Space, Our Eternal Frontier?

[EccentricM]

20 minutes ago, tuntun said:

one of our brother said he want to go back to garden of eden so he could cut off the head of serpent  so mankind would never falled into sin.

so we wouldn't need to get through all these. history with all these suffering, war, famine, etc are just a imagination of people who ever live on earth.

And if they did that, they'd also kill themselves and all of us, because we most likely wouldn't have been born. Also, they might incur Jehovah's anger, as it would not be in their authority to do such. If cutting off the head of the Serpent would have been the right thing to do, Jehovah would have done it. To say otherwise is haughtiness on people's part in saying they'd silence Satan in Eden, they are saying they know better than Jehovah.

 

" Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men" - 1 Corthinthians 1:25

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by EccentricM

[Tortuga]

9 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

Until we terraform them under Jehovah’s direction. 

I wonder if Venus is still going through the creation process...

[JudyO]

8 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

And if they did that, they'd also kill themselves and all of us, because we most likely wouldn't have been born. Also, they might incur Jehovah's anger, as it would not be in their authority to do such. If cutting off the head of the Serpent would have been the right thing to do, Jehovah would have done it. To say otherwise is haughtiness on people's part in saying they'd silence Satan in Eden, they are saying they know better than Jehovah.

 

" Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men" - 1 Corthinthians 1:25

 

 

If this was indeed a school project, then I'm sure the young brother's wish to undo all of the suffering was not intentionally "haughty"....he just hadn't thought the consequences of those particular actions all the way through to your logical conclusion.

[EccentricM]

8 minutes ago, JudyO said:

If this was indeed a school project, then I'm sure the young brother's wish to undo all of the suffering was not intentionally "haughty"....he just hadn't thought the consequences of those particular actions all the way through to your logical conclusion.

True I was thinking the person spoken of was a full adult Brother in a congregation, l missed the part that it was a child in school (my bad, I speed read at times). I can imagine the good intents of wanting to prevent evil of course, I'm sure lots of people feel that way. I just wanted to point out that it's not our place to interfere where Jehovah surely would have if it could/should have been done.

Edited February 28, 2019 by EccentricM

[JudyO]

I have a recurring thought that I haven't really been able to reason away:

 

When I think of the issue of Universal Sovereignty, I think that it is a good thing it occurred at the beginning of human history, rather than at some later point. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence. Like it really HAD to happen this way. I can't conceive of a timeline in which the events that DID happen would've happened out of order (the order in which we experienced them).

 

I know this line of reasoning can't be right. But it FEELS right.            What piece(s) am I missing????

[EccentricM]

6 minutes ago, JudyO said:

I have a recurring thought that I haven't really been able to reason away:

 

When I think of the issue of Universal Sovereignty, I think that it is a good thing it occurred at the beginning of human history, rather than at some later point. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence. Like it really HAD to happen this way. I can't conceive of a timeline in which the events that DID happen would've happened out of order (the order in which we experienced them).

 

I know this line of reasoning can't be right. But it FEELS right.            What piece(s) am I missing????

Well, if Adam and Eve resisted Satan's first attempt, perhaps the issue would have been solved right there? Perhaps that was the point of the tree in the first place. Who knows how long Satan was questioning Jehovah? Perhaps he said something along the lines of "put a tree they cannot have in the garden, and I shall tell them it will make them gods, and won't need you, I will prove every single human born from them is selfish and does not love you, starting with Adam and Eve."

 

But if that failed, perhaps the whole issue would have been dropped right there, but since Adam and Eve did sin, it opened a whole can of worms.. just an idea of a scenario on my part of course, who knows.

Edited February 28, 2019 by EccentricM

[tuntun]

 

bible says Adam and Eve fall into sin since they had eaten fruit from the Tree of the knowledge of good and bad 

but if they ate the fruit from the Tree of the knowledge of good and bad but also ate the fruit from the tree of life in the garden of eden they probably would still live now.

 

[EccentricM]

3 minutes ago, tuntun said:

 

bible says Adam and Eve fall into sin since they had eaten fruit from the Tree of the knowledge of good and bad 

but if they ate the fruit from the Tree of the knowledge of good and bad but also ate the fruit from the tree of life in the garden of eden they probably would still live now.

 

Not sure about that. The tree of life was not a magical tree with life giving powers. Jehovah promised they would die if they ate from the tree they were forbidden, if they ate from the tree of life and lived afterward, Satan would have been correct. But the tree of life was only a "symbol" of life. 

