UAP / UFO Whistleblower - USA Congress Meeting

[carlos]

Daniel, I am not sure I am following you. You mention many confusing and apparently unrelated ideas which sound a lot like Erich von Däniken books.

 

I don't see the connection between your first point about civilizations from millions of years ago and the second about different spiritual beings, and less your third point about Ezekiel and ancient Mesopotamians who saw flying chariots. Are you suggesting that UFOs and aliens people see are actually spiritual beings? But then you suggest those spiritual beings are not spiritual but ancient civilizations who lived on earth long before man were created and then left into another galaxy in some spacecrafts. Is that what you mean?

 

There are some good points in your post: It's very true that spiritual creatures are extraterrestrials. It's also true that the Bible doesn't reveal everything that happened in the distant past nor describes everything that exists in the universe.

 

On the other hand, there are some misunderstandings there. For example, we do believe all demons are already in Tartarus, which is a debased spiritual condition, while they will be sent to the Abyss in the future. They are different spiritual concepts, not some remote places in the universe. The "foremost princes" in Daniel 10:13 are Jesus and Jehovah. The context in 2 Corinthians 12 makes it clear that the "third heaven" Paul was taken to in a "supernatural vision" was "paradise" (2Co 12:4), not some distant galaxy. "Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, Powers", are you quoting the King James version or are you copying that text from some website?

 

I remember I was very impressed in 1990 with an Awake! issue that discussed the existence of aliens. After explaining that there exist many spiritual creatures who are by definition "extraterrestrial", the What About Life on Other Planets? section made the following reasoning: If Jehovah had created intelligent physical creatures on any other planet, they either remained faithful to their Creator or sinned and fell into imperfection. If they sinned, then they would need Jesus to die for them. But Jesus "died with reference to sin once for all time" (Romans 6:10). If they kept loyal, there was no need to send Jesus to die for us, since all Jehovah had to do was to call them as witnesses to testify that God’s rule does indeed work. I find that reasoning very convincing.

 

[computerwiz]

Here's yer UFOs:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10144532B2/en

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060145019A1/en

 

Just a small sample of em.  The US Military has stuff we wouldn't believe.  I mean, just look at how crazy and advanced AI is these days (and common folk can access it).  The US military does all kinds of experimentation.  "Aliens" is a good cover story.

 

I dunno how to find other patents like that, but clearly at least some of their advanced tech/ideas are publicly accessible.  Go figure!  🤪

[trottigy]

20 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

Here's yer UFOs:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10144532B2/en

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060145019A1/en

 

Just a small sample of em.  The US Military has stuff we wouldn't believe.  I mean, just look at how crazy and advanced AI is these days (and common folk can access it).  The US military does all kinds of experimentation.  "Aliens" is a good cover story.

 

I dunno how to find other patents like that, but clearly at least some of their advanced tech/ideas are publicly accessible.  Go figure!  🤪

 

Interesting article about the "inventor"

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31798/the-secretive-inventor-of-the-navys-bizarre-ufo-patents-finally-talks

 

 

[Tortuga]

24 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

The US military does all kinds of experimentation.  "Aliens" is a good cover story.

Agreed. Do other countries use the same cover story or is the US the only country that reports alien spacecraft?

[computerwiz]

Just now, Tortuga said:

Do other countries use the same cover story or is the US the only country that reports alien spacecraft?

 

I think most other countries are just trying to have a functional army.  I mean look at all the trouble Russia is having with Ukraine...

 

They might have 1 or 2 advanced ideas or tech, but there's a reason why the Anglo-American power is the superpower.  So probably no reason to even worry about a cover story.  😝

[Tortuga]

13 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

 

I think most other countries are just trying to have a functional army.  I mean look at all the trouble Russia is having with Ukraine...

 

They might have 1 or 2 advanced ideas or tech, but there's a reason why the Anglo-American power is the superpower.  So probably no reason to even worry about a cover story.  😝

Do other countries report alien spacecraft even if it isn't a cover story? 

