So You’ve Decided to Invite...

[hatcheckgirl]

@BjernThat’s the way I would go about it. My point in being Christian about this is to not stumble our brothers and sisters - and giving a gift of alcohol to someone you know is an alcoholic is temptation. If I had unknowingly brought alcohol to a dinner where there was an recovering alcoholic friend, I would not be offended if this gift was refused. Discernment would lead me to the conclusion that there is a good reason for this refusal. Similarly, if my gift of nut chocolate was refused because it would cause allergy to my host, humility would prevent me from being offended. 

 

That book of ettiquette, Johan, is pleasant, but not a good guide for this modern world. Cultural sensitivities, as important as they obviously are, cannot nullify avoiding Christian principles in order not to stumble or hurt our brothers and sisters. To be accommodating is to be Christian. To insist on ettiquette or customs, may be unpleasant or even dangerous to guests. Communication is the better way to go. Just asking “Is there anything you can’t eat?” Shows the guest you care enough about them, and they in turn will greatly appreciate the host's efforts in preparing the meal that all can enjoy.

[Shawnster]

Responsibility really works both ways, doesn't it?  A responsible host will try to make sure the incited guests have or don't have food allergies me adjust accordingly.  Finding out dietary restrictions would also be a kindness. 

 

Likewise, the guest would be wise to alert the ghost to any food allergies or dietary restrictions on advance, especially if the host failed to ask. This could be a life saving measure in some instances and avoid embarrassing or uncomfortable situations in other instances. 

 

Like high said, is its a friend, I would hope I know in advance their dietary wants and needs. 

 

Circuit overseers, at least our last two or three, indicate in their letter to the congregation any dietary requirements.

 

My daughter in law is vegetarian and so is her mother.  My DIL will eat fish but doesn't tell people this because they will always then fix fish when inviting her over.  I've Ben looking at recipes to accommodate her.  We hade vegetarian chili once. Anther fine when she and her parents were over I fixed pasta shells.  Both times we had meat on side for those who wanted it.  At their wedding reception they had both meat and non meat dishes.  At their bridal shower we had lasagna both meat and meatless.  Next time we have the kids over we plan to make a Margherita stromboli with cheese, basil and tomatoes. 

 

 

[Raven]

11 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

That’s what the etiquette book says. They are, however, free to dispose of it, or give it to someone else. I guess, returning it to the giver could case a rift that’s unwanted. Although some are fine with it, some are very offended to get a gift returned to them, so it’s usually best not to. I wouldn’t know, though. Nobody has ever returned a gift to me.

So in such a situation the person who is an alcoholic has to make a choice: 1) Risk offending the giver and perhaps causing an unwanted rift, or 2) seriously risk their own spiritual health...

 

Galatians 5:19-21 ~ "Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are...drunkenness...and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

 

Which choice would you make in such a situation?

 

12 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

 

The branch office didn’t ask when they, a while ago, invited selected brothers and their families for a formal dinner party where they served wine. Did they do wrong?

It's interesting that it was selected brothers and their families. It's good to know all the details.

[Thesauron]

12 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

To insist on ettiquette or customs, may be unpleasant or even dangerous to guests. Communication is the better way to go. Just asking “Is there anything you can’t eat?” Shows the guest you care enough about them, and they in turn will greatly appreciate the host's efforts in preparing the meal that all can enjoy.

You should definitely take into account if something threatens to make your guests seriously ill, or kill them. Severe allergies might do this. It is a guests responsibility to inform in good time about such allergies, I think. A meat eater cannot expect to be served meat at a dinner party hosted by a vegetarian, and that host should not feel there is an obligation to provide it, even if the guest would love it. It isn’t unchristian to serve what the host likes to eat, I believe.

[Sylv]

Serving wine at my house is not the same as bringing a bottle to someone who has a problem with alcohol. I usually ask if I can bring wine.

 

Also, just wondering what the etiquette book may have to say about toasting. Should we follow their instructions on that?

[Thesauron]

2 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Which choice would you make in such a situation?

