So You’ve Decided to Invite...

[Thesauron]

12 minutes ago, Bjern said:I suppose the only option left then would be to eat a meal beforehand ~ that way I would not inconvenience anyone, and I would not feel like I'm being forced to eat something I feel very uncomfortable about eating.

If you don’t at least taste, that’s very rude.

 

13 minutes ago, Bjern said:

I completely agree that the vegetarian's diet shouldn't be pushed onto others, but I also completely disagree with a non-vegetarian diet being pushed onto a vegetarian.

Who said anything about pushing any diet on anyone? In their own home, people can eat only nuts if they like. When I go to someone else’s house, I eat what they serve.

 

16 minutes ago, Bjern said:

(I'm not sure why every dish must contain meat either, by the way?),

Well, some feel that they simply cannot have a meal without meat, and can’t imagine enjoying a vegetarian meal, which is what I cook most of the time. Also, I remember inviting a family, and I served them some fish a brother had caught. The reaction was “ooooh, but the kids have never had fish...” Really, it was the parents who didn’t like fish. The kids ate gladly, lol. I had cooked fish, everybody ate, we had a lovely evening, and nobody died.

 

21 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Where I'm from it would be unthinkable for a guest to bring alcohol without first asking if that's ok to do so.

Here it is a curtesy you do mainly when you go to friends you don’t know very well. Not if they are alcoholics, though.

[Thesauron]

45 minutes ago, Hope said:

I generally run the menu by my friends in the first place; they're the usual suspects generally in my service car groups. It helps me think of what would be best to cook; I love suggestions.

I never run the menu by anyone beforehand. But I do have a fun little challenge. I ask some of the guests beforehand to name an ingredient, and then I try to incorporate that into the dish I’m making. Sometimes it’s things I’ve never tried or even heard of. I read up a bit on the ingredient, and I try it out in various dishes before I settle on what to serve my guests.

[Hanah45]

We have people over about twice a month.  Usually people respond to our invitation by asking what they can bring, which is how I respond when invited.   Normally I tell them they can bring their preferred beverage.  I ask if they have any food sensitivities or preferences, and adjust the menu  accordingly.  When I am invited I don’t inquire about the menu or whose else has been invited,  but those are common questions when I invite people over.  When I am invited, I do bring a  small hostess gift, or a bottle of wine.  I do have a vegetarian friend, and I know when I go to her house, it will be a vegetarian menu, which is fine.  Usually I send a thank you card after, but lately, I have been sending a text.   Interestingly, lately, here in Arizona,  I rarely receive a thank you, verbal, card, or a a text. 

  Usually when the Circuit Overseer comes, they inform those who are providing a meal, of any sensitivities. 

This is my experience living in the Southern US, Western US, and Southern California. 

 

 

[Raven]

35 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

If you don’t at least taste, that’s very rude.

It would be rude if the host put a guest in a position that they felt they had to compromise their conscience or ignore their health concerns. I would never do that to a guest, especially if I considered them to be a friend.

 

36 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Who said anything about pushing any diet on anyone? In their own home, people can eat only nuts if they like. When I go to someone else’s house, I eat what they serve.

Knowingly cooking only meat dishes for vegetarians is indeed pushing a diet on others.

 

42 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Here it is a curtesy you do mainly when you go to friends you don’t know very well. Not if they are alcoholics, though.

If you don't know them very well, how would you know if they are alcoholics?

[Thesauron]

 

 

1 hour ago, Bjern said:

It would be rude if the host put a guest in a position that they felt they had to compromise their conscience or ignore their health concerns.

It’s one thing if they get seriously ill from a food item. That should be taken into account, I think.

 

To me, it is a conscience matter to eat mostly vegetarian and only eat meat that is well sourced, rarely and very little. It’s something I do in my home. But I will eat whatever I am served when a guest at someone’s home. I will not require them to take my dietary wishes into concern.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Thesauron

[Thesauron]

1 hour ago, Bjern said:

If you don't know them very well, how would you know if they are alcoholics?

Most of the time you don’t know, sometimes you do know.

[Raven]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

To me, it is a conscience matter to eat mostly vegetarian and only eat meat that is well sourced, rarely and very little. It’s something I do in my home. But I will eat whatever I am served when a guest at someone’s home. I will not require them to take my dietary wishes into concern.

Well that is your personal choice, and I respect that that is what you prefer. My personal choice is a little different.

 

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

Most of the time you don’t know, sometimes you do know.

What is done to avoid embarrassment if a guest brings alcohol to an alcoholic's house?

[Hope]

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

I never run the menu by anyone beforehand. But I do have a fun little challenge. I ask some of the guests beforehand to name an ingredient, and then I try to incorporate that into the dish I’m making. Sometimes it’s things I’ve never tried or even heard of. I read up a bit on the ingredient, and I try it out in various dishes before I settle on what to serve my guests.