[MontRose]

Hi Carlos, thanks for your reply to my comment.

 

I had to look up the Eric guy. I haven't read any of his books.. but do remember seeing him on History a lot.

 

It is indeed difficult to follow because I’m not presenting a narrative or set of events. I’m simply presenting various possibilities.

“Are you suggesting that UFOs and aliens people see are actually spiritual beings?” - This is one possibility. People throughout history have seen countless beings who are powerful or different than we are, which the Bible may call spiritual, while a modern scientist would call extraterrestrial.

 

“But then you suggest those spiritual beings are not spiritual but ancient civilizations who lived on earth long before man were created and then left into another galaxy in some spacecrafts. Is that what you mean?” - This is another possibility. The fact that there may have been intelligent life on Earth pre-Adam is supported by findings such as Göbekli Tepe and Çatalhöyük, among others. There are hypotheses about these ancient civilizations being wiped off by a global cataclysm (of which there is geological traces, climate change traces, megafauna extinction traces, etc).

 

“we do believe all demons are already in Tartarus, which is a debased spiritual condition, while they will be sent to the Abyss in the future.” I agree here, except that my point about Tartarus is the following. According to the Glossary of Bible Terms (ours), In the Christian Greek Scriptures, a prisonlike abased condition into which the disobedient angels of Noah’s day were cast. Who’s to say that other angels didn’t sin after Noah’s day? We don’t have proof of either case. Also, our conclusion regarding this being a state instead of a literal place cannot be made dogmatic. Note that even our publications compare this to the pagan version of Tartarus.. I’m only presenting the possibility that these could indeed be related and that it could be an actual place. Note the rest of the only text, footnote: Or possibly, “pits.”(putting them in pits). In my mind, Jehovah threw the abhorrent demons who became fathers of nephilim into this dark horrible place, awaiting their reunion with the rest of their pals and Satan. But, of course I can’t be dogmatic either. This isn’t like Sheol or Gehenna or Hades, which the people of that time understood? It’s somehow an entirely different place/ concept? (Meaning, people knew what Gehenna was, and what it meant.. Only now do we have to explain it to people. Same for the rest). The mention of the abyss was not to claim that they are indeed the same, what I meant is that other cultures could be referring to the same things using different words.

 

“The "foremost princes" in Daniel 10:13 are Jesus and Jehovah.” - Can you provide a reference? I haven’t seen a single reference where the org was dogmatic about this. All we have to go on is that Jehovah is the Prince of Princes, but that was always clear..

 

“The context in 2 Corinthians 12 makes it clear that the "third heaven" Paul was taken to in a "supernatural vision" was "paradise" (2Co 12:4), not some distant galaxy.” - Thank you for pointing that out. Paradise is supposed to be on Earth. So where was this? Again, there’s room for interpretation.. how can you be so sure that in today’s terms this wouldn’t be another galaxy? I personally think it is better to keep an open mind.. that way, if you’re ever wrong, your faith wouldn’t have to collapse.

 

“”Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, Powers", are you quoting the King James version or are you copying that text from some website?” - As a matter of fact, I read on my Spanish NWT bible “tronos, dominios, gobiernos […]” - and when I put this text into google got the translation above.. which indeed matches King James, Byington, and pretty much all the rest.. No website. All of this has been of my own research.

 

I remember I was very impressed in 1990 with an Awake! issue that discussed the existence of aliens.

 

From that (very interesting) article: “The Bible indicates that it is very unlikely that God at this point has created intelligent physical creatures on any planets other than our own.” - Notice they said unlikely, not impossible. I find that comforting.

