Whatsapp to share data with Facebook

[Leonard Match Valid]

Sorry brothers if it is not here that have to post this but I would like information from you:

Here in Brazil, it looks like the whatsapp APP it will stop working in February if there is no account linked to Facebook which I believe that most if not all of our brothers here do not have.

We have in the APP cleaning groups, field trips and meetings, in addition to all the contacts of our brothers.

Is there any information about the body of elders to stop using the APP in their country or migrate to another APP? Or still use the same one but with the account linked with Facebook?

Any information from the Governing Body?

I would like kindly opinions.

Thankful.
 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Shawnster
Edited Title.

[Brandon]

Yes, here Canada Bethel instructed our groups to use Signal.

 

Personally I use Telegram and Signal. both are good, they sort of complement each other

[M.J.]

I have not seen anything requiring a FB account. Did you read something specifically saying this?

[Leonard Match Valid]

2 minutes ago, M.J. said:

Não vi nada que exija uma conta no FB. Você leu algo especificamente dizendo isso?

yes, major electronic newspapers report this ... the partnership with Facebook and a linked account

[Brandon]

34 minutes ago, M.J. said:

 

I have not seen anything requiring a FB account.

 

They mentioned more than a year ago “new, tighter integration” between their main Messenger and two of the big companies they acquired over the last decade (instagram and whatsapp).

 

it could be that they haven’t (yet) forced Facebook accounts onto WhatsApp users, but it’s very likely to happen sooner or later: there was a time you could download Messenger and use it without having a Facebook account!  Eventually they changed Messenger so that it required you to either sign in with Fb or make a new Fb account. 
 

this company has a pattern of: (1) learning everything about each of their users and (2) harmonizing the profiles of each person using their various products into a centralized whole, which is under its complete control. 

 

You can read all the goals Zuckerberg announced on his blog, which includes incorporating your phone’s SMS text messages into your centralized Facebook account. This is already happening on android, although apple hasn’t yet allowed it on iOS: https://www.facebook.com/notes/mark-zuckerberg/a-privacy-focused-vision-for-social-networking/10156700570096634/

 

These are just the things he writes publicly! Imagine what is going on in his head, and what actual goals he imagines. 

[On the huh]

I don't remember any direction on using Whatsapp or any social media app.  Whether congregations use it or whatever platform they use was a decision made the elders.

The only direction I could find was this:

 

"As a kind reminder, elders should take care not to promote electronic tools in ways that go beyond what has been directed by the organization."

 

Whatsapp was suggested as a means of sharing video files, but that is all.

[Qapla]

Our Congregation is in the process of migrating to Signal ... WhatsApp groups the Elders have been using with each other and the Congregation group will be discontinued on Jan 31 and the "conversations" deleted.

 

There was no information about WhatsApp given to the Congregation, just the direction to change to Signal, The Congregation was given the direction the direction shortly after the meeting Sunday. By evening, about 90% of the Congregation had already migrated to Signal.

 

We have also started using JW Scheduler - all of the announcements and anything else that would normally be posted of the "information board" at the KH are now available on the JWS app. We are no longer receiving announcements on WhatsApp.

 

[Leonard Match Valid]

Thank you brothers.

yes brother Jonathan ... there is really nothing about GB maybe I put it incorrectly ... it is a matter more related to the body of elders ... thanks for the correct direction.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Leonard Match Valid

[Brandon]

33 minutes ago, On the huh said:

 

I don't remember any direction on using Whatsapp or any social media app

 

It’s important we not conflate messaging apps with social media apps. 

[Dages]

I'm in Signal and even Element.io 

I'm ready

 

 

 

[Brandon]

40 minutes ago, On the huh said:

whatever platform they use was a decision made the elders

I think you’re probably looking at this more narrowly than the others commenting here: we’re not just talking about ‘inside the congregation,’ we’re talking about inside bethel, for tours communications, as well as for construction related activities and volunteers, and other activities like convention planning.