 

That sound cool.  I can't say I've ever had an official "dinner party".. just friends coming by for something to eat and watch a movie.  My dinners are very casual affairs.  I wouldn't ask or expect anyone to bring food "they can eat" but it's customary here for people to ask if they can bring anything.  At most, I'll say a beverage or maybe dessert.

 

Regarding wine - if they bring it to me, that's great!  If I'm thinking about bringing it somewhere else, I'll ask if they're serving wine.  Their answer indicates if I bring that or the very delicious French Berry Lemonade I can get from Trader Joe's.  That's a hit with everyone!

[hatcheckgirl]

If you visit Japan and stay at a Ryokan, it is also very offensive to have food requests.  But things are changing even there, as they accommodate foreigners' tastes and health requirements.  A vegetarian (begetarian in Japanese) would usually struggle to have just a vegetarian meal, because they cook with a lot of fish, and small portions of meat.  But they eat a lot of vegetables, beautifully cooked.  So, it is also changing even in places like Japan where their food is an artform - and you risk offending the artist.

 

If you visit Bethel there, there was enough choice to accommodate all.  I wouldn't know if they cater specifically for allergies though.

 

[Raven]

1 hour ago, hatcheckgirl said:

If you visit Japan and stay at a Ryokan, it is also very offensive to have food requests.  But things are changing even there, as they accommodate foreigners' tastes and health requirements.  A vegetarian (begetarian in Japanese) would usually struggle to have just a vegetarian meal, because they cook with a lot of fish, and small portions of meat.  But they eat a lot of vegetables, beautifully cooked.  So, it is also changing even in places like Japan where their food is an artform - and you risk offending the artist.

 

If you visit Bethel there, there was enough choice to accommodate all.  I wouldn't know if they cater specifically for allergies though.

 

I have to say, food-wise Japan is a pescatarian's heaven. Also, Japanese food is so much better in Japan then elsewhere.

[Thesauron]

What is done to avoid embarrassment if a guest brings alcohol to an alcoholic's house?

I must say, I have yet to encounter that situation, but I guess people are free to dispose of it or give it to someone else. What you don’t do is decline the gift. It’s like giving a box of chocolate to someone who turns out to be severely allergic to nuts. Give it to someone else, or dispose of it, I guess.

[Thesauron]

I have to say, food-wise Japan is a pescatarian's heaven. Also, Japanese food is so much better in Japan then elsewhere.

Sushi on the Faroese Islands isn’t bad either, due to access to excellent fresh fish.

[Raven]

30 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

I must say, I have yet to encounter that situation, but I guess people are free to dispose of it or give it to someone else. What you don’t do is decline the gift. It’s like giving a box of chocolate to someone who turns out to be severely allergic to nuts. Give it to someone else, or dispose of it, I guess.

Do you mean that you think the person who is an alcoholic should accept the gift of alcohol? This is really not the same thing as someone with an allergy politely accepting a gift and giving it to someone else later.

[hatcheckgirl]

4 hours ago, Bjern said:

Do you mean that you think the person who is an alcoholic should accept the gift of alcohol? This is really not the same thing as someone with an allergy politely accepting a gift and giving it to someone else later.

Im baffled by this too. 🧐

[Thesauron]

Do you mean that you think the person who is an alcoholic should accept the gift of alcohol? This is really not the same thing as someone with an allergy politely accepting a gift and giving it to someone else later.

If I know, I wouldn’t do it, but you cannot assume things. You could ask, I guess. But this is customary. You cannot be responsible for what other people do or don’t do.

[Thesauron]

Im baffled by this too.

Why? It’s the customary way of doing things. In some countries it is customary to put a large bottle of strong alcohol on the table, in some countries it would be considered lack of good taste. Nobody asks if anyone is an alcoholic. If, on the other hand, it is a gathering of brothers who knows someone around the table has issues with alcohol, then they might want to abstain from that.

[Jeanie]

9 hours ago, Thesauron said:

I must say, I have yet to encounter that situation, but I guess people are free to dispose of it or give it to someone else. What you don’t do is decline the gift. It’s like giving a box of chocolate to someone who turns out to be severely allergic to nuts. Give it to someone else, or dispose of it, I guess.

Johan, you seem very rigid on your etiquette requirements on the matter (just my opinion, I don't mean to hurt your feelings or be harsh).  You don't want to change your menu, you don't want people to know what they are having since you like to surprise them with random ingredients, you don't want anyone to bring food to the gathering, and they can't refuse a gift.  I guess if I am having a gathering it is more about everyone being comfortable and having a good time.  If that means I learn to cook a new dish or someone brings a side dish, then I would adapt and make sure everyone is comfortable.  Remember that what makes you comfortable and is considered acceptable to you, is not always your guests thinking.  

