Armageddon...Let's Talk About It

[Ishaya]

12 hours ago, Tortuga said:

 

I'll wait....

 

No, please don't wait ,let's move on, you're doing really great 

[Ishaya]

But I have a question ❓

 

When Armageddon takes place,how will we know that it is Armageddon and not something else.

 

how can we be so sure that it is Armageddon?

[Dolce vita]

50 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

 

 

55 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

But I have a question ❓

 

When Armageddon takes place,how will we know that it is Armageddon and not something else.

 

how can we be so sure that it is Armageddon?

When the commander-in-chief comes on his beautiful steed with all the heavenly army, no one on the whole earth will ask the question anymore, Brother Ishaya

Jehovah said it as a promise but also as a warning: 'All will know.' 

[Timl1980]

1 minute ago, Dolce vita said:

Jehovah said it as a promise but also as a warning: 'All will know.' 

Absolutely!! Well said, and it cuts to the heart of the issue. When that event happens, absolutely NO ONE will have any doubt whatsoever that it IS Armageddon!

[Ishaya]

Im just trying to figure out how we are going to have a really hard time clearing the streets of corpses littered everywhere.

i just wish that the corpses will vaporize instantly and not need to be seen.so that we just have to wake up in the morning to a starkly silent street and neighbourhood,

 

This is why i would wish that Armageddon takes place during the night so that I don't have to see corpses littered on the streets,that would terrify me seriously.

[trottigy]

Just trust Jehovah to work out all those details. If you are still standing after it is over you will be WAY TOO EXCITED to worry about the dead. You can trust that too.

[computerwiz]

2 hours ago, Ishaya said:

Im just trying to figure out how we are going to have a really hard time clearing the streets of corpses littered everywhere.

i just wish that the corpses will vaporize instantly and not need to be seen.so that we just have to wake up in the morning to a starkly silent street and neighbourhood,

 

This is why i would wish that Armageddon takes place during the night so that I don't have to see corpses littered on the streets,that would terrify me seriously.

 

No need to worry!

 

The Great Evening Meal of God  (<-- link to article)

 

²⁰ In Ezekiel’s vision, after the destruction of Gog’s crowd, the birds and the wild animals are invited to a feast! They rid the landscape of carcasses by eating the dead bodies of Jehovah’s enemies. (Ezekiel 39:11, 17-20) John’s next words bring that earlier prophecy vividly to mind: “I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: ‘Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, that you may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.’”—Revelation 19:17, 18.

 

²¹ The angel is “standing in the sun,” a commanding position for attracting the attention of the birds. He invites them to be ready to gorge themselves on the flesh of those about to be slain by the Warrior-King and his heavenly armies. The fact that the dead are to be left on the surface of the ground indicates that they will die in public shame. Like Jezebel of old, they will not have an honorable burial. (2 Kings 9:36, 37) The list of those whose corpses would be left lying there shows the range of the destruction: kings, military commanders, strong men, freemen, and slaves. No exceptions. Every last trace of the rebellious world in opposition to Jehovah will be eliminated. After this, there will no more be a restless sea of confused humans. (Revelation 21:1) This is “the great evening meal of God,” since it is Jehovah who invites the birds to share therein.

[jwhess]

Maybe the picture of those surviving Armageddon that show us leaving the destruction behind and moving forward to better things can be a reassurance.  We focus on the future.

 

*** w22 February pp. 6-7 par. 16 Do You Trust in Jehovah’s Way of Doing Things? ***

Will we be able to trust in Jehovah’s judgments, or will they be a stumbling block for us? Clearly, we need to strengthen our trust in Jehovah now so that we will trust him implicitly in the future.

Might we have similar thoughts [to Israelites complaining after being freed] after the great tribulation comes to its end? We do not know how much work will be involved in removing the effects of the destruction and in gradually making the earth a paradise. Likely, there will be a lot of work to do and some inconveniences at first. Would we dare to complain about what Jehovah provides at that time? One thing is certain: The more we appreciate Jehovah’s provisions now, the more likely we will do so then.

