Whatsapp to share data with Facebook

[M.J.]

10 minutes ago, Brandon said:

But do you have Instagram?

Nope

[Amygdala]

How to stop WhatsApp from sharing your data with Facebook

 

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-stop-whatsapp-from-sharing-your-information-with-facebook/

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Lieblingskind said:

How to stop WhatsApp from sharing your data with Facebook

 

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-stop-whatsapp-from-sharing-your-information-with-facebook/

This is a 2016 article

[Amygdala]

It’s no longer valid?

[Amygdala]

Off-topic but some grocery, pharmacy stores and other stores use point systems here in Germany and have apps to download to increase points and discounts off purchases. The apps double or triple or even 20 times the points if you use them instead of paper coupons. Everything we buy on Amazon is also tracked and capitalized on. Online purchases are cheaper than in-store in most cases. Banks are required to list which stores we buy from on our bank accounts. 
 

Though Germans prefer exchanging cash at the stores, but now because of COVID many stores are encouraging POS at the cash registers, and changing long-held mentalities here. There’s only so much we can hide, so-to-speak, when we use modern technology.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Lieblingskind

[New World Explorer]

I hope that from all this "spying" on me, someone finally learns the truth, since most of my communication relates in one way or another to worshipping Jehovah.

I have zero concern about the whole "privacy stuff" 

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

My life is that boring, that even if they know who my wife is, I'm not sure why they would find it interesting. Especially compared to the 2 billion users they have. (Safety in numbers)

Old (Downunder) Tone

[Jay]

Imagine them getting your location during the GT

[Dages]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Imagine them getting your location during the GT

We will probably have instructions about this in due time.

[Jay]

1 minute ago, Dages said:

We will probably have instructions about this in due time.

Let's better be safe than sorry and prevention is always better than cure

[Dages]

31 minutes ago, Jay said:

Let's better be safe than sorry and prevention is always better than cure

And let's follow the Slave, not run ahead

[Shawnster]

What purchases are connected to whatsapp? 

[On the huh]

For those switching from whatsapp to another service - Is it just for theocratic purposes that you are using a different service, or for everything, including personal use?

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

I read this article by NY Times. It seems quite comprehensive. It might clear up some concerns, and answer some questions...

 

 

 

 

 

View in browser|nytimes.com

 

Technology

January 13, 2021

 

The truth about your WhatsApp data

 

Angie Wang

 

There was a backlash to WhatsApp in recent days after it posted what appear to be overhauled privacy policies. Let me try to clarify what happened.

 

Some people think the messaging app will now force those using it to hand over their personal data to Facebook, which owns WhatsApp.

 

That’s not quite right.

 

WhatsApp’s policies changed cosmetically and not in ways that give Facebook more data. The bottom line is that Facebook already collects a lot of information from what people do on WhatsApp.

 

The confusion was the result of Facebook’s bungled communications, mistrust of the company and America’s broken data-protection laws.

 

Here’s what changed with WhatsApp, and what didn’t:

 

Facebook bought WhatsApp in 2014, and since 2016, almost everyone using the messaging app has been (usually unknowingly) sharing information about their activity with Facebook.

 

Facebook knows the phone numbers being used, how often the app is opened, the resolution of the device screen, the location estimated from the internet connection and more, as my colleague Kashmir Hill explained five years ago.

 

Facebook uses this information to make sure WhatsApp works properly and to help a shoe company show you an ad on Facebook.

 

Facebook can’t peer at the content of texts or phone calls because WhatsApp communications are scrambled. Facebook also says that it doesn’t keep records on whom people are contacting in WhatsApp, and WhatsApp contacts aren’t shared with Facebook. (This Wired article is also useful.)

 

WhatsApp has a lot of positives. It’s easy to use, and communications in the app are secure. But yes, WhatsApp is Facebook, a company many don’t trust.

 

There are alternatives, including Signal and Telegram — both of which have gotten a surge of new users recently. The digital privacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation says Signal and WhatsApp are good choices for most people. The Wall Street Journal also ran through the pros and cons of several popular messaging apps.

 

The reason WhatsApp recently notified app users about revised privacy rules is that Facebook is trying to make WhatsApp a place to chat with an airline about a missed flight, browse for handbags and pay for stuff.

 

WhatsApp’s policies changed to reflect the possibility of commercial transactions involving the mingling of activity among Facebook apps — a handbag you browse in WhatsApp could pop up later in your Instagram app, for example.

 

Unfortunately, WhatsApp did a terrible job explaining what was new in its privacy policy. It took me and Kash, a data-privacy rock star, a good amount of reporting to understand.

 

I also want to touch on deeper reasons for the misunderstandings.

