Un-United Nations

[Awakened]

22 minutes ago, Gregexplore said:

please listen to a new video talk by

David Schafer- Survive the Great Day (

Ok,  will do. Thanks 

[New World Explorer]

2 minutes ago, Awakened said:

Ok,  will do. Thanks 

Just prepare yourself to be "shaken" LOL

Enjoy!

 

[Awakened]

16 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Anyone that can read the Bible is aware of the prophecy.

 

Just because someone can read or has read the Bible of course doesn’t mean they will be able to make sense of the deep spiritual things (prophecies included). Amos 3:7 helps us to understand that God himself reveals the meaning of some of the deep things in the scriptures to select ones. So Gods spirit is needed to properly understand certain scriptures. Anyone in deep spiritual darkness does not have this. I watched the video of David Schafer’s talk. It’s interesting that he said that “one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans can actually achieve P&S through their own systems and governments.”

 

So if Satan has read and correctly understands the scripture in 1 Thes 5:3, why would he use his system to expedite his own demise?

 

[njwinans]

1 hour ago, Awakened said:

So if Satan has read and correctly understands the scripture in 1 Thes 5:3, why would he use his system to expedite his own demise?

 

Satan is so prideful that he thinks he can make this system work despite what Jehovah says will happen.

[Stavro]

4 hours ago, Awakened said:

Just because someone can read or has read the Bible of course doesn’t mean they will be able to make sense of the deep spiritual things (prophecies included).

 

(Matthew 8:29) And look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” 
 

The demons in this account knew that the abyssing could not yet occur, so at the very least they had a partial understanding of Daniel's prophecy, and that the appointed times had not yet ended.

 

Satan almost certainly understands the meaning of 1 Thess 5:3, but due to being in spiritual darkness he thinks he can outsmart Jehovah. From his point of view, if the declaration works and peace is achieved, then he has proven that mankind's rule can work and he has won the debate. But if the declaration doesn't achieve lasting peace, then at least Satan plans for the miraculous display to lead many Witnesses out of the truth, so Satan "wins" even in that scenario, by means of mutually assured destruction.

[Shawnster]

5 hours ago, Awakened said:

 

Just because someone can read or has read the Bible of course doesn’t mean they will be able to make sense of the deep spiritual things (prophecies included). Amos 3:7 helps us to understand that God himself reveals the meaning of some of the deep things in the scriptures to select ones. So Gods spirit is needed to properly understand certain scriptures. Anyone in deep spiritual darkness does not have this. I watched the video of David Schafer’s talk. It’s interesting that he said that “one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans can actually achieve P&S through their own systems and governments.”

 

So if Satan has read and correctly understands the scripture in 1 Thes 5:3, why would he use his system to expedite his own demise?

 

 

 

This comment from the Morning Worship video David Schafer- Survive the Great Day (Rev. 16:16)  sheds light on this.  

Quote

 

And yet, they are inspired —“inspired by demons.” And yet, they have their ultimate source in “the mouth of the dragon,” Satan the Devil —“the father of the lie.” But, now, who actually gives voice to these expressions?

 

Well, notice in verse 13 that the expressions also ‘come out of the mouths of the wild beast and the false prophet’—political entities of Satan’s world. So here we have unclean expressions inspired by demons —originating with Satan but voiced, repeated, parroted, and echoed by people who constitute Satan’s wicked world.

 

But, now, just what are these expressions that are so persuasive that they compel kings? What concept would be so compelling? Since 1914, Satan has been stepping up his efforts to mislead “the entire inhabited earth.” And one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans—that Satan’s way of ruling is the best—that humans can actually achieve peace and security through their own systems and governments. Moreover, according to 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, they will soon be saying that they have actually achieved “peace and security.”