 

Quote

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001077330

A tree in the garden of Eden. The Bible does not indicate that it had inherent life-giving qualities in its fruit; instead, it represented God’s guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit.—Ge 2:9; 3:22.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by EccentricM

[Shawnster]

44 minutes ago, JudyO said:

I have a recurring thought that I haven't really been able to reason away:

 

When I think of the issue of Universal Sovereignty, I think that it is a good thing it occurred at the beginning of human history, rather than at some later point. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence. Like it really HAD to happen this way. I can't conceive of a timeline in which the events that DID happen would've happened out of order (the order in which we experienced them).

 

I know this line of reasoning can't be right. But it FEELS right.            What piece(s) am I missing????

Satan caused all the humans in the planet to rebel against Jehovah.  Had he waited until later later when more people were alive, some w oul have remained loyal to Jehovah and this would have proved Satan a liar right then and there.  The issue would have been immediately settled. 

[Newtonian]

Adding to my above post:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101992202?q=milky+way+speed&p=par

 

Excerpt:

 

"The sun, situated toward the outer edge of the galaxy, takes 200 million years to complete its orbit around the galactic center."

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101985019?q=milky+way+speed&p=par

 

Excerpt:

 

"The average distance between stars within the galaxy is said to be about six light-years, or about 36 trillion miles."

 

===========

 

So, if we could travel 10 billion miles per year it would take an average of 36,000 years to travel from one star system to the next star system.

[JudyO]

"Satan caused all the humans in the planet to rebel against Jehovah.  Had he waited until later later when more people were alive, some w oul have remained loyal to Jehovah and this would have proved Satan a liar right then and there.  The issue would have been immediately settled. "

 

That is a really good point, Shawn, I really hadn't thought of that scenario.

 

So it really could have happened at other points in time, without messing with free will, and with the SAME outcome (the vindication of Jehovah's name)

Edited February 28, 2019 by JudyO

[Newtonian]

Back on topic - the speed of our solar system around the galactic (Milky Way) center is about 515,000 mph.  

 

Some more facts about our earth's space travel:

 

https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/PatriciaKong.shtml

Bibliographic Entry	Result (w/surrounding text)	Standardized Result
Kraan-Korteweg, Renée C. & Ofer Lahav. Galaxies Behind The Milky Way. Scientific America. October 1998.	"These measurements, confirmed by the Cosmic Background Explorer satellite in 1989 and 1990, suggest that our galaxy and its neighbors, the so-called Local Group, are moving at 600 kilometers per second (1.34 million miles per hour) in the direction of the constellation Hydra."	600 km/s
Does the Milky Way move in space or does it just stay put? Archive of Ask the Space Scientist FAQs. NASA/GSFC.	"The total speed is about 300 kilometers per second or so."	300 km/s
AstroFile — Future Fate of the Milky Way Galaxy. Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy. 21 October 1997.	"The Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxy are approaching each other with a speed of 300,000 miles per hour."

[tuntun]

48 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

Not sure about that. The tree of life was not a magical tree with life giving powers. Jehovah promised they would die if they ate from the tree they were forbidden, if they ate from the tree of life and lived afterward, Satan would have been correct. But the tree of life was only a "symbol" of life.  

 

Tree of life is a real tree not just a symbol or magical tree. That tree is  different from the tree of life which revealed in the book of revelation
that's a tree in the garden of Eden. it represented God’s guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit.

The bible says adam and eve tried to found out that tree so they could ate the fruit from that tree. hoping that would undo the failure they had done.

but God posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life

so adam and eve never succed to got the fruit from that tree.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by tuntun

[EccentricM]

@tuntun What I quoted was from the Governing Body They said themselves if they ate from the tree of life after they ate from the tree of good and bad, they would not have gained any life from it, because it was only symbolic and had no actual life giving abilities.

 

The cherubs guarded the tree and the garden, not because they would have gained life from the eating of the tree, but as a sign of what they had lost, and also so they would be forced to live in the uncultivated wilderness where it would be harder for them to get by, as opposed to a life of ease in the perfect garden of Eden.

Edited February 28, 2019 by EccentricM

[Newtonian]

That last entry, the speed of Milky Way toward Andromeda, is 130 km/s.

 

The same link also notes the speed of Milky Way towards the Great Attractor at 370 miles per second (= 600 km/s)

 

Another source (same link) estimates the speed of our local group of galaxies towards the Great Attractor is c. 1,000 km/s.