 

First, this is a hangover of Facebook’s history of being cavalier with our personal data and reckless with how it’s used by the company or its partners. It’s no wonder that people assumed Facebook changed WhatsApp policies in gory ways.

 

Second, people have come to understand that privacy policies are confusing, and we really don’t have power to make companies collect less data.

 

“This is the problem with the nature of privacy law in the United States,” Kash said. “As long as they tell you that they’re doing it in a policy that you probably don’t read, they can do whatever they want.”

 

That means digital services including WhatsApp give us an unappealing choice. Either we give up control over what happens to our personal information, or we don’t use the service. That’s it.

 

Clearing up more WhatsApp confusion

 

Another false belief floating around about WhatsApp — and again, this is WhatsApp’s fault, not yours — is that the app is just now removing an option for people to refuse to share their WhatsApp data with Facebook.

 

Not quite right.

 

Yes, when Facebook made major changes to WhatsApp privacy policies in 2016, there was a brief moment of choice. People could check a box to order Facebook not to use their data from WhatsApp for commercial purposes.

 

Facebook would still collect the data from WhatsApp users, as I explained above, but the company would not use the data to “improve its ads and product experiences,” like making friend recommendations.

 

But that option in WhatsApp existed for only 30 days in 2016. That was a lifetime ago in digital years, and approximately four million Facebook data scandals ago.

 

For anyone who started using WhatsApp since 2016 — and that’s many people — Facebook has been collecting a lot of information without an option to refuse.

 

“A lot of people didn’t know that until now,” Gennie Gebhart of the Electronic Frontier Foundation told me. And, she said, we are not to blame.

 

Understanding what happens with our digital data feels as if it requires advanced training in computer science and a law degree. And Facebook, a company with oodles of cash and a stock value of more than $700 billion, didn’t or couldn’t explain what was happening in a way that people could grasp.

 

Before we go …

 

We want to hear from you. Tell us what you think of this newsletter and what else you’d like us to explore. You can reach us at ontech@nytimes.com

 

 

 

 

 

The Truth About Your WhatsApp Data https://nyti.ms/38Dd88W

(You might need to be a subscriber)

Old (Downunder) Tone

 

 

 

 

[carlos]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:21 AM, Brandon said:

ok. they lied to you. i'm sorry you believed it
and btw even if you don't grant location, they still know which neighbourhood you're in based on IP-geolocation

Maybe they lied. Or maybe your source is not neutral. I don't have any special reason to believe the owners of Whatsapp, but after all, it seems a bit risky to lie in an official legal document about the kind of data they collect and the ones they don't. Who knows?

 

Thanks for updating your post with the chart. If you have a look to the kind of data WhatsApp stores it seems it's not that much, at least in my case. I don't make any purchases from WhatsApp so they don't have any financial info. I have never contacted their support and neither do I send them crash reports, so no info about that either. They know my phone number, otherwise they wouldn't be able to give me service. And they know the phone numbers of my contacts who have WhatsApp installed. They can collect my location while I use the app.

 

The chart says Signal doesn't store any data about you, but that is not true. They need to store at least your phone number, otherwise how could they tell you from anyone else? They also store your profile pic and email if you provide them. So it seems that chart was made to promote Signal.

 

Honestly, I don't care if WhatsApp or Telegram or Signal know my phone number or my location. I spend most of my time at home so my GPS data is not very interesting. They can link me to some people, so what? I don't see it such a huge problem as you do. On the other hand, you love Telegram, but Telegram's chats are not even encrypted, anyone with access to the server can read them. From that viewpoint, it seems WhatsApp is much safer. My point is not to attack Signal or Telegram, just that in the end everyone has a lot of data about you, no matter what you do.

 

 

[Brandon]

6 minutes ago, carlos said:

So it seems that chart was made to promote Signal.

No, you read the chart wrong. Notice it says “data linked to you”

 

Signal doesn’t have profiles for each human alive and doesn’t want to. Facebook does / is trying to. That’s why the headers say “linked to you.”

[.Ivan.]

We in Europe havent any changes. All the same.

[Brandon]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:53 AM, .Ivan. said:

We in Europe havent any changes. All the same.

That’s nice for Europe. Meanwhile in the rest of the world: 

Quote

It is of “great concern” that Indian users have not been given the choice to opt out of this data sharing with Facebook companies and they are being given less choice compared to the app’s European users, the Technology Ministry letter said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/20/india-asks-whatsapp-to-withdraw-discriminatory-privacy-policy

[Luisabola]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:07 PM, Luisabola said:

We have a group and congregation WhatsApp. And the service overseer started one for all the sisters in our hall for sorting out appointments for the co’s wife on ministry, which we kicked him out of after the week was up, and have kept as a chat between us sisters haha. 

