but we say it may be part of P&S.

Look at paragraph 8 of the Armageddon article I linked earlier. All references point to the world leaders proclaiming peace and security with religious leaders possibly joining in. 
That makes sense due to the prophecies regarding the UN and its own purpose as a bringer of peace to the world. 
Also, it makes sense due to revelation’s prophecy regarding the beasts. I need to look more but haven’t seen any info yet if the proclaiming of peace comes from the 7 headed beast or the image of the wild beast. We know it’s the image of the wild beast that represents the UN and destroys the harlot. 

[LeolaRootStew]

28 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Look at paragraph 8 of the Armageddon article I linked earlier. All references point to the world leaders proclaiming peace and security with religious leaders possibly joining in. 
That makes sense due to the prophecies regarding the UN and its own purpose as a bringer of peace to the world. 
Also, it makes sense due to revelation’s prophecy regarding the beasts. I need to look more but haven’t seen any info yet if the proclaiming of peace comes from the 7 headed beast or the image of the wild beast. We know it’s the image of the wild beast that represents the UN and destroys the harlot. 

 

I'm familiar with the articles that say so, I'm just trying to prove it to myself using the scriptures only.

[Percy]

3 hours ago, BLEmom said:

Where are you finding that this was a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem?  I’ve been looking and I haven’t found a reference that states this. Not yet anyway…I even checked the SI book and noted that the end of chapter 4 referred to the resurrection hope which took place during the lords day which started in 1914. 

I suppose that some see other examples of the call of P&S as examples of the final one. Historically in 1914, when the one month Ultimatum was given, the Austrian Emperor accepted the Serbian response and reluctant to sign a Declaration of War, but the actions of others pushed the war ahead. He called for Peace but it is was now out of his hands. https://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/declaration-war

In the days leading up to WWII, Neville Chamberlain called out 'Peace for our time' while waving a signed document from Hitler: https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-declares-peace-for-our-time-75-years-ago

Hitler signed a 'non-aggression pact' with Stalin to guarantee a peaceful carving up of Poland. Hitler later stabbed him in the back. https://www.history.com/news/the-secret-hitler-stalin-nonagression-pact

 

So a pattern can be seen as using peace between enemies that become lies. This is a lesser application to the scripture in principle.

[NotHereEntirely]

"UN General Assembly declares 2025 as international year of peace"

https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4043298?ln=en

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Year_of_Peace

 

Well declaration is one thing, but will they actually reach it? Looking at Wikipedia, the Baha'is seems quite involved as well.

[BLEmom]

1 hour ago, Percy said:

I suppose that some see other examples of the call of P&S as examples of the final one. Historically in 1914, when the one month Ultimatum was given, the Austrian Emperor accepted the Serbian response and reluctant to sign a Declaration of War, but the actions of others pushed the war ahead. He called for Peace but it is was now out of his hands. https://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/declaration-war

In the days leading up to WWII, Neville Chamberlain called out 'Peace for our time' while waving a signed document from Hitler: https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-declares-peace-for-our-time-75-years-ago

Hitler signed a 'non-aggression pact' with Stalin to guarantee a peaceful carving up of Poland. Hitler later stabbed him in the back. https://www.history.com/news/the-secret-hitler-stalin-nonagression-pact

 

So a pattern can be seen as using peace between enemies that become lies. This is a lesser application to the scripture in principle.

Understood. But we can’t go beyond the things written. We have seen more pulling back from stating things not clearly in scripture from the slave. So we certainly don’t want to draw parallels where they shouldn’t be drawn. 

The surrounding verses have to be considered and those in Thessalonians are clearly showing the prophecy is related to the presence of Jesus which is our time. 

Sometimes as humans we make things more complicated than what they really are. 🙃 

[Sofia]

56 minutes ago, NotHereEntirely said:

"UN General Assembly declares 2025 as international year of peace"

https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4043298?ln=en

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Year_of_Peace

 

Well declaration is one thing, but will they actually reach it? Looking at Wikipedia, the Baha'is seems quite involved as well.

UN Resoution - 78/266

              (...)

     1. Proclaims 2025 the International Year of Peace and Trust;
     2. Underlines that the International Year of Peace and Trust constitutes a means of mobilizing the efforts of the international community to promote peace and trust among nations based on, inter alia, political dialogue, mutual understanding and cooperation, in order to build sustainable peace, solidarity and harmony;
     3. Reiterates that the objective of the effective implementation of the Programme of Action on a Culture of Peace is to strengthen further the global movement for a culture of peace, and calls upon all concerned to renew their attention to this objective;
     4. Calls upon the international community to resolve conflicts through inclusive dialogue and negotiation in order to ensure the strengthening of peace and trust in relations between Member States as a value that promotes sustainable development, peace and security, and human rights;
    5. Invites the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization and the Department of Political and Peacebuilding Affairs of the Secretariat, mindful of the provisions contained in the annex to Economic and Social Council resolution 1980/67, to facilitate the implementation of the International Year; (...)

[BLEmom]

2 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I'm familiar with the articles that say so, I'm just trying to prove it to myself using the scriptures only.

