Shooting in Paris

[Chijwas]

Interesting, 8 JW's

Of 2,184 Syrian refugees admitted into the U.S. since the Syrian civil war erupted in 2011, only 53 (2.4 percent) have been Christians while 2098 (or 96 percent) have been Muslims, according to State Department statistics updated on Monday.

The remaining 33 include 1 Yazidi, 8 Jehovah Witnesses, 2 Baha’i, 6 Zoroastrians, 6 of "other religion," 7 of "no religion," and 3 atheists.

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[Jodievt]

i didn't even know there were JW in Syria. That is interesting.

[Tbs77]

Two Air France planes diverted after threats

Edited November 18, 2015 by Tbs77

[AH173]

Wow.

[Allabord4Jah]

I just got a email from a sister in Paris/France.  She said the brothers are still checking various congregations, who may have been at any of those places where the bombings took place and the restaurants and theater where so many will shot.   So far she said she has heard of NO report on any of the brothers and or sister's hurt or killed.   She did send a picture of a memorial site (many many flowers and candles), someone had posted a picture with our Nov WT and another WT on that memorial.   She doesn't know if some worldly person did that or who.   She said we have to wait on the brothers in charge in the Paris area and get a report from the G.B.   So know one knows for sure and not to spread rumors or speculate.    .  

Edited November 18, 2015 by allabord4jah

[Tbs77]

Saint-Denis, France on live TV on CNN

[hatcheckgirl]

"Armed police are raiding a flat in the north Paris suburb of Saint Denis in an operation linked to Friday's attacks.

At least two suspects have reportedly been killed, including a woman who blew herself up with a suicide belt. Several explosions and gunfire were heard.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34853657

 

Deputy Mayor Stephane Peu urged local residents to stay indoors, saying "it is not a new attack but a police intervention"."

[Shawnster]

I just got a email from a sister in Paris/France.  She said the brothers are still checking various congregations, who may have been at any of those places where the bombings took place and the restaurants and theater where so many will shot.   So far she said she has heard of NO report on any of the brothers and or sister's hurt or killed.   She did send a picture of a memorial site (many many flowers and candles), someone had posted a picture with our Nov WT and another WT on that memorial.   She doesn't know if some worldly person did that or who.   She said we have to wait on the brothers in charge in the Paris area and get a report from the G.B.   So know one knows for sure and not to spread rumors or speculate.    .  

 

Why is everything in English?

[ChocoBro]

Why is everything in English?

 

"Condolens" is English?

[Poly Ester]

Because there are English speaking congregations there

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[Friends just call me Ross]

Diesel, a bomb/explosive sniffing Belgian Shepherd, was killed in the raid last night  

and several officers were lightly wounded. 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/30134920/french-police-dog-killed-by-jihadists/

 

Man's inhumanity to man...and man's inhumanity to Jehovah's animals.  

[AH173]

Thanks for the update. That's sad.

To be encouraged in the midst of this I'm reviewing the 2014 international convention. Putting me in better mood. ☺

Edited November 18, 2015 by AH173

[Audj]

"Condolens" is English?

Condolens is not french either. It sounds more like an English speaking person sounding out a french word

[AH173]

This article is shedding light on what the French President is aiming to do.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/europe/hollande-isis-plan/index.html?sr=twCNN111815hollande-isis-plan/inde0528PMVODtopLink&linkId=18852204

"Hollande wants to rally his nation -- to forge the kind of unity that nations rarely exhibit in times of peace. But there may be more legalistic reasons, as well.

The French President wants what amounts to war powers at home. And he is choosing not to invoke an article of one of the European Union treaties that requires member states to help in case of "a terrorist attack."

Instead, Holland wants to invoke Article 42.7 of another treaty -- the Treaty on European Union -- that applies to war. Article 42.7 requires EU countries to do all they can to help when one of their own is the "victim of armed aggression."

This would mark the first time the article has ever been invoked."

Edited November 18, 2015 by AH173

[Patinage]

French CONDOLEANCES (condoléances) meaning CONDOLENCES or SYMPATHY.

[ChocoBro]

I was joking. it was a big typo.

 

I think the sign is horrible. They could have put a little more effort into it instead of patching it together with parcel tape like that.

 

Oh well I guess the thought counts a little too.

[Trina]

Maybe a young one wrote the sign...in which case it is very sweet.

[Tbs77]

This article is shedding light on what the French President is aiming to do.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/europe/hollande-isis-plan/index.html?sr=twCNN111815hollande-isis-plan/inde0528PMVODtopLink&linkId=18852204

"Hollande wants to rally his nation -- to forge the kind of unity that nations rarely exhibit in times of peace. But there may be more legalistic reasons, as well.

The French President wants what amounts to war powers at home. And he is choosing not to invoke an article of one of the European Union treaties that requires member states to help in case of "a terrorist attack."

Instead, Holland wants to invoke Article 42.7 of another treaty -- the Treaty on European Union -- that applies to war. Article 42.7 requires EU countries to do all they can to help when one of their own is the "victim of armed aggression."

This would mark the first time the article has ever been invoked."

Yep, this is uncharted waters for EU!