 

“If Jehovah had created intelligent physical creatures on any other planet, they either remained faithful to their Creator or sinned and fell into imperfection. If they sinned, then they would need Jesus to die for them. But Jesus "died with reference to sin once for all time" (Romans 6:10). If they kept loyal, there was no need to send Jesus to die for us, since all Jehovah had to do was to call them as witnesses to testify that God’s rule does indeed work”

 

This is one possibility, sure! And it makes a lot of sense. Nonetheless, why does it have to be the only one? Who’s to say that Jehovah did have some of his creation sin, but instead of the events that unfolded here, maybe they were quick to do as Jehovah feared they might do here: Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.+ Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life+ and eat and live forever,*—” (This is one of my favorite texts).

 

• Also, Jehovah sent Jesus for us. He wouldn't have to do that for others.. There are always several ways of solving a problem, and it depends on the specific set of circumstances.

• If they did not sin, why would they prove anything to us if they are not human, like us? That's like having an angel prove that they can be perfect.

 

You may have to run through some thought experiments to reconcile this.. but it isn’t impossible. We have a habit of thinking we’re the only ones, we’re the only special ones. But… here’s another point for your consideration:

 

Isaiah 45:18. Jehovah made the Earth with a purpose, just like us, and just like everything else. Do you really think he created quadrillions(to whatever exponential you want) of planets, stars, galaxies, etc, for nothing? Or just to sit there being pretty and proving his creative capabilities? Or is it that we just don’t know what’s out there yet? I firmly believe one day we will.. when the new scrolls are opened.

I find this very convincing too.. that Jehovah doesn’t just leave us with what’s written.. but makes a provision to fill us in on many other things that we will probably only be able to understand then..

 

 

Warm love from Costa Rica

[computerwiz]

1 hour ago, MontRose said:

Do you really think he created quadrillions(to whatever exponential you want) of planets, stars, galaxies, etc, for nothing? Or just to sit there being pretty and proving his creative capabilities?

 

Just my imagination on that question: All the rest of the universe is there for angels to learn how to interact with the physical realm.  Just like Jehovah spent eons of time with Jesus...teaching him everything...all the angels have to learn how to properly interact with the physical realm.  They aren't just gifted that knowledge.  We know how everything Jehovah does is a process, it isn't just *snap* and there it is!  So in like manner, the angels don't simply know everything or how to do this or that.  So then how do angels learn how to properly interact with the physical realm and not accidentally wipe out all life?  They have countless planets to practice on.

 

Just my imagination on that.....  😁

[MontRose]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

Do other countries report alien spacecraft even if it isn't a cover story? 

 

People in other countries regularly see UAP. The differences are several:

 

1. Most countries don't have an official way to report sightings
2. Most people don't want to get ridiculed
3. Some people may face backlash or serious repercussions due to not having the same perceived freedoms as people in the US
4. Most government agencies keep UFO topics as top secret
5. There's been several whistleblowers who have stated that there are deliberate misinformation campaigns meant to deter people from this topic, or to ridicule them when they do speak.  (Richard Doty of AFOSI comes to mind).

 

An example of a UFO in another country, clear as day, is right here in my backyard! Check it out..

 

Background: 

 

In 1971, the National Geographic Institute of Costa Rica (IGN) conducted an aerial survey of the country. While flying over Lake Cote, a photographer snapped a picture that captured an unusual object hovering above the water. The object, roughly disc-shaped with a metallic appearance, had no visible wings or propulsion system, defying conventional explanation.

 

 

 

 

Just like this, there are stories and pictures all over the world.. But things become trendy or "viral" so easily in USA, that it casts a shadow on everyone else.. but it isn't like these things aren't everywhere. In fact, mass sightings are documented in Australia and Russia, to mention only two well-documented cases. 

[carlos]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, MontRose said:

“Are you suggesting that UFOs and aliens people see are actually spiritual beings?” - This is one possibility. People throughout history have seen countless beings who are powerful or different than we are, which the Bible may call spiritual, while a modern scientist would call extraterrestrial.

 

I am usually very skeptical of supernatural explanations where there can be a natural explanation. IMO most UFO and alien alleged sightings have a natural explanation. But I agree that demon activity in some cases is a possibility.