Sorry just to clarify: we don’t have a congregation WhatsApp, at least I can’t find it so it must have been our old Cong that we had that in. Silly me. And our ‘sisters only’ chat has been deleted too. I honestly thought we’d kept it for just us sisters, but I think maybe a couple in the group mentioned keeping it on after our service overseer left, but alas it never came to fruition. But we still have our field ministry group chat. I’m getting everything wrong haha. 
 

I’ve had it mentioned in a couple other mum chats that I’m on that they want to migrate to Telegram now because of all this stuff with privacy concerns but not sure it’s happened yet. 
 

It’s all very confusing. 

[Brandon]

10 minutes ago, Luisabola said:

they want to migrate to Telegram

A bunch of us here on the forum have a big telegram group too. if you wanna join DM me

[New World Explorer]

Privacy changes delayed till 15th May 2021. 

[EccentricM]

On 1/13/2021 at 12:13 AM, Brandon said:

The information to this question obviously depends on what information you, and all your contacts, granted to the app. Otherwise we can’t possibly answer your question here. 
 

Here’s a start though with how big datasets work: any of your WhatsApp contacts who also have facebook accounts—if there is a pattern (and there always are) of what those people do on Facebook, it will infer that you have commonalities with them. Facebook knows how much time you spend messaging each contact and ranks your most contacted to least contacted whatsapp friends. Each of these is collated with what they post on Instagram. 

No, they know your name, your wife’s name (and that she’s your wife). If she ever granted location permission to instragram or facebook or whatsapp--even if you didn’t--then they know where you live. If she doesn’t have a Facebook account but only Instagram, they know what you look like. 
 

based on her friends’ likes they know she’s a JW, her age (and so your age within an estimate). 
 

if you would like the full list of what whatsapp gleans from you, here's a chart - signal vs imessage vs whatsapp vs fb messenger:

 

This is why I use browser extentions that block these things, it cuts off ads, links to other websites, tracking, etc. It means I can't log into certain websites using my FB account (that little option you sometimes see to quickly log into somewhere without having to make a seperate account) and certain things on the website itself are broken, but that's fine.

Edited January 25, 2021 by EccentricM

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

WhatsApp's new T&Cs didn't really change anything about sharing your data with Facebook, but you should still use Signal if you care about privacy

ISOBEL ASHER HAMILTON
JAN 27, 2021, 1:55 AM

“The move from WhatsApp to Signal is maybe not justified by the immediate incidence, but in broader terms it’s a good thing,”


Read more:
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/whatsapp-facebook-data-terms-conditions-privacy-signal-2021-1

TECH INSIDER

WhatsApp's new T&Cs didn't really change anything about sharing your data with Facebook, but you should still use Signal if you care about privacy

ISOBEL ASHER HAMILTON

JAN 27, 2021, 1:55 AM

[https://i]WhatsApp; Signal; Samantha Lee/Insider

WhatsApp caused a user stampede to rival encrypted messaging app Signal by sending users new terms and conditions.

Users were panicked by the notification WhatsApp sent out, thinking it meant the app would share more data with Facebook, its parent company.

In fact, WhatsApp was already sharing their data with Facebook – all the notification did was draw attention to it.

Visit Business Insider’s homepage for more stories.

On January 6, WhatsApp caused a user stampede.
The app sent users a notification asking them to sign off on updated terms and conditions, which stipulated it could share reams of metadata — including their phone numbers, locations, and contacts — with its parent company Facebook. If users did not consent, the notification said, they would lose access to WhatsApp.
The notification shocked users, at least some of whom use WhatsApp because the encrypted messaging app touts itself as privacy-focused. High-profile figures including Tesla’s CEO Elon Musk, the world’s richest man, recommended users switch to Signal, a much smaller rival encrypted messaging app.
People flocked to Signal in their droves. Signal amassed 7.5 million downloads in the week following WhatsApp’s notification â€” up 4,200% from the previous week.
WhatsApp soon went into damage-control mode, putting up a new FAQ about the policy change and delaying the deadline for users to agree to the new terms and conditions from February 8 until May 15.
As it happens, it doesn’t look like anything has really changed about how WhatsApp shares data with Facebook.
The updates to T&Cs were solely to facilitate business accounts on WhatsApp to link up with Facebook’s back-end analytics infrastructure, WhatsApp said. They do not change anything about the way an average user’s data gets passed back to Facebook, it said.
WhatsApp gave users 30 days to opt out of sharing some data with Facebook back in 2016 — Wired reported that this opt-out would still be honoured, and WhatsApp confirmed the report to Insider.
What WhatsApp accidentally did with its notification was to highlight to users exactly how much of their data it was already sending back to the Facebook mothership.