Edit

http://jwtalk.net/forums/index.php?/topic/24003-Paris-attacks#entry349899

Edited November 18, 2015 by Tbs77

[AH173]

Speculation is that they killed the one who they called the ringleader. They're DNA checking it now.

[Dustparticle]

Diesel, a bomb/explosive sniffing Belgian Shepherd, was killed in the raid last night  

and several officers were lightly wounded. 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/30134920/french-police-dog-killed-by-jihadists/

 

Man's inhumanity to man...and man's inhumanity to Jehovah's animals.  

 

 I don't know about France. In USA they are view as officers. While ago, in my area, a police dog was gun down. What is sad to say, that I informed the police chief what I saw In my area the same knight, and I think he was surprised what I told him. Oh well.

[rbrown1205]

Yesterday,  Wembley Stadium in North London, which was hosting a football game between England and France, provided another opportunity for England to show support for France during their time of tragedy.   At the opening after they sang the British National Anthem, they played the French Anthem with the words on a large screen.

 

Well, World War I started with the death of one statesman.  World War II started when Hitler invaded Poland.  Is there possibility of a World War III here, with 129 dead, and 350 wounded?  Or will it be something more, or less, than that? 

 

I hate war.  I have an uncle that I never met because of it.

 

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/football/wembley-stadium-honours-paris-victims-with-french-anthem_1823216.html

[Friends just call me Ross]

Parisians are placing flowers in the bullet holes...  

 

[Shawnster]

Yesterday,  Wembley Stadium in North London, which was hosting a football game between England and France, provided another opportunity for England to show support for France during their time of tragedy.   At the opening after they sang the British National Anthem, they played the French Anthem with the words on a large screen.

 

Well, World War I started with the death of one statesman.  World War II started when Hitler invaded Poland.  Is there possibility of a World War III here, with 129 dead, and 350 wounded?  Or will it be something more, or less, than that? 

 

I hate war.  I have an uncle that I never met because of it.

 

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/football/wembley-stadium-honours-paris-victims-with-french-anthem_1823216.html

 

Who would be on ISIS side?  If this did develop into a real war, then it would be pretty much one sided, wouldn't it?

[rbrown1205]

Who would be on ISIS side?  If this did develop into a real war, then it would be pretty much one sided, wouldn't it?

I have no idea, but people have been dealing with people like ISIS for going on 20 years now, since before 9/11.  When people start to get up and sing about it, seems dangerous - whipping up emotions, and all. I wonder how the brothers in London and Paris are faring.

[Shawnster]

A brother on another board pointed out the difficult position the nations of the world are in right now in combating ISIS.  He based his comments on history and international law.

 

The terrorists believe God, or Allah, is on their side.  They are engaged in a holy war.  Their attack on Paris was to show how bold they are.  Nobody is safe and no country, no city is out of reach.  The terrorists firmly believed they are going to be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven when they die while committing these atrocities.  

 

For any country to actually declare war on ISIS, they have legitimize their existence.  Declaring war on ISIS is admitting that ISIS is a political entity with definable national borders.  By definition war is conflict between two nations.  By stating that ISIS is a legitimate nation-state, ISIS would gain certain rights under international law.  This will move ISIS outside of the realm of a terrorist organization.  By keeping them defined as a terrorist organization, this denies their legitimacy and makes it easier to fight them from a moral or legal standpoint.

 

The problem that the nations face is that, in combating a terrorist organization, more care is needed to avoid civilian casualties.  Collateral damage needs to be kept to a minimum.  However, if an actual state of war exists between nations, then less care is needed in avoiding civilian casualties.  It's understood that in times of war civilians die and a  larger number of such casualties is acceptable in the eyes of the nations.

 

In the past nations have chosen the route of calling such military actions "police actions" instead of war.  The Korean conflict and the Vietnam conflict are examples of police actions.  The USSR and China did not want to admit or recognize South Korea as a legitimate political entity.  The UN forces did not want to recognize North Korea as a legitimate political entity.  By declaring the conflict a police action, both sides were able to provide troops and support in what was essentially a Korean civil war.  The same mindset was behind the military tactics in the Vietnam conflict.  Likewise, this same principle guided France and Britain during the American Civil War.  France and Britain wanted to support the South, but they fell short of recognizing the Confederacy as a real country.  This lack of recognition and subsequent lack of military support helped the North quell the uprising.

 

Meanwhile the terrorists want the rest of the world to recognize ISIS as a legitimate state and declare an actual war upon them.  Their goal is to eradicate the enemy and show the world that Allah does support them and bring about total war.  

 

So the nations are left with two choices.  Recognize ISIS as a legitimate nation with definable boundaries and declare total war on said nation, or continue to recognize ISIS as nothing more than an internal insurrection or uprising in various countries such as Syria and Iraq.  By keeping ISIS on a terrorist list and not as a nation allows the rest of the world to engage in a police action in those various countries.  They aren't fighting against Iraq or Syria but are fighting to restore the legitimate government of those countries from falling into the hands of rebel insurgents.  

 

All of this matters because the Western nations like to present themselves as morally upright and law abiding civilization.  There are rules to follow even in times of war.  Each method, official war or police action, has certain legal requirements under international law. Those who claim to be good guys and supporters of that legal system will seek to do what they think is best for them to keep their status as good guys.

 

Not that any of this will matter to the dead or the dying.