 

On 12/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, MontRose said:

“But then you suggest those spiritual beings are not spiritual but ancient civilizations who lived on earth long before man were created and then left into another galaxy in some spacecrafts. Is that what you mean?” - This is another possibility. The fact that there may have been intelligent life on Earth pre-Adam is supported by findings such as Göbekli Tepe and Çatalhöyük, among others. There are hypotheses about these ancient civilizations being wiped off by a global cataclysm (of which there is geological traces, climate change traces, megafauna extinction traces, etc).

 

I agree that there are many things we don't know. However, IMO the suggestions you make do not agree with Bible logic.

 

I don't understand the relation between ancient prehuman civilizations destroyed in a huge cataclism and UFO sightings, but anyway that doesn't agree with Jehovah's way of doing things. If Jehovah created a previous humankind which eventually was destroyed for whatever reasons, then Jehovah's purpose that those individuals filled the earth would have failed. Yet the Bible states clearly that Jehovah's purpose never fails. It is always successful. That's one of the reasons why Jehovah didn't just destroy Adam and Eve and created another couple, his purpose that the earth were filled with the descendants of Adam and Eve has to be fulfilled.

 

*** bh chap. 11 p. 110 par. 11 Why Does God Allow Suffering? ***
Someone might say that God should simply have destroyed the rebels and made a fresh start. But Jehovah had stated his purpose to fill the earth with the offspring of Adam and Eve, and he wanted them to live in an earthly paradise. (Genesis 1:28) Jehovah always fulfills his purposes. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) Besides that, getting rid of the rebels in Eden would not have answered the question that had been raised regarding Jehovah’s right to rule.

 

On 12/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, MontRose said:

Who’s to say that Jehovah did have some of his creation sin, but instead of the events that unfolded here, maybe they were quick to do as Jehovah feared they might do here: Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.+ Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life+ and eat and live forever,*—” (This is one of my favorite texts).

 

The existence of intelligent creatures in other planets doesn't agree with Bible logic either. Consider the connotations of what you are suggesting here. If they sinned and then they quickly ate from their equivalent of the tree of life, that would mean they were smarter than Jehovah, and that he was forced to give them everlasting life despite their rebellion. Neither angels nor demons nor people nor aliens can outwit Jehovah.

 

If some other civilization in other planet sinned, and there was another means of releasing them from sin and imperfection, why would Jehovah not use the same method with us, instead of sending Jesus to die for us which was extremely painful for both Jesus and his Father? It is not logical.

 

On 12/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, MontRose said:

Isaiah 45:18. Jehovah made the Earth with a purpose, just like us, and just like everything else. Do you really think he created quadrillions(to whatever exponential you want) of planets, stars, galaxies, etc, for nothing? Or just to sit there being pretty and proving his creative capabilities? Or is it that we just don’t know what’s out there yet? I firmly believe one day we will.. when the new scrolls are opened.

 

This is a very good point. And I think there is a much simpler answer that doesn't conflict with Bible logic: With perfect humans living forever in the new world, if children keep being born there will come a time when our planet won't be able to house them all. At that point, we will have all those planets out there to colonize and inhabit. An infinite universe is the the perfect place of an ever growing number of perfect humans. And who knows which wonderful things are awaiting for us there? It's very unlikely that other physical intelligent beings exist out there, but there is no reason why Jehovah cannot have created other plants and animals in other planets and maybe other creatures that are completely different from plants and animals. Or maybe he will create them in the future. We have no idea but we do know we will never learn everything Jehovah has created, there will always be something new.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sully313]

i figured this ufo/uap stuff is the "celestial phenomena" we could see.

[navco]

 

[trottigy]

It looks like a smudge on the screen

Edited January 10 by trottigy

[LeolaRootStew]

9 minutes ago, trottigy said:

It looks like a smudge on the screen

 

so does your beard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol, don't hate me