 

 

 

We are discussing this video here: https://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/34928-new-video-david-schafer-survive-the-great-day-rev-1616/

 

Did you notice the point brother Schafer made?  The declaration Peace and Security is not from Jehovah; it is from Satan.  This false statement is actually an expression inspired of demons.  Satan and his demons cannot work against this because it is their goal.  They want to make this statement. They want the world to believe this statement. They are actually the ones responsible for causing this statement.

 

Satan's goal is the cry of Peace and Security.  What Satan doesn't understand, because he is in darkness mentally and alienated from Jehovah, is that this will lead to his demise. He doesn't believe it.  

 

[Awakened]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

The declaration Peace and Security is not from Jehovah; it is from Satan. 

Of course.

 

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

What Satan doesn't understand, because he is in darkness mentally and alienated from Jehovah, is that this will lead to his demise.

Exactly, that’s my point.

[Awakened]

5 hours ago, njwinans said:

Satan is so prideful that he thinks he can make this system work despite what Jehovah says will happen.

 

I agree. I’m just pointing out that due to being in deep spiritual darkness (Tartarus), it’s possible if not likely, that that he’s not aware of the prophecy that’s Jehovah’s Day is to begin immediately after.

[ChrisC]

On 26/02/2018 at 10:48 PM, Shawnster said:

Seriously, let's drop the off topic debate about trusting the media.  

 

 

Okay. 

 

Please consider that some of us forget what the topic is after reading a few comments. 

I scroll up to remind myself, but it soon goes. 

[njwinans]

1 hour ago, Awakened said:

 

I agree. I’m just pointing out that due to being in deep spiritual darkness (Tartarus), it’s possible if not likely, that that he’s not aware of the prophecy that’s Jehovah’s Day is to begin immediately after.

 

I thought about what you said and wondered if Satan is in Tartarus and if so when?  Because it is talked about the angels of Noah's day being put into Tartarus but not Satan himself.  But reading the Insight volume 2 on Tartarus did it become clear.  Satan and his demons are in Tartarus now but I don't think they were all in it before.  Correct me if I'm wrong, plz.

 

Quote

The condition of utter debasement represented by Tartarus is a precursor of the abyssing that Satan and his demons are to experience prior to the start of the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. This, in turn, is to be followed after the end of the thousand years by their utter destruction in “the second death.”

 

 

Thx

Nathan

[njwinans]

9 hours ago, Awakened said:

So if Satan has read and correctly understands the scripture in 1 Thes 5:3, why would he use his system to expedite his own demise?

 

Found this interesting too... Isa 14:14 Satan is likened to the King of Babylon in that, "I will make myself resemble the Most High."  And as most high he will rule the earth, or so he brazenly believes.  I want front row seat to see that conversation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thx 

Nathan

[New World Explorer]

3 hours ago, Awakened said:

I agree. I’m just pointing out that due to being in deep spiritual darkness (Tartarus), it’s possible if not likely, that that he’s not aware of the prophecy that’s Jehovah’s Day is to begin immediately after.

Perhaps Jehovah in relation to Satan,  "has blinded" the part of the Bible which describes events after PS? anything is possible with Jehovah.

[Stavro]

20 minutes ago, Gregexplore said:

Perhaps Jehovah in relation to Satan,  "has blinded" the part of the Bible which describes events after PS? anything is possible with Jehovah.

 

Jehovah is not so weak that he needs to keep his prophecies secret. The basic prophecy of 1 Thess 5:3 has been well understood by members of false religion for centuries, yet Satan will follow through anyway because he is convinced that he can prove the prophecy to be false.

[New World Explorer]

1 minute ago, Stavro said:

 

Jehovah is not so weak that he needs to keep his prophecies secret. The basic prophecy of 1 Thess 5:3 has been well understood by members of false religion for centuries, yet Satan will follow through anyway because he is convinced that he can prove the prophecy to be false.

I was more on the line "cut off from spiritual information" not privileged to it.

That is not necessary a weakness

Jehovah has right to withhold any information especially fro satan.