Now we’re enter8ng a hypothetical question I have never encountered in real life. Is declining the gift and risk a relationship breakdown easier than accepting it and disposing it? Only an alcoholic could answer.

 

7 minutes ago, Bjern said:

It's interesting that it was selected brothers and their families. It's good to know all the details.

They were invited as opposed to an open house. But the branch committee didn’t know everyone personally. So, no, they had no idea if someone was an alcoholic, and they didn’t ask in advance. They served food and a couple of glasses of wine.

[Thesauron]

6 minutes ago, Sylv said:

Serving wine at my house is not the same as bringing a bottle to someone who has a problem with alcohol. I usually ask if I can bring wine.

 

Also, just wondering what the etiquette book may have to say about toasting. Should we follow their instructions on that?

You should never bring wine to someone you know have a problem with alcohol.

 

I guess toasting depends on how it’s done and why. Some are ok with it, some are not. But that’s a discussion for a whole different thread.

[Raven]

20 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

You should definitely take into account if something threatens to make your guests seriously ill, or kill them. Severe allergies might do this. It is a guests responsibility to inform in good time about such allergies, I think.

Spiritually speaking, alcohol is something that can threaten to make your guests seriously ill, or even end up killing them.

 

20 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

A meat eater cannot expect to be served meat at a dinner party hosted by a vegetarian, and that host should not feel there is an obligation to provide it, even if the guest would love it. It isn’t unchristian to serve what the host likes to eat, I believe.

Ok, so there's more to understand about this than that. I don't know of anyone who eats meat but finds eating non-meat food to be a conscience issue, or can only eat meat for health reasons? Any pure carnivores out there? I'll theorize about this for a moment...If I was inviting a pure carnivore over for a meal, I wouldn't expect them to eat vegetables or fruit, especially if it bothered their conscience to do so, or they had some health reason for it. I'd be very happy for them to bring a pure meat dish with them to eat and/or share. I certainly wouldn't try to force vegetables or fruit onto them, and wouldn't be offended if they declined to eat any.

 

9 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Now we’re enter8ng a hypothetical question I have never encountered in real life.

That is a way to put ourselves in other people's shoes, so to speak. Good empathy practice.

 

9 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Is declining the gift and risk a relationship breakdown easier than accepting it and disposing it? Only an alcoholic could answer.

Each individual is different, but consider this: Risking one relationship because of declining a risky gift isn't ideal, but what would be worse is eventually getting disfellowshipped due to the addiction it could trigger, which would affect all of your Christian relationships.

 

9 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

They were invited as opposed to an open house. But the branch committee didn’t know everyone personally. So, no, they had no idea if someone was an alcoholic, and they didn’t ask in advance. They served food and a couple of glasses of wine.

Regardless, I'm sure that the wine was optional. Obviously in such a situation it would the person's responsibility if they accept the drink or not.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Bjern

[carlos]

I don't fully understand the issues here. If I invite someone for dinner I want them to feel well and comfortable and enjoy the food. Forcing them to eat something they dislike or find disgusting doesn't make sense. If I know my guest is vegetarian, I wouldn't offer him meat. If I know he dislikes cheese, or seafood, or fish or whatever, what's the point in serving it to them? To make them feel disgusted?

 

We also have to admit there are different tastes. If my guest prefers some more salt in his food, it doesn't mean I didn't cook it well, it just means our taste is different. It doesn't cost me anything to put a salt-shaker on the table. Some people like their meat rare while others prefer it well-done. Why wouldn't someone adapt to the tastes of his guests? What's the point?

 

Regarding alcohol, of course I wouldn't bring a bottle of wine to someone who is an alcoholic the same as I wouldn't offer a beer to a guest who used to have problems with alcohol. But when a group of friends are invited I offer them wine, water and some sodas, and they each choose what they prefer. If they are alcoholic, it's their responsibility, not mine, to pick a soda instead. On the other hand, if I offer someone a drink and they refuse it I would never insist.

 

I don't think this is so complicated. Simply do your best to have your guests feel comfortable.

 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

What about this. You cook up a nice meal. Invited guests can be told what each food contains so that they can make the choice on whether they can eat it or not.  As an example, a recipe calls for some alcohol in a dessert. Mention that the dessert contains alcohol so that the guests are aware. (See example https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101993892?q=serving+alcohol&p=par ).

