Ripper baptized

[halfspanishlee]

I read that that the Yorkshire ripper peter got bapized any thoughts on this?

[Mykyl]

That was apparently years ago. I have no thoughts on it.

[bohemian]

Where did you read it, Lee?

I have heard it rumoured but not read anything definitive.

[Old]

I read the article where it was claimed that he was a Jehovah's Witness. That in it self would not mean he was baptized, as the press often get's things wrong. But he could be. 

 

I wouldn't be the first time a convicted murderer accepted the truth.

 

*** w81 5/15 p. 3 I Have Seen Lives Marvelously Changed ***

[Áine]

We already have a topic on this but I can't link to it on my phone

[halfspanishlee]

My mum said she read it in the news paper today

[Margaret]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944388/Yorkshire-Ripper-Sutcliffe-enjoys-specially-arranged-baptism-service.html

[Stavro]

The media often disregards the specifics of "membership" in the congregation. For example, it was widely reported by "reputable" media outlets that sister Whitney Heichel was murdered by a baptized Brother from her own congregation, and a handful of reports painted the murderer as an elder. But regardless of the apparent media consensus, the fact was that he was a non-baptized bible student who was "an irregular attendee".

 

In this case, every single article cites their source as The Daily Mail, which is not exactly known for accuracy in their reporting, and they cite their source as The Sun on Sunday, a newspaper with such dubious reporting practices that their reporters regularly face criminal charges.

[Qapla]

We have several in our Congregation (at least in the files they are in our Congregation) who are on Death Row - and, they send in their comments regularly for Q/A parts and one of the Brothers at the Hall will read them if the conductor calls on them.

 

They all came in to the Truth while on Death Row - and yes, they are Baptized Brothers.

[Margaret]

Jehovah reaches hearts, no matter where they are hidden

[Modeste]

The media often disregards the specifics of "membership" in the congregation. For example, it was widely reported by "reputable" media outlets that sister Whitney Heichel was murdered by a baptized Brother from her own congregation, and a handful of reports painted the murderer as an elder. But regardless of the apparent media consensus, the fact was that he was a non-baptized bible student who was "an irregular attendee".

 

In this case, every single article cites their source as The Daily Mail, which is not exactly known for accuracy in their reporting, and they cite their source as The Sun on Sunday, a newspaper with such dubious reporting practices that their reporters regularly face criminal charges.

It's just clicks and views with the Daily Mail. They're a paper whose editors have never particuarly liked the Witnesses. Either way as you rightly say no one interested in a credible news source takes them -and certainly not their online material which is even worse- seriously.

 

Ultimately this is a non-story from our point of view. Jehovah forgave Manasseh who killed in "great quantity", even "sawing" the prophet Isaiah in half. Even if there was any credibility to this story Jehovah extends his undeserved kindness to whom he chooses, which i'm quite sure the Daily Fail doesn't care about. 

[Greg Dent]

My cousin is in prison for murder. He hardly did anything for the truth before the incident. He is now an Unbaptized Publisher in the local Congregation. He is performing 3 or 4 studies in prison and helping those men make good progress.

 

I am very proud of him for the efforts he is making in this. His faith is strong and being fortified by our Father. 

[rocket]

Having a prison and mental institution in the city I lived in for so many years one hears of many experiences. The guards will tell you that when a person first goes to prison they suddenly get religion, so it is very difficult to tell if there is any true repentance or not. It takes a lot of time and some are very clever to fool even the wary. We have had some that did very well and progressed in the Truth after getting out and others that never come to another meeting even though they were baptized in prison. There are some psychological problems that simply can't be fixed in this system of things. A person may be for his or others own good better off in a prison or mental hospital prison for their or others protection for maybe the rest of their natural life. That doesn't mean that they aren't repentant of former crimes and can't qualify for baptism and witness to other prisoners. Sometimes one doesn't know what will trigger a psychotic episode that will endanger others. If I had committed the crimes of the Yorkshire ripper I would hope people would have the good sense to never let me out no matter what.

[4th Generation]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944388/Yorkshire-Ripper-Sutcliffe-enjoys-specially-arranged-baptism-service.html

[Adelin]

http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/19171-yorkshire-ripper/

[Áine]

Weer already have 2 threads on this

[Brother_Bliss]

So he was a serial killer in the late 70's, went to prison in 1981, and now got baptized 35-ish years later? 

 

Good for him!

[bohemian]

My wife and I both lived (before we were married) in the area where Sutcliffe operated and I can tell you - it was a scary time!  The tremendous sense of relief when he was finally caught (quite by accident really) was almost palpable.

I worked at a later time with an ex-detective who worked on the case.  He had left the force because of his experiences on that case - he couldn't handle it anymore.  Of course, he never went into any detail at all - he didn't want to even think about it.

 

I hope he is never released from prison.  He is mentally ill, and as such I don't believe he could ever be fully trusted in wider society, but I am pleased that in his rational moments he has come to know Jehovah.  I wish he would express public remorse over his actions and offer an apology, although I know that it would not accepted by the victims' families, or indeed by a lot of the public, but it would show me, at least, that the repentance could be genuine.

[Cool Cat]

It's just clicks and views with the Daily Mail. They're a paper whose editors have never particuarly liked the Witnesses. Either way as you rightly say no one interested in a credible news source takes them -and certainly not their online material which is even worse- seriously.