 

Having said that  I agree that satan is so arrogant that no matter what, he will go through it

 

[Stavro]

14 minutes ago, Gregexplore said:

I was more on the line "cut off from spiritual information" not privileged to it.

 

He is cut off from the fullest understanding of all Scriptural matters, just as humans are when they try to read the Bible without the help of holy spirit. But there's no reason at all to believe that he is blocked from simply reading the plain text of the Bible, or that he is not allowed to read the centuries-old commentaries on 1 Thess 5:3 that accurately interpret the prophecy.

[New World Explorer]

33 minutes ago, Stavro said:

 

He is cut off from the fullest understanding of all Scriptural matters, just as humans are when they try to read the Bible without the help of holy spirit. But there's no reason at all to believe that he is blocked from simply reading the plain text of the Bible, or that he is not allowed to read the centuries-old commentaries on 1 Thess 5:3 that accurately interpret the prophecy.

THE Devil is the epitome of arrogance.

 

His pride is reflected in words recorded by God’s prophet Isaiah. Over a century before Babylonia became the chief world power, Jehovah’s people were represented as making this declaration against “the king of Babylon”: “You have said in your heart, ‘To the heavens I shall go up. Above the stars of God [kings of David’s royal line] I shall lift up my throne . . . I shall make myself resemble the Most High.’” (Isaiah 14:3, 4, 12-15; Numbers 24:17) The pride of “the king of Babylon” was similar to the spirit of Satan, “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) But Satan’s arrogance will end in disaster, even as the Babylonian dynasty came to an inglorious end. W06 1/15

 

[njwinans]

2 hours ago, Gregexplore said:

THE Devil is the epitome of arrogance.

 

His pride is reflected in words recorded by God’s prophet Isaiah. Over a century before Babylonia became the chief world power, Jehovah’s people were represented as making this declaration against “the king of Babylon”: “You have said in your heart, ‘To the heavens I shall go up. Above the stars of God [kings of David’s royal line] I shall lift up my throne . . . I shall make myself resemble the Most High.’” (Isaiah 14:3, 4, 12-15; Numbers 24:17) The pride of “the king of Babylon” was similar to the spirit of Satan, “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) But Satan’s arrogance will end in disaster, even as the Babylonian dynasty came to an inglorious end. W06 1/15

 

 

I found this too...

 

*** it-2 p. 868 Satan ***
Satan filled the king of Babylon with the ambition to have complete domination over the earth, even over “Jehovah’s throne” (1Ch 29:23) and “the stars of God,” the kings of the line of David sitting on the throne at Mount Moriah (by extension, Zion). This “king,” that is, the dynasty of Babylon, ‘lifted himself up’ in his own heart and was in his own eyes and in the eyes of his admirers a “shining one,” a “son of the dawn.” (In some translations the Latin Vulgate term “Lucifer” is retained. It is, however, merely the translation of the Hebrew word heh·lelʹ, “shining one.” Heh·lelʹ is not a name or a title but, rather, a term describing the boastful position taken by Babylon’s dynasty of kings of the line of Nebuchadnezzar.) (Isa 14:4-21) Since Babylon was a tool of Satan, its “king” reflected Satan’s own ambitious desire. Again, Jehovah came to the salvation of his people by restoring them to their land, until the real Seed of promise should come.—Ezr 1:1-6.

[ChocoBro]

On 26.2.2018 at 12:05 AM, Brandon said:

So the answer to your question is "No," however, I still believe Russia Today is a propaganda machine run by Putin.

It certainly is a "propaganda machine", but it most certainly is not "run by Putin"

 

I like to call RT the "relative truth" channel, because it's a great channel to get a different picture or viewpoint, but you need to be careful not to believe them, either.

 

Here's a great piece that shows how garbage their reporting is... afraid I couldn't find it in a better quality, but you get the picture.

