JW Parents take their sick boy from hospital

[Shawnster]

This is truly a heart-wrenching situation and I'm sure we'll keep a very close eye on this situation as it continues to develop.  Since we don't have all the facts, and can only rely upon biased news media sources, the moderators have decided to close this topic.

 

Please keep all involved in your thoughts and prayers. 

[PottersClay]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29001388

Its so sad. The parents managed to keep the boy well despite what the hospital suggested would happen. The reason for them taking off was to seek medical treatment they had been refused in the UK. Sounds like hospital politics got in the way of the child receiving treatment and the parents did what they could to try and get him that treatment. I can't believe they were arrested for that under the name of "neglect" when evidently the child had not suffered in the way that the doctors said he would have because of the whole battery thing.

I also struggle to believe doctors didn't know why the parents had taken the child, they must have at least suspected it was to get this treatment. So why didn't the media report that part? Because then it sounds more like what most parents would do if they thought they could save their child's life and not like some controversial 'crazy jw' medical idea. Strange that the article has now dropped the witness references in this update.

[On the huh]

I would like to repeat the scripture that Stavro gave in the other thread (Proverbs 18:13) When anyone replies to a matter before he hears the facts, It is foolish and humiliating.  I think I was guility of that, not knowing the facts.  Watching Sky News this morning, and to now seems that many are in support of the parents actions.  Lets hope the boy gets the treatment he needs and gets better soon.  .

As the mods closed the other thread, they might do the same with this, so thats all I'm going to say.

[PottersClay]

The daily mail also has a post about this but it is written with a bias against the family. In the fathers video he describes his son as a "healthy child" and the article focuses on how the boy is dying but his dad says he is healthy, making it seem as if the father has delusions. However according to the fathers video he says that his son in healthy in the relative sense that he is not in danger because of their actions, the fact that he knows his son is not well is made clear because he later states that the boy "is sick".

The real sad thing here is the media capitalisation of this family's suffering and sensational reporting of the story.

[PottersClay]

I would like to repeat the scripture that Stavro gave in the other thread (Proverbs 18:13) When anyone replies to a matter before he hears the facts, It is foolish and humiliating.  I think I was guility of that, not knowing the facts.  Watching Sky News this morning, and to now seems that many are in support of the parents actions.  Lets hope the boy gets the treatment he needs and gets better soon.  .

As the mods closed the other thread, they might do the same with this, so thats all I'm going to say.

I dare say they might, I would have posted this in that thread had it still been open.

I hope he gets treatment too. This is according to a 'friend' quoted in the daily mail article, apparently the doctors had stated that the boy has only four months to live anyway because of the nature of the tumour.

[Cool Cat]

It also should be noted that contrary to what was previously mentioned there was no instruction from the branch office for the Kings to turn themselves in.

 

What actually was said was:-

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1326571/missing-ashya-fears-feeding-tube-has-run-out

Guy Canonici, the president of the Jehovah's Witnesses in France, has told Sky News he has put over 1,000 Kingdom Halls (places of worship) on alert for the missing boy.

He said so far no one had come forward with any information.

 

Congregations were encouraged to look out for them but at no point was anybody instructed to give themselves up, unless someone can find another statement to this fact.

 

I am just glad that the boy and the family are all safe and my prayers are with them. They committed no crime in seeking better care for their child as was stated in the news. It is unfortunate that it has been portrayed in the news as the family putting the child at risk when actually it was the direct opposite. This is usually the stance of people when we try to choose better health care for our children other than using blood.

 

They didn't seem to go against any direction from the branch office, unless, there was a direct request to turn themselves in.

Edited August 31, 2014 by MentalProject

[Adelin]

I hope this thread is gonna be free of judging and not be closed so that we can know what is going on

[Miss Bea]

Yep. Go back to the case in Canada. The Cyrenne family. Child mortally Illl. They were going to force blood on a child who was going to die any way. Took her home. She did die. The parents and the brother who literally took her from the hospital were all arrested. It resulted in Jehovah's name being vindicated in so many ways.

Part of this account is in our magazines. They took the little girl out of the hospital with hospital personal trying, literally to stop them. Our dear brother, Glen Howe was a part of it. I will listen to that account again. Sometimes Jehovah allows the worst to happen so we can show whom we truly trust.

This account. I don't know much. But I do know the horrible publicity the Cryenne's received. Never mind they lost their dear daughter. The system does not own our children. Jehovah gave them to us imperfect people to do the best we can. So, that being the case, until otherwise, we need to at least support this dear family in prayer, and ask that they are given the wisdom to do what is best. We don't answer to the court system and the media. We answer to Jehovah!

[rocket]

CNN story appears to be a bit neutral. It also gives a link to the fathers video.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/31/world/europe/uk-brain-cancer-boy-found/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Cool Cat]

It is just upsetting to think that Ashya is alone in a Spanish hospital while his parents are arrested for seeking better care for their son.