 

*** g89 10/8 p. 9 War—Coping With the Aftermath ***

Armageddon will have no horrible aftereffects, no recurring nightmares or other psychological wounds. God’s new world will fulfill the prophetic picture painted at Isaiah 65:17-19: “The former things will not be called to mind, . . . and no more will there be heard . . . the sound of weeping or the sound of a plaintive cry.”

 

[Timl1980]

3 hours ago, computerwiz said:

After this, there will no more be a restless sea of confused humans

This sentence stands out immediately to me, and speaks to me personally. 

 

Every single day I see a tiny portion of that restless sea...and not only are they confused, they are lost in absolute darkness. 

 

They commit long and short term suicide in every way imaginable...if only through daily abuse of drugs and alcohol, illicit and immoral sex...the list goes on and on.

 

They are wicked...yes... but they are also hopelessly lost and completely unwilling to change at that point in history...and the only true solution is Jehovah's righteous judgement to put an end to it... permanently.

 

After all, looking at it from Jehovah's standpoint, at this point in time...the kindest thing Jehovah can do is to simply end their lives...unlike false religions idea of an eternity spent burning in some unimaginable hellfire.

 

9 minutes ago, jwhess said:

Armageddon will have no horrible aftereffects, no recurring nightmares or other psychological wounds.

I really enjoyed this sentence as well, the reassurance of those words coupled with the love that Jehovah has for each one of us should assure us that he would not allow us to wallow in psychological torment over these events while we are growing to perfection. 

 

In order for his will to be done, those events have to be left in the past...our focus would have to be on the glorious future that we would be walking into. 

 

Cleaning up the Earth is going to take a long time, helping the resurrected ones to learn about Jehovah and his son is going to take a lot of our time and energy... the joy that we will feel at that time will be so great, so overwhelming, that nothing will be able to dampen or put it out.

[Ishaya]

5 hours ago, computerwiz said:

 

No need to worry!

 

The Great Evening Meal of God  (<-- link to article)

 

²⁰ In Ezekiel’s vision, after the destruction of Gog’s crowd, the birds and the wild animals are invited to a feast! They rid the landscape of carcasses by eating the dead bodies of Jehovah’s enemies. (Ezekiel 39:11, 17-20) John’s next words bring that earlier prophecy vividly to mind: “I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: ‘Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, that you may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.’”—Revelation 19:17, 18.

 

²¹ The angel is “standing in the sun,” a commanding position for attracting the attention of the birds. He invites them to be ready to gorge themselves on the flesh of those about to be slain by the Warrior-King and his heavenly armies. The fact that the dead are to be left on the surface of the ground indicates that they will die in public shame. Like Jezebel of old, they will not have an honorable burial. (2 Kings 9:36, 37) The list of those whose corpses would be left lying there shows the range of the destruction: kings, military commanders, strong men, freemen, and slaves. No exceptions. Every last trace of the rebellious world in opposition to Jehovah will be eliminated. After this, there will no more be a restless sea of confused humans. (Revelation 21:1) This is “the great evening meal of God,” since it is Jehovah who invites the birds to share therein.

 

 

Wow 😲

That sight of scavenger birds tearing flesh of corpses will surely be a horrifying sight,

 

Why would Jehovah want us to see that?

 

I would have wished that the bodies will vapourize or just vanish miraculously.

 

 

Edited June 24 by Ishaya

[Dages]

Maybe we won't have to see that.

[BLEmom]

I guess I’ve never worried about Armageddon itself because I know Jehovah promised protection. 
Examples of salvation we have:
Noah and his family 

Lot and his daughters 

Plagues on Egypt even included death of firstborn

Israel at the Red Sea 

Hezekiah and the Israelites 

Jerusalem in 70ce

 

When we listen and obey….we are blessed. 
The main thing is to be in the habit of it now so it won’t be hard when things get crazy. 
 

The GT worries me only in the sense I hope I keep my integrity regardless of what happens. But if I am doing it now and keep Jehovah in mind, then chances are I will continue to do so. 
But once we are done with the GT and it’s time for Armageddon, as long as I am still faithful, I will be cheering!  Down with this wicked system of things!

 

[jwhess]

How much of the word picture is "symbolic"?  We know that real birds do not ordiarily eat the bones of carcasses.  So do we imagine that billions of dead carcasses are reduduce to bones to be left lying around for years?

