Angola Convention Incident

[jayrtom]

50 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

I agree actually which is what i liked or hmm liked isn't the word but this link ive posted isn't running with the same photos that have already been posted and they have new details in the article - which to me does not scream copycat.

Mandi, there are no new details in the news report from hours ago that you linked. They simply didn't copy the original article (from "portal de angola") but make reference to it as the source. The details are exactly the same and amongst the 7.000 there it is only one witnessed (always the same Abraham Kituxi) that is cited - the one that called the venue as the "temple"

 

[Stormswift]

They described how the gas was carried ... although not identifying the gas, Ive not seen that detail in the other articles.

And yeah I didnt like the temple quote either but he may not be a witness. 

 

I watch the 3D model of Dutchsinse who 'forecasts' rightly or wrongly earthquakes if you have a look at his model, the whole continent of Africa is quiet as is China - and that's not because there are no earthquakes, its because news simply does not get out of Africa ... so a lack of news items does not surprise me, and that in itself doesn't convince me it's fake. 

 

I just think its not Fake news - yet.

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Stormswift

[jayrtom]

1 hour ago, Dages said:

 

he is speaking about an interruption.

There is nothing special about this vídeo. In fact he talks abut the convention being interrupted because of a gas but, to me, the images don't connect with the words he is speaking. It appears to me as if the brothers are going naturally home after the end of the convention.I don't see any spetial image shoing such a situation with 400 people affected

[jayrtom]

17 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

They described how the gas was carried ... although not identifying the gas, Ive not seen that detail in the other articles.

And yeah I didnt like the temple quote either but he may not be a witness. 

 

I watch the 3D model of Dutchsinse who 'forecasts' rightly or wrongly earthquakes if you have a look at his model, the whole continent of Africa is quiet as is China - and that's not because there are no earthquakes, its because news simply does not get out of Africa ... so a lack of news items does not surprise me, and that in itself doesn't convince me it's fake. 

 

I just think its not Fake news - yet.

 

if you're referring to this part it was mentioned on the original article:

The toxic substance, which caused the commotion could not yet be identified but it was reportedly housed in containers of 750 thousand liters spread throughout the venue.

 

original:

The toxic substance that caused the fainting, whose chemical composition has not yet been determined, was in containers of 750 thousand liters of different colors, spread in strategic places, already in the possession of the experts of the Provincial Service of Criminal Investigation of Luanda and the Central Laboratory of Criminalistics.

 

on the other hand, Bill Underwood comments are also second handed...

I asked him if it himself who contacted the brother from Angola Bethel and he answered this:

 

"I asked a friend who knows pubs in a lot of languages. She passed the request on to Nuno, who lives in Angola. He replied with the statement from the branch. That's all I have. I'm sure more will come.
Today a dozen other news outlets are blaring the story of 'hundreds of JWs gassed' but they are all parroting the original report - none of them that I read actually had any first-hand knowledge of the incident. In my experience, African news sources are extremely unreliable and have a bent toward sensationalism. So in this case we won't know the full story until it's on Newsroom."

[Stavro]

1 hour ago, Stormswift said:

I agree actually which is what i liked or hmm liked isn't the word but this link ive posted isn't running with the same photos that have already been posted and they have new details in the article - which to me does not scream copycat.

 

The "new details" are that there was 750,000 liters of chemicals carried in. By seven people.

 

For reference, A large tanker truck can carry 50,000 liters, so this would be fifteen tanker trucks full of chemicals. Carried by seven people.

 

This is not new details of the attack, this is an editor lying through his teeth to put his own spin on an already exaggerated story.

 

[Stormswift]

5 minutes ago, Stavro said:

 

The "new details" are that there was 750,000 liters of chemicals carried in. By seven people.

 

For reference, A large tanker truck can carry 50,000 liters, so this would be fifteen tanker trucks full of chemicals. Carried by seven people.

 

This is not new details of the attack, this is an editor lying through his teeth to put his own spin on an already exaggerated story.

 

Okay now that makes sense ... but an exaggerated story does not make for Fake News. I am almost certain that something has happened ... but as often is with newspapers and other media it's perhaps been sensationalised ... and that proves it. Its not Fake News though of that I have a strong gut feeling over.

 

I believe the fainting of many occurred (I'm not going to put a number on it like media has) and since heat is not a factor there has to be a reason. But I don't think it has caused lasting damage to anyone  I hope im right there.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Stormswift

[Bluebell]

Just heard from a relative who is at the moment in Paris with a member of the branch committee in Angola

who I also personally know for years, that something did happen at the convention,

but not as dramatic as portrayed on the verious news broadcasters.

 

I will get a report later ......

They are at the moment in a restaurant.....

[Old]

[carlos]

1 hour ago, Stormswift said:

Yes my brother August is your Summer, but for Angola it's not their hot season they are in the southern hemisphere, they are experiencing cooler temperatures ranging between 21-26 degrees C at the mo. That's hot for NZ (mid range summer temps for us) but not for Angola. 

 

True, I hadn't thought of that.