 

But you then run the risk of having no one eat the food you took ages to prepare.

 

Or do you not mention that tablespoon of liqueur which would not cause intoxication anyway? Is that for the host to decide? Is it imposing on the guest's freedom and/or conscience?

 

I do understand what you are saying regarding the host's rights to prepare what they want to, and that the invited ones should show gratitude. That is certainly basic ettiquette. And yet, it is more than just that, isn’t it?

 

To me, it seems better to communicate before. 

Host : Is there anything you can’t eat?

Guest : Just to let you know, I can’t have gluten etc. Don’t worry if you’ve already cooked though, I can bring ...(or offer other solution)

[Qapla]

Much of this thread has centered around "certain diets", like meat, vegies, etc. There has been some mention of allergies - it seems most apply this situation to nuts (like peanuts)

 

To say that someone should "at least taste the food" is not always a good idea.

 

A guy I work with could end up sick if he did that. Mind you, he can eat nuts just fine. He is allergic to ONIONS      At least, he is allergic to raw onions. If they are cooked he can eat them. His mother could not eat them cooked or raw    

 

His allergy is such that, when we go to lunch at a sandwich place (like Subway) - if they dress my sub before they do his, he has to ask them to change their gloves. Even that little bit of onion will make him sick.

 

So, if you made a salad and it had onions in it, maybe chopped finely, and he ate that ... or even tasted it ... he would be sick and maybe even have to go to the hospital.

 

My FIL wants his meat cooked well, well, well, well, well done. If it has any color in it that, to him, does not look well done he will tell you it is raw and he will NOT eat it ... period! You may have cooked a roast or steak so that it is medium-rare (or even medium ... even medium-well) he positively will NOT eat it ... not unless you cook it "all the way done" (an I mean done to the point it is "brown" all the way through for beef) he views it as raw.

 

Personally, I like my food "hot" (spicy). Now, if you make BBQ or Tacos that are "normal" - would it be rude for me to ask for some hot sauce? I would not expect you to make all the BBQ or Tacos to my heat liking ... then others may not be able to eat it. After all, I can add some extra heat, they cannot take it out.

 

If my culture is not that same as your, so be it ... I will not try to convince you that you should serve a meal the same as I would ...

[Thesauron]

I don't fully understand the issues here. If I invite someone for dinner I want them to feel well and comfortable and enjoy the food. Forcing them to eat something they dislike or find disgusting doesn't make sense. If I know my guest is vegetarian, I wouldn't offer him meat. If I know he dislikes cheese, or seafood, or fish or whatever, what's the point in serving it to them? To make them feel disgusted?
 
We also have to admit there are different tastes. If my guest prefers some more salt in his food, it doesn't mean I didn't cook it well, it just means our taste is different. It doesn't cost me anything to put a salt-shaker on the table. Some people like their meat rare while others prefer it well-done. Why wouldn't someone adapt to the tastes of his guests? What's the point?
 
Regarding alcohol, of course I wouldn't bring a bottle of wine to someone who is an alcoholic the same as I wouldn't offer a beer to a guest who used to have problems with alcohol. But when a group of friends are invited I offer them wine, water and some sodas, and they each choose what they prefer. If they are alcoholic, it's their responsibility, not mine, to pick a soda instead. On the other hand, if I offer someone a drink and they refuse it I would never insist.
 
I don't think this is so complicated. Simply do your best to have your guests feel comfortable.
 
 

The point is, you, as a host, should not feel that it is a necessity to take into account every dietary wish of your guests. You don’t have to ask in advance what people like or dislike, it isn’t ‘rigid and unchristian’. You still offer them a great meal. Serious allergies is a necessity to take into account, though.

[Thesauron]

5 hours ago, Qapla said:

There has been some mention of allergies - it seems most apply this situation to nuts (like peanuts)

 

To say that someone should "at least taste the food" is not always a good idea.