 

 

 

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

it most certainly is not "run by Putin"

I didn't mean that he runs the day-to-day affairs of the media outlet personally, but it was launched in 2005 by Putin's government and is entirely pro-Putin;   it has been described by countless reputable journalists as "Putin's propaganda network" and during the 2008 global recession, the government added Russia Today to the list of "core organizations of strategic importance of Russia" in order to prop up the organization financially, ensuring it would continue to spread information that Putin's government values enough to pay to have it produced.

 

To give you an idea of how much Putin values Russia Today, in 2012 his government granted 11 billion rubles to it (according to today's conversion rates, approximately $177,000,000 USD)

Edited April 14, 2018 by Brandon

[EccentricM]

On 27/02/2018 at 1:27 AM, Musky said:

 

Not ALL of the "wicked spirit forces" (demons) are in Tartarus, I don't think so anyway.

 

On 27/02/2018 at 1:32 AM, Gregexplore said:

Tartarus is a condition rather than a particular location

The dense darkness similarly is not literally a lack of light but results from their being cut off from illumination by God as renegades and outcasts from his family, with only a dark outlook as to their eternal destiny.

 

 

ALL demons are in this condition,

 

 

On 27/02/2018 at 1:45 AM, Shawnster said:

 

 

Isn't that where all the demons come from? 

 

If all demons (Satan included) were not in the state of Tartarus, then we'd still see physical manifestations/materialisations of demons today I'd say. And we'd see more of their offspring considering how much they love to engage in fornication and unnatural desire.

 

If Jehovah is prevetning this in all demons today, then they are all, by definition, in Tartarus.

Edited April 17, 2018 by EccentricM

[Shawnster]

*** wp17 No. 5 p. 6 Are There Evil Angels? ***
COVER SUBJECT | ANGELS—ARE THEY REAL? WHY IT MATTERS
Are There Evil Angels?
Yes, there are evil angels. Where did they come from? Recall that God created angels with the gift of free will. Shortly after the first man and woman, Adam and Eve, were created, a perfect spirit creature abused his freedom of choice and instigated rebellion on earth. He succeeded in getting Adam and Eve to rebel against God. (Genesis 3:1-7; Revelation 12:9) The Bible does not specify what this spirit creature’s name was or what rank he held in heaven before he rebelled. But after his rebellion, the Bible appropriately calls him Satan, which means “Resister,” and the Devil, which means “Slanderer.”—Matthew 4:8-11.
Sadly, the ungodly rebellion did not end there. In Noah’s day an unspecified number of angels “forsook their own proper dwelling place” in God’s heavenly family. They came down to the earth and took on fleshly bodies to pursue a depraved and immoral course, deviating from the purpose of their existence.—Jude 6; Genesis 6:1-4; 1 Peter 3:19, 20.

What became of those evil angels? When God brought a global deluge to sweep the earth clean, they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm. However, God did not permit the disgraced angels to return to “their original position.” Instead, he confined them to a debased condition of “dense [spiritual] darkness,” known as Tartarus. (Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4) These demons have placed themselves under the control of Satan the Devil, “the ruler of the demons,” who “keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.”—Matthew 12:24; 2 Corinthians 11:14.

The Bible teaches that God’s Messianic Kingdom, a heavenly government, was established in 1914. Following that momentous event, Satan and his demons were ousted from heaven and confined to the vicinity of the earth. The rampant wickedness and gross immorality that plague our planet are evidence of their vengeful and destructive influence.—Revelation 12:9-12.

However, the increase in depravity and shocking violence confirm that the end of their reign of terror is near. Soon, these tyrannical spirit creatures will be taken out of action. After God’s Kingdom has ruled over a paradise earth for 1,000 years, those wicked spirits will have one brief, final opportunity to test humankind. Then they will be destroyed forever.—Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:1-3, 7-10.

[Footnote]
For more information regarding God’s Kingdom, see chapter 8 of the book What Does the Bible Really Teach? published by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Also available at www.jw.org.