[bohemian]

On a forum to which I belong which focusses on music and hifi, there has been a thread on this subject.  Initially there were comments about the religious aspect, assuming that our beliefs and blood were at issue, but as facts have become known the atmosphere on that thread has been incredibly supportive of the parents, with many saying that they would have done the same.

 

Rather than having a deleterious effect on Jehovah's name, if anything the parents have been shown to be loving and caring and this is what has been noted more than anything else.

[Cool Cat]

There are many people who are championing them as parents and saying that they think Brett is the best father in the world for doing what he did. The video he published on YouTube showed a loving, caring, eloquent father who was fed up with the treatment he and his son was getting so he has sought the best treatment possible even willing to give up his house to fund it. We always try to tell people that we as Jehovahs Witnesses seek the best treatment possible both for ourselves and our children and this is a public proof of that.

[stuagu]

my.opinion is that a thread on this poor family has been locked... as should this one be.

we know nothing Jehovah knows all.

[trottigy]

Merged.

[trottigy]

This is truly a heart-wrenching situation and I'm sure we'll keep a very close eye on this situation as it continues to develop.  Since we don't have all the facts, and can only rely upon biased news media sources, the moderators have decided to close this topic.

 

Please keep all involved in your thoughts and prayers. 

[rocket]

Now that correct information regarding the facts are now becoming available the moderators feel it is appropriate to unlock this thread. Just a reminder to be on our best behavior.

 

An update:

 

CBS NEWS:

 

Even Britain's deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, wonders whether the heavy hand of police action was what this case really needed.

 

"They're doing it for very strong parental motives, because they think that's what's right for their son," said Clegg. "I would like to see the family reunited and then hopefully people can calmly make a decision about what should happen next."

 

It remained unclear Tuesday whether that would happen anytime soon, but the British Crown Prosecution Service did withdraw its arrest warrant for the boy's parents, suggesting an easing in the official stance on the case.

 

With the arrest warrant dropped, it appeared likely the couple would soon be released from jail in Spain.

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...am-brain-tumor/

[shali]

I went to post this info about an hour ago and found the thread locked and didn't think I should start a new one to let everyone know the outcome so I'm glad you posted this! I hope they can get the treatment they want for their son now and it's not too late!

[Sunshine234]

Just been posted on the bbc news website brother and sister King have now been freed

Yey

[rocket]

Just been posted on the bbc news website brother and sister King have now been freed

Yey

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-29040124

 

Ashya King's parents have freed from custody in Spain after UK prosecutors withdrew a European arrest warrant.

 

Prosecutors had said they were happy any risk to Ashya's life "was not as great or immediate as... originally thought".

 

Ashya is currently being treated in a hospital in Malaga.

In a statement earlier, the Crown Prosecution Service said it had "urgently reviewed the case and we consider there is insufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction for any criminal offence".

[futurepromise]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/02/prosecutors-withdraw-arrest-warrant-ashya-king-parents

[Sallyforth]

To see how UK citizens rallied behind this family once the half-truths and lies perpetrated by the authorities and media were exposed, was quite amazing.

 

So glad the family has been released. I can't imagine how awful it must have been to be falsely imprisoned, knowing that their little boy was deprived of any family contact the past few days. Obviously, the majority of UK citizens felt that empathy, too.

[Toy Poodles]

I am hoping this turns around as a blessing from Jehovah, now that they have a top oncologist coming in to see Ashya. It would be so great if there was some beneficial medical help for him. 

This family will always remember the prayers that they made to Jah in this incident and how Jehovah helped them, very faith strengthening for them and us. 

[carlos]

I have noticed a big turnaround in Spanish newspapers covering this news.

 

The first days, they insisted all the time in the parents being JWs, as if that had anything to do with the situation. Most of the comments by readers were very critical against Witnesses, calling us a dangerous cult, talking about our refusal of blood, and the like.

 

Suddenly, all newspapers have stopped any mention that they were JWs, and some have even stated that the reasons for their behaviour were not religious. I guess the Legal Department at the branch has done it's homework. And surprisingly most comments by readers now are protesting that the religious aspect was even brought up, and saying it wouldn't have been mentioned if they had been Catholics, or Buddhists or Atheists. Many are also feeling identified with the parents and saying they did the right thing.

 

Last night and today there have been representatives from Bethel being interviewed in several national tv channels the whole day, and a great witness has been given. Now everybody knows that Witnesses want the best possible treatment for their children.

[retroHelen]

This whole case was discussed with important people and people allowed to call in with their views on BBC Radio 2.

 

1. Who let it out that these people were Jehovah's Witnesses? BBC's Jeremy Vine said it was someone at the hospital and they will be called to account for doing it as it was irrelevant to the case and had started all sorts of speculation that was just untrue.

 

2. As it was irrelevant to the case, the TV authorities never mentioned it again. So who of the congregations was involved eg elders/HLC would not be discussed by the media. However, newspaper journalists are a different matter. They were the ones sniffing round all sorts of Kingdom Halls pestering people for their opinions and some less experienced ones were giving statements which it was unwise to do without all the facts. 