A friend of mine has a very serious nut allergy. When he is invited, I don’t even have an opened bag of nuts at home. He would have to go to the emergency, or could possibly die or get severely handicapped from exposure.

 

Then there might be things that he doesn’t like to eat. If there is, he has not even mentioned it.

[Raven]

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

The point is, you, as a host, should not feel that it is a necessity to take into account every dietary wish of your guests. You don’t have to ask in advance what people like or dislike, it isn’t ‘rigid and unchristian’. You still offer them a great meal. Serious allergies is a necessity to take into account, though.

How about mild allergies and food intolerances that are not life threatening?

[Thesauron]

How about mild allergies and food intolerances that are not life threatening?

Milk might make my tummy rumble a bit. It’s not a big thing people need to take into account. I don’t use much of it myself, but it doesn’t kill me, so I’m not too concerned if someone uses it in a meal. I wouldn’t ask a host to make a special menu because of it.

[Raven]

9 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Milk might make my tummy rumble a bit. It’s not a big thing people need to take into account. I don’t use much of it myself, but it doesn’t kill me, so I’m not too concerned if someone uses it in a meal. I wouldn’t ask a host to make a special menu because of it.

Ok, so then weak allergies, intolerances, conscience issues, health concerns, and taste preferences...Essentially, only if the food is actually life threatening to the guest, otherwise, whatever the reason may be, you'd expect the guest to at least try whatever the host decides to cook? (Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Just going through all that you've said thus far.)

[Sylv]

1 hour ago, Bjern said:

Ok, so then weak allergies, intolerances, conscience issues, health concerns, and taste preferences...Essentially, only if the food is actually life threatening to the guest, otherwise, whatever the reason may be, you'd expect the guest to at least try whatever the host decides to cook? (Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Just going through all that you've said thus far.)

What if your host is from a culture that eats animals we consider pets? Would you eat horse meat? (I have, growing up). How about dog meat?  

[Old]

12 minutes ago, Sylv said:

What if your host is from a culture that eats animals we consider pets? Would you eat horse meat? (I have, growing up). How about dog meat?  

If they bled it I would eat it. Horse is good! 

 

The following is off topic but with mention of my Prineville days it came to mind so I will share it.

The high desert around Prineville was open range. My father in law had a 12,000 acre ranch and ran about 500 head of cattle.  Because it was open range the cattle tended to get mixed up. Come roundup and branding time some of the neighbors doggies would get corraled by mistake. Often time neighborring ranchers would assist each other in this seperating and gathering up the calves. This round up and branding was quite an event and would be followed a big barbeque. One of the neighbors was enjoying the barbeque and bragged that in his 50 years on the Crooked River he had never eaten his own beef, to which my father in law growled "Well your eating it now, so shutup!" 

At least it wasn't horse!

 

 

[Loopy]

 A little further off topic.  We had a young sister go to Africa some time ago. There no part of an animal is tossed. I think it was a soup or something that had goat hair in it. This sister was so kind she didn’t want to hurt their feelings so she fought with all her might to get it down. 

 

Me? I gag very easily. 🤢 No matter how hard I would have tried. I would never be able to get that down.

 

Now as to eating horse. Nope! Nadda. I couldn’t and wouldn’t.  That would make doing OMAD or 0 meals a day really easy. 

 

 

[Raven]

2 hours ago, Sylv said:

What if your host is from a culture that eats animals we consider pets? Would you eat horse meat? (I have, growing up). How about dog meat?  

No thank you, I personally would not.

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, Loopy said:

Now as to eating horse. Nope! Nadda. I couldn’t and wouldn’t. 

If you ate at Burger King in 2013 you might have had horsemeat...

[Pjdriver]

10 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

If you ate at Burger King in 2013 you might have had horsemeat...

Are you telling whoppers again? Ok, have it your way. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Pjdriver

[Tortuga]

16 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

Are you telling whoppers again? Ok, have it your way. 

Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce.

A little horsemeat wont upset us...

[hatcheckgirl]

 

Just eat your ham, ok?

(I'm not good at rhyme 😉)

[dove]

47 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

 

Just eat your ham, ok?

(I'm not good at rhyme 😉)

Sam I am...