Whatsapp to share data with Facebook

[M.J.]

This reminds me of those people who have done a project to try to buy products only made in USA, and it never works, it's virtually impossible. Trying to go "off-grid" regarding your privacy, isn't realistic.  We're beyond that. Too many people don't realize that all our information is already out there. It's the entire system. 

 

Ps. Some applications through Jw.org specially ask you if you use WhatsApp, as this appears to be their preferred method.

[Brandon]

15 minutes ago, M.J. said:

This reminds me of those people who have done a project to try to buy products only made in USA, and it never works, it's virtually impossible. Trying to go "off-grid" regarding your privacy, isn't realistic.  We're beyond that. Too many people don't realize that all our information is already out there. It's the entire system. 

 

Ps. Some applications through Jw.org specially ask you if you use WhatsApp, as this appears to be their preferred method.

It's actually very easy to abstain from Facebook. Literally 2 billion people right now use the Internet and don't have a Facebook account...

[Hope]

Facebook is awesome 👌 

[Thesauron]

Facebook is awesome  

Wonder what you’d have to pay if it was a service that earned it’s revenue from you giving them money instead of every inch of privacy for them to sell...

[M.J.]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

It's actually very easy to abstain from Facebook. Literally 2 billion people right now use the Internet and don't have a Facebook account...

But I'm talking about the entire infrastructure,  not just FB

[Brandon]

1 minute ago, M.J. said:

I'm talking about the entire infrastructure

what infrastructures are you talking about? if you're thinking about the worldwide web, then that would actually be amazon, whose AWS serves up a massive amount of the most popular webpages these days.

[M.J.]

I'm talking about virtually anywhere you go on web, someone is tracking you. It's not possible to be untracked.

[Hope]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Wonder what you’d have to pay if it was a service that earned it’s revenue from you giving them money instead of every inch of privacy for them to sell...

Definitely more than I would give them. But I've met lovely, amazing people on Facebook and it's been a bit of a lifeline for me- especially during the pandemic. I'm grateful for it.

[Thesauron]

I'm talking about virtually anywhere you go on web, someone is tracking you. It's not possible to be untracked.

It is possible, but it takes a bit of work. However, you might think twice before you willingly give away everything about yourself.

[Thesauron]

Definitely more than I would give them. But I've met lovely, amazing people on Facebook and it's been a bit of a lifeline for me- especially during the pandemic. I'm grateful for it.

It if it’s so important at and good for you, wouldn’t it be better and cheaper to give them a couple of bucks instead of everything about you? Because as it is, you are the commodity. You are the one being sold.

[Brandon]

One of the reasons I don’t use anything from Facebook is because of the role that the company played in the Rohingya genocide. 

[M.J.]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

It is possible, but it takes a bit of work. However, you might think twice before you willingly give away everything about yourself.

I disagree. It's virtually impossible. I'm thinking in terms of information exposed and security. The very fact you are on here means that you are already gave your information to someone else. Do you have a bank account, a credit card?  You have authorized release of your information to someone else, and you have no way to control what security precautions they are or are not taking, even unintentionally.

Edited March 21, 2021 by M.J.

[Qapla]

I get "junk mail" that the only place that particular information (name spelling and address) exists is on my Driver License - yes, the DMV sells the information (or gives it away) so - just doing daily, mundane things allows others to get your info ... Facebook is not the only place that does that. 

[Jay]

I sometimes wonder if I can leave everything digital for the sake of privacy

[Thesauron]

I disagree. It's virtually impossible. I'm thinking in terms of information exposed and security. The very fact you are on here means that you are already gave your information to someone else. Do you have a bank account, a credit card?  You have authorized release of your information to someone else, and you have no way to control what security precautions they are or are not taking, even unintentionally.

As far as the TOS for this site states, the information gathered here is not sold to a third party. It is possible, believe it or not. Lots of people control to a very large degree how their private information is used.

I get "junk mail" that the only place that particular information (name spelling and address) exists is on my Driver License - yes, the DMV sells the information (or gives it away) so - just doing daily, mundane things allows others to get your info ... Facebook is not the only place that does that. 

That is true. Google and many sorts of social media are experts at selling your info and tell you their services are free. It’s not free. The price is rather steep.

[Hope]

18 hours ago, Thesauron said:

It if it’s so important at and good for you, wouldn’t it be better and cheaper to give them a couple of bucks instead of everything about you? Because as it is, you are the commodity. You are the one being sold.

Perhaps. But I am honestly not bothered. It's up to me if I buy anything based on my algorithms. What they gain from buying me? It doesn't matter. Jehovah will sort it eventually 🤷🏽‍♀️

[Thesauron]

Perhaps. But I am honestly not bothered. It's up to me if I buy anything based on my algorithms. What they gain from buying me? It doesn't matter. Jehovah will sort it eventually

These companies know how to press your buttons to make you do what they want. Sometimes it”a not companies, sometimes it”a organisations doing the same thing. This is the benefit big data gives to those who know how to use it. Is it bad? I don’t know, but we should be aware,that what appears to be free is t really free.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Hope said:

It's up to me if I buy anything based on my algorithms.

Do you know how marketing works?

[Hope]

4 hours ago, Brandon said:

Do you know how marketing works?