 

*** w90 4/15 p. 14 par. 18 Deliverance Near for People of Godly Devotion! ***
18 In these days that are so much like the time of Noah, we also witness interference by wicked spirits. (Revelation 12:7-9) These demons are the same angels that materialized as humans and married women in the days of Noah. When the Deluge came, their wives and children were destroyed, but those disobedient angels were forced back into the spirit realm. They no longer had a place in Jehovah’s holy organization but were consigned to Tartarus, a condition of dense darkness, cut off from divine illumination. (2 Peter 2:4, 5) Operating under Satan’s direction, they have continued to maintain close contact with humans and, although unable any longer to materialize, have endeavored to control men, women, and even children. Some of this is done through occult practices. They also stir up mankind to destroy one another in ways that defy human reason. But that is not all.

 

*** w56 6/1 p. 332 Wielding the Spiritual Sword Against Wicked Spirit Forces ***
The Bible alone has a satisfactory explanation, it showing that there is a case of mistaken identity. In brief, it tells that God created invisible creatures long before he made the earth and man and that one of these rebelled at the time Adam and Eve were in Eden, making himself into Satan the Devil. In Noah’s day other spirit creatures joined Satan in his rebellion, thus making themselves demons. Since the Deluge all these have been confined in a state of darkness known as Tartarus. These, by impersonating the dead, would give the lie to the Bible’s plain statement that “the dead know not anything.”—Ezek. 28:14, 15; 2 Pet. 2:4, 5; Eccl. 9:5, AS.

 

All the disobedient angels, or demons, from Noah's day are in Tartarus.  
 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Shawnster

[ChocoBro]

 
All the disobedient angels, or demons, from Noah's day are in Tartarus.  
 

Does this mean Satan has gained no new followers since the age of Noah?


Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

 

 

Does this mean Satan has gained no new followers since the age of Noah?


Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk
 

 

How would we know? The scriptures don't say.  That does not nullify my statement. 

[Tortuga]

Speaking of the U.N., this site is always fun to peruse. 

 

https://news.un.org/en/news/topic/peace-and-security

[ChocoBro]

On the subject of the United Nations, a new scandal is emerging in German-speaking countries concerning an event that happened in 2012 in the Golan Heights, where a group of Austrian soldiers - part of a United Nations peacekeeping effort - observed terrorists establishing an ambush with machine guns in preparation for Syrian police and soldiers, and not much later waved through a Syrian patrol of nine men without warning them about the ambush.

 

Quote

Austria's defense minister is ordering an investigation into whether the country's peacekeepers allowed Syrian police to drive into a fatal ambush in the Golan Heights six years ago.

Austrian weekly Der Falter published a leaked video Friday that was apparently filmed by the United Nations peacekeepers from Austria in September 2012 and shows Syrian smugglers ambush the police.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/04/27/world/europe/ap-eu-austria-un-peacekeepers.html

 

 

On the video, it can be heard how Austrian soldiers discuss whether it isn't their responsibility to warn the Syrian forces of the set trap. One soldier notes that if they let them pass one of them were to survive, he would come back to shoot them out of revenge. The Austrian UN-troops don't seem comfortable, and yet somewhat passive, as they observe the Syrian patrol get gunned down.

 

In the meantime, Austria hastily pulled out of Golan in 2013

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE9530VE20130606

 

Now, what's really interesting is that in the meantime, the Austrian soldiers are being accused of being accessories to murder, while one of the former soldiers claims they were "just following orders", meaning they had orders from the top not to get involved in any way or means, even by warning the Syrian patrol. Interestingly, these orders will not have come from the Austrian ministry of defense, but more likely from a United Nations command post.

 

So, once again, the UN has given even more people the impression that it is utterly pointless and useless.

 

Again, I can't figure this one out. A wild beast, a beast soon to ravage the harlot, but how, without any teeth? What am I missing here?