 

I have attempted to eat a meat dish at someone's house one time.  It was a beautiful Bolivan family that cooked a dish they had back home (I forgot the name of it because it has been 20 plus years).  It smelled dreadful and I was terribly afraid to try it due to the meat and the smell.  But, I was in my teens and did not want to appear rude.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I attempted it and I spent the next several minutes in the bathroom getting sick.  I started gagging at the table.  I put everyone in a bad position by attempting to please someone else.  The family was very forgiving and I apologized repeatedly, but you can't ever forget something like that.  I knew I had hurt their feelings and was very ashamed, even though I meant no harm.  Now, having lived through that situation, I would rather politely refuse food than cause someone to experience that again. 

 

Also, I feel like it is very important to not push food on a guest, I assume that as adults they know what they want to eat and will eat accordingly. There is no need for my feelings to be hurt if they don't like a dish or don't want what I have fixed.  I could always order a pizza or make another dish for them.  Remember it is about your guests comfort not yours.

[Thesauron]

Johan, you seem very rigid on your etiquette requirements on the matter (just my opinion, I don't mean to hurt your feelings or be harsh).  You don't want to change your menu, you don't want people to know what they are having since you like to surprise them with random ingredients, you don't want anyone to bring food to the gathering, and they can't refuse a gift.  I guess if I am having a gathering it is more about everyone being comfortable and having a good time.  If that means I learn to cook a new dish or someone brings a side dish, then I would adapt and make sure everyone is comfortable.  Remember that what makes you comfortable and is considered acceptable to you, is not always your guests thinking.  
 
I have attempted to eat a meat dish at someone's house one time.  It was a beautiful Bolivan family that cooked a dish they had back home (I forgot the name of it because it has been 20 plus years).  It smelled dreadful and I was terribly afraid to try it due to the meat and the smell.  But, I was in my teens and did not want to appear rude.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I attempted it and I spent the next several minutes in the bathroom getting sick.  I started gagging at the table.  I put everyone in a bad position by attempting to please someone else.  The family was very forgiving and I apologized repeatedly, but you can't ever forget something like that.  I knew I had hurt their feelings and was very ashamed, even though I meant no harm.  Now, having lived through that situation, I would rather politely refuse food than cause someone to experience that again. 
 
Also, I feel like it is very important to not push food on a guest, I assume that as adults they know what they want to eat and will eat accordingly. There is no need for my feelings to be hurt if they don't like a dish or don't want what I have fixed.  I could always order a pizza or make another dish for them.  Remember it is about your guests comfort not yours.

If I was rigid about it, I wouldn’t ask about it or open it up for discussion. If a guest threw up because of my food, I’d consider changing the recipe for next time, or figure out if something was done wrong. To me, rules about telling people in advance what’s bing served so they can change what they don’t like is very far from what I’m used to. You cook the best you can, and share it with guests. Of course, it is very cultural how you do these things.

If a guest constantly do not want what I serve, perhaps it’s better if they don’t come for dinner. There are many other thing we can do. There’s a sister in my congregation who cooks awful food. She is really nice, and I do spend time with her, when her cooking isn’t involved.

[Jeanie]

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

If I was rigid about it, I wouldn’t ask about it or open it up for discussion. If a guest threw up because of my food, I’d consider changing the recipe for next time, or figure out if something was done wrong. To me, rules about telling people in advance what’s bing served so they can change what they don’t like is very far from what I’m used to. You cook the best you can, and share it with guests. Of course, it is very cultural how you do these things.

If a guest constantly do not want what I serve, perhaps it’s better if they don’t come for dinner. There are many other thing we can do. There’s a sister in my congregation who cooks awful food. She is really nice, and I do spend time with her, when her cooking isn’t involved.

Your story about the sister and her cooking made me laugh.  I think you and I just have different opinions about things.  I did look up hospitality in Stockholm and was surprised about some of the customs.  It was a great learning experience for me.  

[hatcheckgirl]

Yes, it seems rigid and iunChristian. Because it goes against so many principles. Yes, I agree as a host you cook the best you can for your guests. But we are not talking about picky guests here, otherwise I agree with you that it doesn’t show honour towards the host. 

 

And likewise, we show honour to our guests by providing food they will actually enjoy and be able to eat. Make us happy as hosts that they enjoy the food we took time to prepare and present. 

 

 

[Raven]

12 hours ago, Thesauron said:

If I know, I wouldn’t do it, but you cannot assume things. You could ask, I guess. But this is customary. You cannot be responsible for what other people do or don’t do.