 

for example, while no one in my mom’s congregation were using whatsapp, she still was asked to download it by a brother who was heading the department of the Convention committee that my mom was volunteering with. That brother may not even have been an elder, but she naturally complied even though it cost her monetarily, because her cellphone didn’t have a data plan before then.

 

So when we’re talking about our organization having made extensive use of whatsapp, this did not necessarily come in the form of “that BOE uses it, this one doesn’t, that one uses another app.”

 

even on tours.jw.org there is a reference to whatsapp, and this is our official website! Not everything gets communicated formally through letters. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Brandon

[Luisabola]

We have a group and congregation WhatsApp. And the service overseer started one for all the sisters in our hall for sorting out appointments for the co’s wife on ministry, which we kicked him out of after the week was up, and have kept as a chat between us sisters haha. 

[New World Explorer]

How is this end of WhatsApp? All works fine here Down Under? 

Perhaps the title should be edited? 

[On the huh]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I think you’re probably looking at this more narrowly than the others commenting here: we’re not just talking about ‘inside the congregation,’ we’re talking about inside bethel, for tours communications, as well as for construction related activities and volunteers, and other activities like convention planning.

Our opening poster wasn't asking about inside bethel or tours or other activities, just about congregation activities using whatsapp and any info from GB about the matter

 

3 hours ago, Leonard Match Valid said:

We have in the APP cleaning groups, field trips and meetings, in addition to all the contacts of our brothers.

Is there any information about the body of elders to stop using the APP in their country or migrate to another APP? Or still use the same one but with the account linked with Facebook?

Any information from the Governing Body?

 

I don't use Whatsapp anyway.  Glad that is not a requirement to volunteer at my conventions and assemblies.

 

[Brandon]

46 minutes ago, On the huh said:

Glad that is not a requirement to volunteer at my conventions and assemblies.

Are you gonna volunteer to press the play button?

[Shawnster]

From Wired Magazine:  https://www.wired.com/story/whatsapp-facebook-data-share-notification/

 

WhatsApp Has Shared Your Data With Facebook for Years, Actually

 

A pop-up notification has alerted the messaging app's users to a practice that's been in place since 2016.

 

On Monday, WhatsApp updated its terms of use and privacy policy, primarily to expand on its practices around how WhatsApp business users can store their communications. A pop-up has been notifying users that as of February 8, the app's privacy policy will change and they must accept the terms to keep using the app. As part of that privacy policy refresh, WhatsApp also removed a passage about opting out of sharing certain data with Facebook: "If you are an existing user, you can choose not to have your WhatsApp account information shared with Facebook to improve your Facebook ads and products experiences." 

 

Some media outlets and confused WhatsApp users understandably assumed that this meant WhatsApp had finally crossed a line, requiring data-sharing with no alternative. But in fact the company says that the privacy policy deletion simply reflects how WhatsApp has shared data with Facebook since 2016 for the vast majority of its now 2 billion-plus users.

[Brandon]

34 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

WhatsApp has shared data with Facebook since 2016... including account information like your phone number, logs of how long and how often you use WhatsApp, information about how you interact with other users, device identifiers, and other device details like IP address, operating system, browser details, battery health information, app version, mobile network, language and time zone. Transaction and payment data, cookies, and location information are also all fair game. 

oh good so it’s been happening 5 years already. Really warms your heart towards mark zuckerberg doesn’t it?

 

and then there’s the genocide in Myanmar that facebook played a ‘pivotal role’ in, according to the UN

- https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/3/13/un-facebook-had-a-role-in-rohingya-genocide

Edited January 12, 2021 by Brandon

[carlos]

What info does Whatsapp have about me? Since they cannot read my messages or keep track of who messages whom, the info they have access to (according to their privacy policy) is:

- my phone number (obviously)

- my location (but you can deny Whatsapp permission to use GPS)

- my list of contacts (only those who have Whatsapp).

 

They don't even know who I am. They only know my phone number and a list of phone numbers I presumably have some link with. Maybe some view that as a huge issue, but it doesn't concern me in the least. What does it mean to share those with Facebook? I don't use a Facebook account, so I can't see how they can use that info. And those who use it, they already have most of their contacts in Facebook anyway.