 

Ezekiel 39:12-15 suggest human burial.  Is that symbolic?

"The house of Israel will spend seven months burying them in order to cleanse the land. All the people of the land will work at burying them, and this will bring them fame in the day that I glorify myself,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. “‘Men will be assigned to pass through the land constantly and bury the bodies left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. They will continue the search for seven months. When those who pass through the land see a human bone, they will set up a marker beside it. Then those assigned to do the burying will bury it in the Valley of Haʹmon-Gog."

 

 

Edited June 24 by jwhess

[Ishaya]

1 hour ago, jwhess said:

. Likely, there will be a lot of work to do and some inconveniences at first.

 

 

This reminds me of what I have constantly worried about each time I look at those gigantic skyscrapers and complex buildings in mega cities,

 

These people have no idea the volume of work they will leave behind for we that will have to clear out those structures after Armageddon,

 

Imagine mega cities like New York,or Tokyo,how many years will it take to clear out the massive structures in those cities,before we can even begin to implement Jehovah's construction projects for the new earth.

[computerwiz]

15 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

 

 

Wow 😲

That sight of scavenger birds tearing flesh of corpses will surely be a horrifying sight,

 

Why would Jehovah want us to see that?

 

I would have wished that the bodies will vapourize or just vanish miraculously.

 

 

 

I seriously doubt He's gonna let us see that. 

 

As @BLEmom suggested, we have many examples of the past where Jehovah's servants were spared such gruesome details. So again, I wouldn't worry too much. 😉

 

[jwhess]

1 minute ago, computerwiz said:

 

I seriously doubt He's gonna let us see that. 

 

As @BLEmom suggested, we have many examples of the past where Jehovah's servants were spared such gruesome details. So again, I wouldn't worry too much. 😉

 

I wouldn't worry about is either.  But we can't compare this destruction against any Jehovah did before.  It is 1000's of times worse in both the scope of area affected, numbers of oppsers to be killed, number of the faithful to be saved and shielded and the use of incredible heavenly armies and so on.  Nothing like this has ever happened before on a scale that surpasses human comprehension,

 

We wait, we trust and we survive.  The end of this war is guaranteed...we WIN...💗

[Ishaya]

25 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

 

The GT worries me only in the sense I hope I keep my integrity regardless of what happens.

 

 

Seriously,I think we need to also talk about the challenges that we may encounter during GT and how we can possibly overcome them.

 

I really worry about this issue,

Imagine you're lock in prison without food endlessly,and all you have to do is to renounce your faith and sign the papers,

 

The question is,for how long will you be able to endure without food before you decide what to do?

can we sign the papers even if we won't renounce our faith like the papers may suggest? will Jehovah understand?

 

Honestly I use food because for me I really have low tolerance for hunger.

[Ishaya]

4 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

 

Seriously,I think we need to also talk about the challenges that we may encounter during GT and how we can possibly overcome them.

 

I really worry about this issue,

Imagine you're lock in prison without food endlessly,and all you have to do is to renounce your faith and sign the papers,

 

The question is,for how long will you be able to endure without food before you decide what to do?

can we sign the papers even if we won't renounce our faith like the papers may suggest? will Jehovah understand?

 

Honestly I use food because for me I really have low tolerance for hunger.

 

Or imagine a brother who is a diabetic or with other serious medical conditions being held in prison and ask to renounce their faith before they get treatment.

 

I know there will be numerous challenges but how can we go about these issues.

 

[Ishaya]

Sometimes I wonder,

Does signing papers of renouncing someone's faith under duress really matter to Jehovah?

Is it not what is truely in someone's heart that matters?

[dljbsp]

17 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

Seriously,I think we need to also talk about the challenges that we may encounter during GT and how we can possibly overcome them.

 

I really worry about this issue,

Imagine you're lock in prison without food endlessly,and all you have to do is to renounce your faith and sign the papers,

 

The question is,for how long will you be able to endure without food before you decide what to do?

can we sign the papers even if we won't renounce our faith like the papers may suggest? will Jehovah understand?

 

Honestly I use food because for me I really have low tolerance for hunger.