“I suspect people were alarmed by being reacquainted with what WhatsApp already share”

Alan Woodward, a cybersecurity expert at the University of Surrey, said WhatsApp made new T&Cs look a lot more scary to users by telling them they’d lose access if they didn’t consent.
“WhatsApp presented this as an ultimatum to users, which never goes down well: accept these new terms or stop using the service. They could perhaps have been a lot clearer up front about what the changes were, in which case many would have simply said ok,” Woodward said.
“I suspect people were alarmed by being reacquainted with what WhatsApp already share,” he said.
Professor Eerke Boiten of De Montfort University agreed that WhatsApp’s method of sending a notification with what appeared to be an ultimatum was a misstep.
“The main thing they got wrong was putting it into the users’ faces. They have alerted users to something that didn’t get massively worse […] in any significant sense, but was a looming problem all along,” Boiten told Insider.
WhatsApp’s shifting attitude to privacy has been a cause for concern among tech industry insiders and privacy advocates for a long time. The decision to increasingly link WhatsApp up with Facebook’s ad business is what drove its cofounder Brian Acton to leave the company — the same is reportedly true for cofounder Jan Koum.
Acton subsequently helped found the non-profit Signal Foundation, which backs Signal.
“The move from WhatsApp to Signal is maybe not justified by the immediate incidence, but in broader terms it’s a good thing,” Boiten added.

Read more:
Signal’s CEO reveals how it became a red-hot alternative to WhatsApp without venture capital or a business plan
You can see the difference between how much data WhatsApp collects compared to Signal using the Apple App Store’s new privacy information feature. While WhatsApp cannot read the contents of messages because they are encrypted, it is able to hoover up metadata — i.e., data about an account and its messaging. That includes information like your phone number, as well as who you’re messaging and when.

[https://i]Insider/Apple App StoreWhatsApp collects much more data than Signal.

“Metadata is almost as telling as the contents [of a message],” Boiten said. It’s hard to get a clear read on exactly what metadata WhatsApp is sending back to Facebook, Boiten said, as its privacy policy is written with lots of broad language, specifically by promising not to share “account information” but not specifying whether that includes metadata.
Woodward also pointed to WhatsApp’s collection of metadata. “The perverse thing is that WhatsApp encryption is based upon the same as used by Signal, but whilst [WhatsApp] keep the content if your messages confidential they do harvest some metadata, and knowing who talked to whom, when and for how can be valuable data in targeting advertising by identifying affinity group,” he said.
Signal’s focus on privacy does come with a tradeoff: If you make it impossible to gather things like metadata tracking down illegal activity on a messaging app becomes difficult. Signal employees are reportedly worried the company’s explosive growth could mean it attracts extremists, the Verge reported.
Their worries are not without precedent. Far-right users moved to rival encrypted messaging app Telegram after social media app Parler â€” which is famous for its popularity amongst far-right commentators and had a growth explosion following the US Capitol riots — was booted off its Amazon web servers.
But CEO Moxie Marlinspike thinks the benefits of a truly private messenger outweigh the potential abuses.
“I want us as an organisation to be really careful about doing things that make Signal less effective for those sort of bad actors if it would also make Signal less effective for the types of actors that we want to support and encourage […] Because I think that the latter have an outsized risk profile. There’s an asymmetry there, where it could end up affecting them more dramatically,” Marlinspike told the Verge.
While the new WhatsApp notification appears to be a PR blunder, Woodward doesn’t think WhatsApp is in deep trouble long-term.
“WhatsApp still has a critical mass of users and many are quite relaxed about the unwritten social contract that says you can use our service for free in return for us using your data to make a profit,” he said.

[https://edge]

Want to read a more in-depth view on the trends influencing Australian business and the global economy? BI / Research is designed to help executives and industry leaders understand the major challenges and opportunities for industry, technology, strategy and the economy in the future. Sign up for free at research.businessinsider.com.au

Old (Downunder) Tone

[carlos]

22 hours ago, ➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone said:

Users were panicked by the notification WhatsApp sent out, thinking it meant the app would share more data with Facebook, its parent company.

I guess that's the same people who post their whole life on Instagram.

[Chris7]

Many brothers I know are looking to move from WhatsApp to Signal.
 

So, I asked Our IT brother (elder) why? who answered me as follows :

“ It’s not the actual messages we send that’s the issue but your profile details they will now share with Facebook, and many hate Facebook (Facebook own WhatsApp and Instagram), to quote 

 

‘The information that you share with WhatsApp that will be shared (with Facebook) are your phone number, app logs, status messages, your profile name, your profile picture and your IP address.’ 
So even if you don’t have a facebook account they will have all the above info on you, and be able to sell that to advertisers. That is what many are objecting to. “