 

Ultimately this is a non-story from our point of view. Jehovah forgave Manasseh who killed in "great quantity", even "sawing" the prophet Isaiah in half. Even if there was any credibility to this story Jehovah extends his undeserved kindness to whom he chooses, which i'm quite sure the Daily Fail doesn't care about. 

 

I agree with you the Daily Mail has often been shown to be rubbish at reporting news accurately.

 

I think this is a great news story though for us. The Angels are joyful at this "good news" and so we should be:- Luke 15:10 In the same way, I tell you, joy arises among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

 

Peter Sutcliffe is now a brother. Good on him! He will never be released from prison in this system, but the demonstration of Jehovah's mercy is made a spectacle which can only be a good thing. This can give a lot of people who are looking to turn their lives around after a terrible life course a lot of comfort and renewed hope.

 

Also with regards to Isaiah being sawn in half :-

 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002205

Jewish tradition, which can also be unreliable, says that Isaiah was sawn asunder at King Manasseh’s order. (Whether Paul has reference to this at Hebrews 11:37, as some believe, has not been proved.)—Isa 1:1.

 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003849

According to tradition, wicked King Manasseh had Isaiah put to death in that extremely painful manner, though the Scriptures do not say so.

 

Some Jewish traditions have been shown to be about as reliable as the Daily Mail. Isaiah may or may not of been sawn in half. That will be a dodgy question to ask Mannaseh in the new system!

 

 

[ReadYourBible]

My wife and I both lived (before we were married) in the area where Sutcliffe operated and I can tell you - it was a scary time!  The tremendous sense of relief when he was finally caught (quite by accident really) was almost palpable.

I worked at a later time with an ex-detective who worked on the case.  He had left the force because of his experiences on that case - he couldn't handle it anymore.  Of course, he never went into any detail at all - he didn't want to even think about it.

 

I hope he is never released from prison.  He is mentally ill, and as such I don't believe he could ever be fully trusted in wider society, but I am pleased that in his rational moments he has come to know Jehovah.  I wish he would express public remorse over his actions and offer an apology, although I know that it would not accepted by the victims' families, or indeed by a lot of the public, but it would show me, at least, that the repentance could be genuine.

I was thinking this as well, but then I also started thinking about Paul.  The article says that Peter S. was on a divine mission to rid the streets of prostitutes. Schizophrenia is one of those diseases that lends itself nicely to crimes like that.  (We seen a man on probation with schizophrenia, he went on to rape a 90 year old woman)

 

Yet, when faced with truth about the divine (such as Paul himself was) he changed considerably.  The women he murdered will come back in the new system and their families will suffer too until then, but he will also suffer along with them, living with daily self condemnation and memories of the things he did to these women, as did Paul when he thought of his victims.  His actions from that period of time on, outdid ALL the other apostles put together.  

 

For someone who has come to know Jehovah's mercy, and his love, this would create one overwhelming sense of unworthiness, and a deep desire to atone (through works especially) for what monstrosities they had committed.  I haven't murdered anyone and I feel exactly the same way.  I am not worthy to kiss the feet of my master and Lord.  

 

I see no benefit to this man if he became a witness in sham.  It will not protect him in jail, in fact it will further make him a target of those who seek to render judgment, because there's no way that a man like him is worthy of salvation according to them.  They will feel as you do too, that he's not really repentant.  If he were do anything to benefit himself, he'd have stayed psychotic, and that would have made others fear him.  He would have used violence to maintain his status quo.

 

We see a similar interview at jw.org more recently of a brother who sold drugs, I don't think he explicitly comes out and says it, but if you read between the lines, you just know he killed people.  There is a sadness/regret that is written all over his face.  

[Dustparticle]

 

I read the article where it was claimed that he was a Jehovah's Witness. That in it self would not mean he was baptized, as the press often get's things wrong. But he could be. 

 

I wouldn't be the first time a convicted murderer accepted the truth.

 

*** w81 5/15 p. 3 I Have Seen Lives Marvelously Changed ***

 

That is true, although he was never convicted, Saul or Paul came into the truth. Jehovah forgives in a large way and he can read hearts too.

[I_Tell_Truth]

It encouragred my husband, he thought the brothers were scraping the bottom of the barrel when he got baptized...LOL.

[Old]

That is true, although he was never convicted, Saul or Paul came into the truth. Jehovah forgives in a large way and he can read hearts too.

Trying to make sense of your statement.

Are you referring  to Paul as never being convicted or the Yorkshire ripper never being convicted?

 

The Ripper Peter William Sutcliffe was convicted in May 1981. 30 year minimum, later change to 'whole life tariff' meaning no chance of parole.

[LRJW]

I noticed that Peter Sutcliffe has a beard.  

 

Tsk tsk tsk, brother.  No privileges for you.

 

 

*runs and hides*

[Stavro]

I know of someone who sent him a letter of congratulations. According to the response they received, he was baptized, but NOT as a Witness.

 

I have not personally seen the letter, so I cannot definitively say whether it was in his own hand or a response from a prison official. But apparently there is some concern about the high volume of mail over this misreported event.

 

When it comes to these easily fabricated media reports, Proverbs 14:15 comes to mind. "The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step."