Yes, very well aware - I've worked in advertising and marketing for most of my adult life.  I am genuinely not concerned about any personal ill effects.  I do not care... I have too many other things to worry about.  Feeding marketing trolls with my secret desires is not even one of them. 😉 

[Brandon]

33 minutes ago, Hope said:

with my secret desires

I would be more concerned with the desires that consumer marketing implants into you without your conscious decision making processes involved, but I guess I’m crazy like that for protecting my self agency. 

[M.J.]

Another factor is that everyone is different. I rarely even notice the advertisements.

[EccentricM]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

I would be more concerned with the desires that consumer marketing implants into you without your conscious decision making processes involved, but I guess I’m crazy like that for protecting my self agency. 

It only works on the weak minded, or people who have no sense of self or authentic agency. They see an ad and just click it "sure ok!" Impulsive buyers with no secondary thought proccess.

 

We see adds all around us every day, stores put out things to buy in shop windows. If we lived life with this mentality you suggest, we'd have to wear blindfolds every time we went out the house. It's about self control. Unless you're telling me you buy every single item in every shop window which says "SALE" on it?

 

1 hour ago, M.J. said:

Another factor is that everyone is different. I rarely even notice the advertisements.

As MJ says here, I myself don't even pay attention to ads. To be afraid of ads in such a way is to suggest nobody has any self awareness or control over their spending.

 

Accusing people of not being smart, and that they are at risk of being brainwashed, just because they don't avoid ads is a pretty extreme mentalilty. People are not that fickle (I hope?).

 

 

Ads are not some all powerful force. If it were that easy to remove a person's agency, we'd all be drones by now to whatever evil system is out there wanting all our money and loyalty. They'd just have to put posters on the streets telling people what to do and what to think, and BAM, everybody would be hypnotised!

 

If consumer marketing was 'that' powerful, then you'd not even notice it or be able to avoid it, you'd already be a slave, and would be buying things 24/7 that you don't even want, but... none of us are doing that. You have to be persuaded into wanting something first, conciously, and how successful that is depends on your willpower and independence.

 

Now if you're one of these fools who always has to follow a crowd and be "in the popularity race", who is easily hypnotised by the "Lynx effect" promises, expecting a herd of women to run at you from the bushes because of your deodorent (lol), then ads may be an issue... but other than that...  

 

If you ARE one of these easily lead people however, you're already doomed from the start, ads or no ads. Ads are only poison to people who are already of that thoughtless materialistic mindset.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by EccentricM

[EccentricM]

@Brandon I should also add this interesting quesion on the power of ads and of agency:

 

What is agency and free will? To make a choice out of the things presented to us.

 

As a person born in Canada, are you robbed of agency? For you've only known Canadian life. I could argue, your agency has been robbed, for your whole life has been lived in one giant advertisement for Candian products and life style. You didn't get the choice of Japan, or.. Poland, or Britian when you were in the womb, you made your life choices based upon what was presented to you. (As it is with us all, with tastes, etc. We are moulded by what is availible to us to experience).

 

So.. what is an ad? A graphic? A piece of text? A cake in a window? Me wearing a jacket you like the look of? Let's say the latter... did I rob your agency because I exposed to you this jacket you've never seen before? Which you happened to like the look of and so you go to buy one?

 

The same can be said of ads. It's just strategic exposure, but it works on the same prinicples of life itself. When we experience things, we make judgements on them, if it is for us or not. It's not magic, it's not brainwashing, it's just control of what people see and hear, to direct their attention in order to limit what they have to "choose from", but... there is still "choice", nobody is forced into buying things because an ad told them so.

 

Of course, ads try to persuade people into thinking they "need" something, like the next phone, or some other object they don't actually need or want in life, but it promises them something, like power, popularity, etc (things that work typically on the shallow, or gullible). If you're neither of those things, ads have little to lure you with. Being your own man is the key. Knowing what 'you' want and need. Never has an ad ever persuaded me into wanting something, I've only ever bought things according to my interests (of which are never advertised, lol)

 

Otherwise, we could argue that there is no freewill, for life itself in every second is one big advertisement, if you think about it in a mechanical sense.

Edited March 22, 2021 by EccentricM

[Brandon]

14 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

As a person born in Canada, are you robbed of agency? For you've only known Canadian life

Not only do I have no idea what you’re getting at, you also have completely forgotten that I have lived in other countries, something I told you before our falling out. And I won’t be discussing this or any other topic with you here. Take care. 

[EccentricM]

15 minutes ago, Brandon said:

you also have completely forgotten that I have lived in other countries,

My bad. But my principle was about exposure and the mechanics of life... we are all born where we are, or.. on the whole have limited options to choose from in life as we are not creators like Jehovah, we are subject to the elements around us, which was my point. And that ads are just more of these "elements" but are really not that much different from being exposed to whatever other choices we make in life (which is all just presentation and experience, ads being the "attempt" to control people's experience of presentation of choices, ie; promotion of attention, but other than that does not have some magical ability to brainwash and control people who are not gulible or easily lead. That was all I was really trying to say, I was being philosophical and challenging the definition of what an "ad" technically was, and what "brainwashing" technically was/wasn't).

 

15 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I won’t be discussing this or any other topic with you

Fair enough then...

Edited March 22, 2021 by EccentricM