 

I may be overlooking something but I have the impression someone is exaggerating the significance of this policy change. Possibly someone interested in promoting some of WhatsApp's rival apps. Which (on the other hand) can't give you service unless they collect your phone number or Google account.

 

[Brandon]

5 minutes ago, carlos said:

I may be overlooking something

Not one thing. You’re overlooking many, many things about the company. But that’s your right. 

[Brandon]

19 minutes ago, carlos said:

What info does Whatsapp have about me?

The information to this question obviously depends on what information you, and all your contacts, granted to the app. Otherwise we can’t possibly answer your question here. 
 

Here’s a start though with how big datasets work: any of your WhatsApp contacts who also have facebook accounts—if there is a pattern (and there always are) of what those people do on Facebook, it will infer that you have commonalities with them. Facebook knows how much time you spend messaging each contact and ranks your most contacted to least contacted whatsapp friends. Each of these is collated with what they post on Instagram. 

19 minutes ago, carlos said:

They only know my phone number

No, they know your name, your wife’s name (and that she’s your wife). If she ever granted location permission to instragram or facebook or whatsapp--even if you didn’t--then they know where you live. If she doesn’t have a Facebook account but only Instagram, they know what you look like. 
 

based on her friends’ likes they know she’s a JW, her age (and so your age within an estimate). 
 

if you would like the full list of what whatsapp gleans from you, here's a chart - signal vs imessage vs whatsapp vs fb messenger:

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Brandon

[carlos]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Here’s a start though with how big datasets work: any of your WhatsApp contacts who also have facebook accounts—if there is a pattern (and there always are) of what those people do on Facebook, it will infer that you have commonalities with them. Facebook knows how much time you spend messaging each contact and ranks your most contacted to least contacted whatsapp friends. Each of these is collated with what they post on Instagram. 

Brandon, I don't think this is correct. I have read somewhere in their policy that they do not keep track of whom you message or call.

 

I'm interesting in seeing that chart. It seems you clicked Send by accident before inserting it.

[Brandon]

3 minutes ago, carlos said:

I have read somewhere in their policy that they do not keep track of whom you message or call

ok. they lied to you. i'm sorry you believed it

and btw even if you don't grant location, they still know which neighbourhood you're in based on IP-geolocation

Edited January 13, 2021 by Brandon

[Brandon]

6 minutes ago, carlos said:

you clicked Send by accident before inserting it

no i meant to. i was on my phone and couldn't insert the image, and my experience with this forum is that drafts do not sync to the cloud. my only option was to submit the post, so i could go to my laptop and quickly edit my comment to include the chart, which I was able to obtain the direct link to using my linux computer.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Brandon

[M.J.]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

The information to this question obviously depends on what information you, and all your contacts, granted to the app. Otherwise we can’t possibly answer your question here. 
 

Here’s a start though with how big datasets work: any of your WhatsApp contacts who also have facebook accounts—if there is a pattern (and there always are) of what those people do on Facebook, it will infer that you have commonalities with them. Facebook knows how much time you spend messaging each contact and ranks your most contacted to least contacted whatsapp friends. Each of these is collated with what they post on Instagram. 

No, they know your name, your wife’s name (and that she’s your wife). If she ever granted location permission to instragram or facebook or whatsapp--even if you didn’t--then they know where you live. If she doesn’t have a Facebook account but only Instagram, they know what you look like. 
 

based on her friends’ likes they know she’s a JW, her age (and so your age within an estimate). 
 

if you would like the full list of what whatsapp gleans from you, here's a chart - signal vs imessage vs whatsapp vs fb messenger:

 

How would WhatsApp know my purchases?

They are not in any way linked to my credit cards.

Ohhh, you mean through FB?

So if I don't have a FB account, then it sounds like I don't have as much for them to take.

[Brandon]

14 minutes ago, M.J. said:

So if I don't have a FB account

But do you have Instagram?