We are encouraged not to be overly concerned about the challenges they may face during the Great Tribulation, as our faith in Jehovah provides us with confidence and assurance. Several key points support this perspective:

 

1. Divine Assurance and Protection: Jehovah has promised that the days of the Great Tribulation will be cut short for the sake of His chosen ones, ensuring our survival and the continuation of true worship (Mark 13:19, 20). This assurance helps believers maintain their confidence even in the face of impending trials https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2019/stay-faithful-through-great-tribulation/ .

2. Emphasis on Community and Love: We are encouraged to strengthen our bonds of love and unity within our congregations. This unity and mutual support are seen as vital for enduring the hardships that may come during the Great Tribulation. Love and compassion among us will be crucial for our survival and spiritual well-being (Romans 15:7; 1 John 3:17, 18)  . https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2023/Are-You-Ready-for-the-Great-Tribulation/

3. Facing the Tribulation with Confidence: We have learned that while the Great Tribulation will bring unprecedented challenges, we will face it with full confidence and trust in Jehovah. Our faith assures them that they are on the “winning side” and that Jehovah will provide the necessary support and guidance to endure (Matthew 24:21, 22) . https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977043

4. Preparation and Compassion: By preparing spiritually and cultivating compassion now, you can remain calm and supportive of one another during the tribulation. This preparation includes regular worship, maintaining high moral standards, and helping fellow believers in times of need (Hebrews 10:24, 25; Revelation 13:16, 17) . https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2023/Are-You-Ready-for-the-Great-Tribulation/

 

 

 

 

[computerwiz]

24 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

Seriously,I think we need to also talk about the challenges that we may encounter during GT and how we can possibly overcome them.

 

Brother Sanderson gave a talk on this. Said we don't need to imagine being tortured and having our teeth pulled out or other stuff like that. I forget what broadcast or convention it was from. Would be cool if we could find it...

 

3 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

Sometimes I wonder,

Does signing papers of renouncing someone's faith under duress really matter to Jehovah?

Is it not what is truely in someone's heart that matters?

 

Those faithful in least are faithful in much greater.

 

Can we really say we would give our life in service for Jehovah if we take the first chance we get to save ourselves? Would we not be making Satan's statement true...that man would give anything to save his flesh? 🤔

[Timl1980]

17 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

 

Brother Sanderson gave a talk on this. Said we don't need to imagine being tortured and having our teeth pulled out or other stuff like that. I forget what broadcast or convention it was from. Would be cool if we could find it...

I would love to find this talk!! If anyone finds it, please let me know ASAP!! Thank you for the reference Jeremy, that talk would make an awesome family worship!

[computerwiz]

22 minutes ago, Timl1980 said:

I would love to find this talk!! If anyone finds it, please let me know ASAP!! Thank you for the reference Jeremy, that talk would make an awesome family worship!

 

If I've seen it, I probably have it. Unless it was a convention. Then it's 50/50 if I have it. 😅

 

I will look later! But it was 2-3 years ago, just FYI for anyone else looking. 

[computerwiz]

I just remembered I took notes on it. So I know exactly where it is now!

 

Regional Convention 2018 - Be Courageous

 

Sunday afternoon

 

Talk: There are More with us Than Against Us

 

 

I don't think I have it. But I'll dig as soon as I get back from my bike ride. 

 

PS - so much for 2-3 years. Man time flies!!!

Edited June 24 by computerwiz

[Dolce vita]

11 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

 

Si je l'ai vu, je l'ai probablement. À moins que ce ne soit une convention. Alors c'est 50/50 si je l'ai. 😅

 

Je regarderai plus tard ! Mais c'était il y a 2-3 ans, juste pour info pour tous ceux qui le cherchent. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

 

If I've seen it, I probably have it. Unless it was a convention. Then it's 50/50 if I have it. 😅

 

I will look later! But it was 2-3 years ago, just FYI for anyone else looking. 

I don't know if this is the talk you're thinking of, brother Jeremy, but I think that brothers @Timl1980and @Ishaya will appreciate. Wonderful talk :

https://www.jw.org/fr/bibliothèque/videos/#fr/mediaitems/2020Convention/pub-co-r20_107_VIDEO