 

From the same link:

 

In comparison, the earth moves around the sun at the relatively pokey rate of 30 km/s and rockets escaping the earth's gravitational pull barely move at 11 km/s.

 

Bottom line - the actual speed of rockets/spaceships would be small compared to the speed of our galaxy - so the easiest way for us to travel fast is to stay put!

 

However, we could tweak our exact arrival point by travel of spaceships over the billions of years involved.

[Newtonian]

Hmmm - Has this thread shifted from space travel to the tree of life????

 

Amazing the speed of threads to new frontiers!

[tuntun]

Maybe God created so many space objects not with the intention that humans could settle there. 

for almost a hundred year scientists using giant telescopes tried to find Earth-like planets that could sustain life. but they never succeeded. 

it is possibly God could have created all of these space objects such as giant gas planet so that we could have abundant of energy reserves so if the earth someday or somehow has running out.

this is new style of imperalism during 21th century from any country.

they don't invade any country. but rather try to control as many as possible of any land or sea which contained very rich oil and minerals.

[EccentricM]

12 minutes ago, tuntun said:

the earth someday or somehow has running out. 

This is only because of man's greed and the fact that Satan rules the earth. When Jehovah takes full control of the Earth again, it's resources will be most likely infinite. Jesus shown this with the simple demonstration of the bread and fish being multiplied for the crowds. Jehovah can make the replenishment rate of the Earth's natural resources extremly high.

[Newtonian]

1 minute ago, tuntun said:

Maybe God created so many space objects not with the intention that humans could settle there. 

for almost a hundred year scientists using giant telescopes tried to find Earth-like planets that could sustain life. but they never succeeded. 

it is possibly God could have created all of these space objects such as giant gas planet so that we could have abundant of energy reserves so if the earth someday or somehow has running out.

this is new style of imperalism during 21th century from any country.

they don't invade any country. but rather try to control as many as possible of any land or sea which contained very rich oil and minerals.

I think many of the space objects are for us to observe for their beauty - e.g. the Hubble space photos!

 

However, it is likely that there are many planets that could be terraformed like Jehovah did for our planet,

 

How many earth-like planets are there?  it depends on how many similarities - e.g. the shields that protect earth are not considered in the searches of astronomers.

 

In fact, their searches are simplistic - only considering a few factors such as size, distance from their star and average temperature (etc.).

 

Estimates vary wildly depending on how many factors are factored in - and most factors cannot be observed by man yet!

 

https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-earth-like-planets-20131105-story.html

 

The problem is with assumptions and limited data - e.g. an excerpt:

 

"Of course, there's no guarantee that any of these planets are habitable — that depends on what they're made of, whether they have protective atmospheres and whether they contain ingredients like water and other chemical building blocks necessary to support life as we know it."

[Newtonian]

4 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

This is only because of man's greed and the fact that Satan rules the earth. When Jehovah takes full control of the Earth again, it's resources will be most likely infinite. Jesus shown this with the simple demonstration of the bread and fish being multiplied for the crowds. Jehovah can make the replenishment rate of the Earth's natural resources extremly high.

True.   The many cycles in earth's environment and ecosystems actually recycle everything.   E.g. plants breathe CO2 and release O2, while animals breathe O2 and release CO2!   That could continue eternally! {CO2 = carbon dioxide; O2 is the two atom Oxygen molecule).

[Tortuga]

22 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

Hmmm - Has this thread shifted from space travel to the tree of life????

 

Amazing the speed of threads to new frontiers!

The thread has drifted but TunTun started the thread so he has some latitude to let it drift if he wants...

[EccentricM]

24 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

Amazing the speed of threads to new frontiers!

And this what my brain is like 24/7, and me trying to stay on topic....

Edited February 28, 2019 by EccentricM

[Newtonian]

1 minute ago, Tortuga said:

The thread has drifted but TunTun started the thread so he has some latitude to let it drift if he wants...

Ah yes!   Drifting in eternal space!

[EccentricM]

By the way @tuntun I hope I'm not coming off as wanting to argue or debate all your posts 😄. I'm sorry if that's the impression I give, I am only making honest replies to everything I read here, so if you ever feel like I'm just being "a devil's advocate" at any time, it is not my intention. Just wanted to make sure you knew  

[tuntun]

37 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

The thread has drifted but TunTun started the thread so he has some latitude to let it drift if he wants...

if you're following thread after thread you will know tree of life is has something to do with time travel.