I had thought that this was a given, but I will try to explain...Giving alcohol to an alcoholic, especially if they feel obligated to accept it, is a recipe for stumbling the alcoholic ~ how would you feel if that same person gave into temptation to start drinking again because of that gift that they were obliged to take? That is the very definition of being stumbled. Maybe they have been sober for years, and never have any alcohol in their house, and a simple act like that could potentially trigger their addiction that they put so much effort into freeing themselves of...It could happen. At any rate, we usually don't know who are alcoholics. It seems risky to give alcohol to others as a gift unless you already know that they are not an alcoholic.

Ask yourself, is it more important to do something that is customary, even if it risks stumbling a fellow Christian?

 

7 hours ago, Thesauron said:

You cook the best you can, and share it with guests. Of course, it is very cultural how you do these things.

The only perfect culture is the culture that Jehovah has provided us within His organization. We have a culture of love and consideration, putting others first, and avoiding stumbling others. This is the culture we should always consider first.

[Thesauron]

3 minutes ago, Bjern said:

I had thought that this was a given, but I will try to explain...Giving alcohol to an alcoholic, especially if they feel obligated to accept it, is a recipe for stumbling the alcoholic ~ how would you feel if that same person gave into temptation to start drinking again because of that gift that they were obliged to take? That is the very definition of being stumbled. Maybe they have been sober for years, and never have any alcohol in their house, and a simple act like that could potentially trigger their addiction that they put so much effort into freeing themselves of...It could happen. At any rate, we usually don't know who are alcoholics. It seems risky to give alcohol to others as a gift unless you already know that they are not an alcoholic.

Ask yourself, is it more important to do something that is customary, even if it risks stumbling a fellow Christian?

You don’t give alcohol to someone you know is an alcoholic. You would not knowingly do anything to stumble anyone. But giving someone you do not know to be an alcoholic a bottle of wine is considered alright here, even by brothers in the congregation. Same if you invite a group of friends. You might serve alcohol. You don’t have to ask if anyone has issues with that. But if you know that someone have issues with alcohol, or if they tell you, you might want to refrain. Do you feel you have to ask in advance?

[Thesauron]

Yes, it seems rigid and iunChristian. Because it goes against so many principles. Yes, I agree as a host you cook the best you can for your guests. But we are not talking about picky guests here, otherwise I agree with you that it doesn’t show honour towards the host. 
 
And likewise, we show honour to our guests by providing food they will actually enjoy and be able to eat. Make us happy as hosts that they enjoy the food we took time to prepare and present. 
 
 

You prepare the best food you can, and sometimes your meal will cater to everyone wishes, sometimes not. But you can still prepare a fine meal and good association. An Iranian sister expressed it like this: “The host prepares what the host wants to eat and share it with her guests.” Is that rigid and unchristian to you?

[Raven]

14 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

You don’t give alcohol to someone you know is an alcoholic. You would not knowingly do anything to stumble anyone. But giving someone you do not know to be an alcoholic a bottle of wine is considered alright here, even by brothers in the congregation. Same if you invite a group of friends. You might serve alcohol. You don’t have to ask if anyone has issues with that. But if you know that someone have issues with alcohol, or if they tell you, you might want to refrain. Do you feel you have to ask in advance?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that before you said that the person would be obligated to accept the gift of alcohol ~ of course, assuming the giver doesn't know that they are an alcoholic. It wouldn't be the giver's fault, as they were unaware. That's not the issue here, the issue is that the person who happens to be an alcoholic is obliged to accept the alcohol...As you said earlier, like a person with a nut allergy accepting a gift containing nuts. While I can understand someone politely accepting a gift despite an allergy (as they intend to give it to someone else later), this really is not the same kind of situation. The alcoholic likely has real risk of being tempted to drink the alcohol, so for the sake of not being stumbled, it should be fine for him/her to turn down the gift, even without telling the giver that they have a problem with alcohol...Does that make sense to you?

 

14 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

You don’t have to ask if anyone has issues with that. But if you know that someone have issues with alcohol, or if they tell you, you might want to refrain. Do you feel you have to ask in advance?

I think it would be rude to ask if someone is an alcoholic, however I feel it would be both wise and considerate to ask in advance if it's ok to bring/serve alcohol, particularly if you do not know the other person well.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Bjern

[Thesauron]

5 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that before you said that the person would be obligated to accept the gift of alcohol ~ of course, assuming the giver doesn't know that they are an alcoholic.

That’s what the etiquette book says. They are, however, free to dispose of it, or give it to someone else. I guess, returning it to the giver could case a rift that’s unwanted. Although some are fine with it, some are very offended to get a gift returned to them, so it’s usually best not to. I wouldn’t know, though. Nobody has ever returned a gift to me.

12 minutes ago, Bjern said:

I think it would be rude to ask if someone is an alcoholic, however I feel it would be both wise and considerate to ask in advance if it's ok to bring/serve alcohol, particularly if you do not know the other person well.

The branch office didn’t ask when they, a while ago, invited selected brothers and their families for a formal dinner party where they served wine. Did they do wrong?