 

3. BBC Radio 2 called in a top British lawyer - higher than lawyers and barristers - a 'Queen's Counsel' person for his opinion. Having viewed all the information to date he was appalled at the action of the hospital and disappointed in the procedures adopted by the Police.

 

4.We here all saw the Police Officer's statement on TV to the media. He had been falsely told by the hospital that the parents had 'kidnapped' the child when they stated themselves in other videos that they indicated to the hospital what they may have to do if they could not get a chance at the alternative photon-beam treatment and were abruptly treated by the hospital consultant. The reporters pointed out that anyone who is not under the protection of a court has the right to leave hospital - hospital is not a prison. The Police officer was constantly asked by TV reporters  as to why they had issued a warrant for the parent's arrest when a crime had not been committed, so they did not fit the criteria for  a warrant and - noted by the QC barrister - the Police officer could not answer this and was not sure that any crime had been committed, he wasn't sure if there was any neglect - therefore the QC pointed out that the warrant was incorrect procedure in this case.

 

5.The Police Officer said that he was acting in the interest of the child based on the fact the hospital said the child would starve to death as the battery in the feeding machine was running out and the child would starve.This was not true because plenty of nurses could tell the media - and equally the Police if they had enquired- that the machine plugged into the electricity mains and one of the family's son had already put up footage to show they had plenty of food for the feeding machine to process. The child would not starve and was stable enough to be moved.

 

The QC barrister pointed out that a first stage should have been a legal protection order, not a warrant, to European authorities, to find the parents and have Police interview them and then to decide what to do based on the interview because no crime had been committed.

 

The next point the QC also noted was that immediately the Youtube of the Father's words went out, the hospital got a specialist to come on TV to back up the statement they said that the photon treatment was no good, the boy's cancer was too large, yet later as public opinion began to sway against what they'd done, and the boy's tumour had mostly been removed, they let out another statement saying that they had offered to help them get the photon treatment!

 

In my part of Britain, although your elders like to know that you are going into hospital, the HLC is not informed unless there is an issue regarding blood transfusion and most hospitals have access to cell saver machines and alternatives so it is not so common an issue for elective surgery here, but we do not actually know whether there was a need to involve HLC with this boy's earlier surgery.It wasn't relevant to what was happening at this time.

 

The BBC discussion also had many other parents ringing in- non-Witnesses- to say that they had removed their children for treatment at different health centres when the officious doctors had mistreated/man-handled/ ignored them/ refused to treat their children.

 

Our National Health Service is a service that is restricted by financial cuts as to what treatment it can offer patients. If you want an expensive treatment not offered on the NHS then basically it is policy to persuade you to accept the cheaper/older options or you should have the right to leave the hospital and go for private treatment yourself. However, having made that decision, they will threaten you with the fact they may not accept you back into the NHS system again, your continuing treatment from the private procedure onward has to be entirely paid for by you and they may even decide to bill you for all the treatment for your present illness so far - even though really it is not free if you have for years paid your National Insurance through your wages like other taxation towards it. My father faced this dilemma when he had to go on a waiting list for some cancer treatment and offered to pay for it to get it done sooner. Some doctors can get quite officious if you question what they want to do - I know, they did this with my Mother on more than one occasion - nothing to do with the blood issue then either - just rude young Doctor's whose parents did not teach them respect and listening skills.

 

Mr and Mrs King's Lawyer himself has given statements to the TV that they should sue the hospital for giving out misinformation. How can the hospital claim it was acting in the interest of the child when they have Police issue a false arrest warrant, based on false information, to have them arrested and kept in cells for days and the child under Police guard unable, until 2 days ago (when the child's older brother was given permission to see him) to see any of his family and in a foreign hospital where he could understand no Spanish?Also, as the Father stated, they got the authorities to stop their ability to pay for further treatment. Who actually was committing cruelty and neglect? 

 

Having received a 100 000 signed petition to number 10 Downing Street, Deputy Prime Minister Nicholas Clegg and Health Minister Jeremy Hunt came on TV today and stated that the hospital and Police had been far too heavy handed and they were intervening with the help of the family's appointed Spanish Lawyer to have them freed to see their son who was hundreds of miles away in a Malaga hospital from the prison in Madrid where the parents were being kept. Tonight they have been freed and are on their way to their son. The Photon Beam therapy has been offered to them at cut-price by a hospital interviewed by the BBC in the Czec Republic and the government has organised them to see a top oncology specialist from UK to advise them of what he feels is the best way to proceed. The Czec hospital spokesperson reckons that the little boy could be treated by them.

 

As far as I am concerned this case has become a very good Witness generally and has received much support with the public.

Edited September 2, 2014 by retroHelen

[Toy Poodles]

Thank you Helen for that summary, I appreciated it very much.