Religion in the news

[Old]

7 hours ago, Sackedbysapp said:

Funny thing is after watching, I didn’t learn anything. What was the point of this, just gibberish…

Just a case of what goes around comes around. See Marjoe Gortner story. Here he is preaching at age three.

[Percy]

5 hours ago, Old said:

Marjoe Gortner

I remember his movie/documentary where he exposed the corrupt 'revival' industry in 1972. After that he starred in B movies.

[dljbsp]

https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/your-community/1689312/volunteer-women-builders-to-the-fore-in-laois-in-jehovah-s-witnesses-kingdom-hall-build-in-portlaoise.html

Volunteer women builders to the fore in Laois in Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall build in Portlaoise

[Tronora]

3 hours ago, dljbsp said:

https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/your-community/1689312/volunteer-women-builders-to-the-fore-in-laois-in-jehovah-s-witnesses-kingdom-hall-build-in-portlaoise.html

Volunteer women builders to the fore in Laois in Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall build in Portlaoise

 

Thank you! An uplifting article, indeed.

[Doug]

In Iraq, the Parliament passed a law that lowers the legal age of the bride for marriage to NINE years old.

 

The previous law stated that "Marriage requires a sound mind and completing 18 years of age" and included provisions for women fleeing abuse and annulling a contract.

 

The new law was advocated primarily by conservative Shiite lawmakers, as a means to align the law with Islamic principles and reduce Western influence on Iraqi culture.

 

Source: AP

[BLEmom]

5 hours ago, Doug said:

In Iraq, the Parliament passed a law that lowers the legal age of the bride for marriage to NINE years old.

 

The previous law stated that "Marriage requires a sound mind and completing 18 years of age" and included provisions for women fleeing abuse and annulling a contract.

 

The new law was advocated primarily by conservative Shiite lawmakers, as a means to align the law with Islamic principles and reduce Western influence on Iraqi culture.

 

Source: AP

Absolutely disgusting 

[Robinson]

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1581612 - Press conference on Executive Order ending birthright citizenship

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-authorizes-ice-target-schools-churches/story?id=117954409 - Target churches

 

How will this affect some of our brothers in the US, particularly foreign language congregations?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:14 PM by Robinson

[trottigy]

Well, since it is not the law yet as it is being challenged AND since it seems to go against well-established case law - I don't think this executive order will stand the judicial test.

 

I suppose we will wait and see if it passes that test before responding.

 

Interesting read 

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/23/trump-birthright-citizenship-order-challenge-006043

 

Edited Thursday at 06:25 PM by trottigy

[Mike047]

It would seem that there may be many legal challenges coming up in the near future in the US.

[Tortuga]

18 minutes ago, Mike047 said:

It would seem that there may be many legal challenges coming up in the near future in the US.

...only the lawyers win...

[Doug]

To add some context to the topic:   The 14th amendment to the constitution of the USA is called the Citizenship Clause Doctrine.

Citizenship is not automatic, that is to say, there are exceptions.

Here's what the amendment says, paraphrased:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States".

Subject to the jurisdiction thereof excludes children of foreign diplomats, children of members of Indian tribes subject to tribal laws, and children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation.

 

The Trump administration may be applying that last one in its executive order.  Trump also declared a national emergency due to what he describes as illegal immigration invasion.  Also, the military isn't allowed to be used domestically, like law enforcement, unless the country was under attack by a foreign adversary. And troops have been dispatched to the southern border.

So, it could be their argument that the country is under attack by alien enemies in hostile occupation, thus excluding any children born to them here from citizenship.

 

An executive order would be crafted by legal scholars / lawyers so as to have veracity.  But then, there's Proverbs 18:17  "The first to state his case seems right, until the other party cross-examines."

Edited Thursday at 08:58 PM by Doug
make it better

[trottigy]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/23/trump-birthright-citizenship-order-challenge-006043

 

"Arguing for the states, Washington assistant attorney general Lane Polozola labeled as “absurd” the government’s argument that the children of parents living in the country illegally are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States.

 

“Are they not subject to the decisions of the immigration courts?” he asked. “Must they not follow the law while they are here?”

 

He also said the restraining order was warranted because, among other reasons, the executive order would immediately start requiring the states to spend millions to revamp health care and benefits systems to reconsider an applicant’s citizenship status.

 

“The executive order will impact hundreds of thousands of citizens nationwide who will lose their citizenship under this new rule,” Polozola said. “Births cannot be paused while the court considers this case.”

 

 

And just like that it's paused

[GeordieGirl]

Although the word 'churches' is in the link @Robinson shared in her post above, I don't know that the subject matter, her comment, or any of the subsequent ones, are related to religion. 

 

Shouldn't the subject of what Trump wants to do regarding birthright citizenship and immigration be under its own topic?

 

Edited Friday at 03:07 AM by GeordieGirl

[Dages]

11 hours ago, Robinson said:

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1581612 - Press conference on Executive Order ending birthright citizenship

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-authorizes-ice-target-schools-churches/story?id=117954409 - Target churches

 

How will this affect some of our brothers in the US, particularly foreign language congregations?

As we respect the law, I don't think we have any illegals in our ranks, we do as Caesar says.

[Doug]

1 hour ago, Dages said:

As we respect the law, I don't think we have any illegals in our ranks, we do as Caesar says.

 

I don't know how much depends on location, but at least in California, to the best of my knowledge, publishers who are undocumented aliens can be baptized but cannot serve in assignments that require "exemplary" status.  That includes pioneering.

Someone may correct me.

[Percy]

11 hours ago, trottigy said:

Well, since it is not the law yet as it is being challenged AND since it seems to go against well-established case law - I don't think this executive order will stand the judicial test.