[Stavro]

27 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

Okay now that makes sense ... but an exaggerated story does not make for Fake News.

 

But it does mean that the outlet favors sensationalism over truth, and their reports should be taken as such.

 

For those who would like to hear the official statement rather than fourth-hand accounts that are being shared, the media contact phone number for the US branch is 1-718-560-5000, and the Angola branch number is 244-222-460-192

[Dages]

53 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

There is nothing special about this vídeo. In fact he talks abut the convention being interrupted because of a gas but, to me, the images don't connect with the words he is speaking. It appears to me as if the brothers are going naturally home after the end of the convention.I don't see any spetial image shoing such a situation with 400 people affected

 

The kids have their hands over their nose, though.

[Stormswift]

35 minutes ago, Stavro said:

 

But it does mean that the outlet favors sensationalism over truth, and their reports should be taken as such.

 

For those who would like to hear the official statement rather than fourth-hand accounts that are being shared, the media contact phone number for the US branch is 1-718-560-5000, and the Angola branch number is 244-222-460-192

Exactly why I'm happy to wait until jw.org says something before I deem it 100% fake or true.

[Musky]

Exactly why I'm happy to wait until jw.org says something before I deem it 100% fake or true.

That's certainly your prerogative. Is someone trying to convince you otherwise?

[Stormswift]

2 minutes ago, Musky said:

That's certainly your prerogative. Is someone trying to convince you otherwise?

Nope did i say they were musky? Just giving my opinion that's all - like everyone else.

 

I think i'm more concerned about if this did happen ... actually no im not - Jehovah's got it if it did.  I think what is annoying me ... is some of the issues mentioned re: Facebook.

 

There are so many posts about it - and brothers and sisters took it as absolutely true, and now there's a report by a person we do have respect for, but still not official they are now reporting it is fake which is adding to the confusion - hence my comment about waiting on jw.org. And also ...with Brother Stavro introducing phone numbers - I didn't think he had seen a previous post of mine saying that I'm happy to wait on jw.org that is all.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Stormswift

[Qapla]

Like was mentioned in another post:

 

Anyone is allowed to call the Branch. They do not get upset if we do. They are happy to talk to us and give us any answers to questions we ask, if they are able. They will never tell us, "Wait till it appears on jw.org"

 

So, since Savro posted the phone numbers, there would be nothing wrong with someone calling one of the Branches and asking about this report - and then posting the answer.

[Stormswift]

13 minutes ago, Qapla said:

Like was mentioned in another post:

 

Anyone is allowed to call the Branch. They do not get upset if we do. They are happy to talk to us and give us any answers to questions we ask, if they are able. They will never tell us, "Wait till it appears on jw.org"

 

So, since Savro posted the phone numbers, there would be nothing wrong with someone calling one of the Branches and asking about this report - and then posting the answer.

Interesting John ... I'd have thought they'd say nothng until it appeared on jw.org anyway. But of course if it was true then it's already in the media isn't it?

[Old]

19 minutes ago, Qapla said:

Like was mentioned in another post:

 

Anyone is allowed to call the Branch. They do not get upset if we do. They are happy to talk to us and give us any answers to questions we ask, if they are able. They will never tell us, "Wait till it appears on jw.org"

 

So, since Savro posted the phone numbers, there would be nothing wrong with someone calling one of the Branches and asking about this report - and then posting the answer.

Good idea! You go first.

[Stormswift]

If I wasn't at work - I'm thinking seriously about doing it ... but then I don't want add to their workload either. I'll wait another 12 hours to see if it appears on jw.org - It's Monday there now - so maybe soon.

[palmhat]

Well, since I started this I guess It only seems right that I do it. I will let you know as soon as I know. I am doing it now

[palmhat]

Okay, I called the branch & was told that I may please call back before 5 PM EST. That means I should call after 5 AM or before 2 PM Pacific time. I get a 20 minute break at 11 AM but will try to call before I leave for work at 6 AM and will post as soon as I get an answer.

[Tortuga]

3 hours ago, Stavro said:

The "new details" are that there was 750,000 liters of chemicals carried in. By seven people.

Several news reports said that 750 thousand liter containers were used. I assume that's a poor translation of 750 milliliters or an average wine bottle.

[Stormswift]

9 minutes ago, palmhat said:

Okay, I called the branch & was told that I may please call back before 5 PM EST. That means I should call after 5 AM or before 2 PM Pacific time. I get a 20 minute break at 11 AM but will try to call before I leave for work at 6 AM and will post as soon as I get an answer.

 

 

That is so appreciated. Thank you. 

[Iksplorer]

It's coming across my Facebook page that "there were many sisters that fainted but no one was seen using any type of gas. It has been put down to mass hysteria due to the unwelcome guests causing problems and hurling threats and insults. There was no attack".

[Iksplorer]

Should have read page 2 first.  This was already on here.  Too late for me to delete my post.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Iksplorer

[jayrtom]

5 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Several news reports said that 750 thousand liter containers were used. I assume that's a poor translation of 750 milliliters or an average wine bottle.

No, it's correctly translated from the portuguese news that mentioned 750.000 liters