Totally get that, sis.  I was mentioning the article and the book of revelation because in our studies it’s interesting to see what scriptures are linked and how Thessalonians makes sense when compared to the description in Revelation. 

Just some personal thoughts on it…I see the “they” more along the lines of the UN and the harlot together proclaiming peace. So it would come from the image of the wild beast and since false religion rides her and is in “bed” with her, it makes sense to me that it would be a combined proclamation.  It’s more in line of an extraordinary event and that would make it all the more surprising for the beast to turn on her. 
As opposed to the proclamation coming from the 7 headed beast itself without input from the harlot….

But I think the slave is pretty open ended on that.  More of a “we don’t know” thing again. lol

[Ezequiel]

25 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Resolución de la ONU - 78/266

              (...)

     1. Proclama 2025 Año Internacional de la Paz y la Confianza;
     2. Subraya que el Año Internacional de la Paz y la Confianza constituye un medio de movilizar los esfuerzos de la comunidad internacional para promover la paz y la confianza entre las naciones sobre la base, entre otras cosas, del diálogo político, la comprensión mutua y la cooperación, a fin de construir una paz sostenible, solidaridad y armonía;
     3. Reitera que el objetivo de la aplicación efectiva del Programa de Acción sobre una Cultura de Paz es fortalecer aún más el movimiento mundial en favor de una cultura de paz, y pide a todos los interesados que renueven su atención a este objetivo;
     4. Exhorta a la comunidad internacional a resolver los conflictos mediante el diálogo y la negociación inclusivos a fin de garantizar el fortalecimiento de la paz y la confianza en las relaciones entre los Estados miembros como valor que promueve el desarrollo sostenible, la paz y la seguridad y los derechos humanos;
    5. Invita a la Organización de las Naciones Unidas para la Educación, la Ciencia y la Cultura y al Departamento de Asuntos Políticos y de Consolidación de la Paz de la Secretaría, teniendo en cuenta las disposiciones contenidas en el anexo de la resolución 1980/67 del Consejo Económico y Social, a facilitar la celebración del Año Internacional ; (...)

It was also in 2021 😃, i hope this year will be diferent

[Dages]

And the pope announcement next year is a holy year/jubilee year...

Come on

[Doug]

7 hours ago, Abigail said:

 

Inititially there was euphoria in 66CE by the jews in jerusalem.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwb-100_2_VIDEO

 

 

That was a great reference Abigail, thanks.   I didn't catch where there was euphoria, jubilation or such.

 

It mentioned exhilaration (excitement) on the part of the rebels after returning from a rout and plundering of the Romans and their supplies.  They were amped-up, for sure.   But the city was divided and in an uproar.   Those who didn't get out were compelled to pick the team of rebels they wanted to join.   There was no neutrality.

 

Those four years were filled will violence, not peace.   Danger, not security.  Jerusalem didn't matter any more.

[Abigail]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

 

That was a great reference Abigail, thanks.   I didn't catch where there was euphoria, jubilation or such.

 

It mentioned exhilaration (excitement) on the part of the rebels after returning from a rout and plundering of the Romans and their supplies.  They were amped-up, for sure.   But the city was divided and in an uproar.   Those who didn't get out were compelled to pick the team of rebels they wanted to join.   There was no neutrality.

 

Those four years were filled will violence, not peace.   Danger, not security.  Jerusalem didn't matter any more.

 

Sorry euphoria was my word but it is a synonym of exhilaration. Both also involve elation and happiness. This state obviously did not last long. But it was there initially according to Josephus.

Edited May 12 by Abigail

[jrnievas]

1 hour ago, Dages said:

And the pope announcement next year is a holy year/jubilee year...

Come on

 

3 hours ago, NotHereEntirely said:

"UN General Assembly declares 2025 as international year of peace"

https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4043298?ln=en

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Year_of_Peace

 

Well declaration is one thing, but will they actually reach it? Looking at Wikipedia, the Baha'is seems quite involved as well.

 

Let's see how the prophecies will unfold... We'll wait for the exciting part 🫠

[Tortuga]

4 hours ago, Dages said:

jubilee year.

Jubilee year? 

Does he even know what that was? 

[jrnievas]

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Jubilee year? 

Does he even know what that was? 

It's a fastfood chain in the Philippines ..

 

 

 

[Tortuga]

19 minutes ago, jrnievas said:

It's a fastfood chain in the Philippines ..

 

 

 

It's here is California too. 

[Percy]

8 hours ago, Dages said:

And the pope announcement next year is a holy year/jubilee year...

Come on

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/257635/pope-francis-proclaims-2025-jubilee-papal-bull-hope-does-not-disappoint

"A jubilee is a special holy year of grace and pilgrimage in the Catholic Church."

Its actually for pilgrimages, so a money maker for the RCC.

[Richie]

     US President's War in the Jews

 

US Evangelical Pastor is meddling with US / Israel rift. This religion is so attached with Israel affairs due to its belief of rapture and so called end of time prophecy. 

 

One day, it's view will not go unnoticed. Horn will realize how this prostitute justify Israel military action against civilians. This prostitute doesn't care the casualty. She justifies the killing of innocents as inevitable based on what she understands from the Scriptural prophecies. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13 by Richie

[vern]

Year 1987 was suppose to be abig year too.