He who has the guns, makes the laws. This is short of Martial Law, or is it already?

[Robinson]

2 hours ago, GeordieGirl said:

Although the word 'churches' is in the link @Robinson shared in her post above, I don't know that the subject matter, her comment, or any of the subsequent ones, are related to religion.

I'm sorry. Am I in the wrong area? I thought this fit under the category since it's about people who gather to practice religion inside places of worship. I was wondering if it has any effect on places where we practice our religion as witnesses (kingdom halls, convention, the branch) if that makes sense. But, because of the executive order to make birthright citizenship illegal, it just made me wonder how many more brothers could come under this category. It's a large net. It just made me wonder how much of the foreign language congregations could be affected if this were carried out.

[Robinson]

17 minutes ago, Percy said:

He who has the guns, makes the laws.

I agree here. History has shown that too many leaders ignored their country's constitutional laws and created new laws to maintain power.

[Doug]

28 minutes ago, Robinson said:

 it just made me wonder how many more brothers could come under this category. It's a large net. It just made me wonder how much of the foreign language congregations could be affected if this were carried out.

 

I'm afraid there will be many brothers and sisters looking over their shoulder as they go about their business.  They may try keeping their public activity, even the ministry, to a minimum.    

Maybe the US branch will give the elders some direction on this.

[Dages]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

publishers who are undocumented aliens

isn't it illegal?
How can they answer properly to the Question 20 of the second part of the Baptism questions if they don't apply it?

The elder book doesn't talk about the baptism, but only about already baptized friends. I don't know how long it takes to get proper documents in America though.

[BLEmom]

3 hours ago, Dages said:

isn't it illegal?
How can they answer properly to the Question 20 of the second part of the Baptism questions if they don't apply it?

The elder book doesn't talk about the baptism, but only about already baptized friends. I don't know how long it takes to get proper documents in America though.

Yes, they have done something illegal.

 

However, there are so many varying situations that the way it is handled is: baptism ok, privileges no.  
Some are already here illegally using fake social security numbers. They may have been here 10-20 years before learning the truth. Some are the children, even adult children, of those who crossed illegally.
 

There are also many brothers and sisters who cross illegally for whatever reason.  I know they are counseled in their home country not to but some do it anyway. 

 

When we were in the Spanish congregation years ago, there was a huge influx of Hispanics moving here. Most of them were illegal. Some were witness families and some not. Many came in the truth during that time. There were a lot of baptized brothers who couldn’t be used so for a couple years there were sisters doing the sound and the literature counters.
 

We even had the issue where some were driving without legal licenses so quite a few would drive to the KH for service but couldn’t drive in service so as pioneers we always had to drive people around and drop them off at their Bible studies. We spent a lot of our time being chauffeurs. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Parale]

4 hours ago, Dages said:

isn't it illegal? .... The elder book doesn't talk about the baptism.

 

Questions From Readers: A man I know is progressing toward Christian baptism, but his visa to be in this country has expired [AKA an illegal alien]. What should I advise him?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977211

 

"Onesimus was a slave of a Colossian Christian named Philemon. For some selfish reason Onesimus fled to Rome so he could lose himself in the masses of people there... Take note that while Onesimus was in Rome the apostle Paul did not hand him over to the Roman authorities for punishment as a fugitive slave... Also, we can observe that Onesimus’ situation was not treated as a barrier to his getting baptized."

 

I believe they would not be viewed as being 'exemplary' - so no appointments, pioneering, etc - but ministry and congregation school items all OK.

 

Then AFAIR, once they fill in paperwork etc to notify the authorities, (AKA something in writing that they can show as proof of notification) they can become 'exemplary' and be appointed elder,m/s, pioneer etc, if they qualify otherwise. Principle being that at this point forward it is then up to the authorities how they proceed, and if they choose to deport, delay, give legal status, etc, or whatever.

Edited Friday at 11:09 AM by Parale

[LeolaRootStew]

In my old congregation in Vermont the small Spanish group never grew because when they learned it was wrong to be illegal or to leave their children behind they went back home.

[Shawnster]

15 hours ago, Dages said:

As we respect the law, I don't think we have any illegals in our ranks, we do as Caesar says.

This is not a completely correct statement. Some who immigrate illegally to the US, for example, come into the Truth after arriving in the US. Some who are Witnesses prior to coming to the US might choose to immigrate illegally. 

 

Similarly the law in Bolivia (at least as of a few years ago), for example, is that once reaching a certain age, men had to report to the local military commander for service. Some brothers chose to ignore this requirement so they were in violation of the law. 

 

In both cases these brothers (and sisters) did not qualify for assignments as their violation of the law made meant they were not exemplary. 

 

There may be other examples of brothers and sisters who are not living in full compliance of the law and, while not committing a gross sin, are not exemplary. 

[SteveAus]

a possible rift developing between the Church & Government over Trumps immigration crackdown? 

Quote

 

Vice President JD Vance said Sunday that the US Conference of Catholic Bishops have “not been a good partner in common sense immigration enforcement,” and as a devout Catholic, he hopes “that they’ll do better.”

The group issued a statement earlier this week criticizing several of President Donald Trump’s executive actions cracking down on immigration, including allowing federal immigration authorities to arrest people at churches and schools.

“As a practicing Catholic, I was actually heartbroken by that statement,” Vance said.

Vance suggested the council may have “bottom line” reasons for their stance.

“I think that the US Conference of Catholic Bishops needs to actually look in the mirror a little bit and recognize that when they receive over $100 million to help resettle illegal immigrants, are they worried about humanitarian concerns? Or are they actually worried about their bottom line?” Vance said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”

 

 

Source