Are all brothers shy about talking to women?

[carlos]

1 hour ago, ➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone said:

This might be why the S-38 instructions for the assignments says the following:
"The assistant should be of the same sex or should be a family member." (paragraph 😎
Downunder this is the pattern for field service as well.

I don't see the connection, Tony. The assignments show a man studying with a man, or a woman studying with a woman. That's common sense. But how does that have to do with inviting a publisher of the opposite sex to the study?

 

I understand it may be unusual where you live but there is really nothing improper in it. Sisters Down Under do not invite the CO to their studies during his visit? Or do they never invite the elders so that the student becomes familiar with them? All of that is perfectly common here. During our last CO visit our CO could not come to a study with me, but his wife came instead. She told us how she learned the truth and some of their experiences and we had a great time together.

[Californiamama]

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Hmmm....does that mean I should stop texting you?

 

Doesn't apply to big sisters, brat. Over all I think people worry over a whole lot of stuff that just doesn't matter.  I bet a lot of acceptable decorum was set aside when bombs started falling in Ukraine or storms, earthquakes, floods and landslides started taking lives in other parts of the world.  I prefer to think everyone is just doing the best they can even if they end up acting like dorks. Part of why I love you. 🙂

[John C]

I’m in Miami and the Latin (Cuban mostly) culture here is strong. Unfortunately it also tends to be untrusting and suspicious of everyone. Go figure, sometimes we harbor old habits from when we were in the world so you can see why it is difficult for some to speak to the opposite sex. For me, not so much, I can talk to rocks.


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[BLEmom]

I’ve seen both sides in English and Spanish. For a while the Spanish congregation I was in was made up of people from a certain specific area of Mexico. They weren’t used to parties where dancing was allowed by singles. After some other Latin cultures entered the hall (puerto rican, Central American etc) then all the salsa and merengue started. They loosened up. Lol 

In English halls, a lot depends on the elder body. I’ve been in halls where they were more stuffy but am currently in one where they cut up. Bad puns and loving insults (um I mean teasing) abound. 😂

[carlos]

17 hours ago, John C said:

I’m in Miami and the Latin (Cuban mostly) culture here is strong. Unfortunately it also tends to be untrusting and suspicious of everyone. Go figure, sometimes we harbor old habits from when we were in the world so you can see why it is difficult for some to speak to the opposite sex. For me, not so much, I can talk to rocks.

Welcome to JWTalk, John!

[Amygdala]

I met a beautiful sister in Florida who told me her years earlier her marriage broke up because she fell for a young single pioneer brother and they had spent a lot of time in service together. She told me she fell for him, stating she felt lonely in her marriage (to an elder). I don’t know if she was disfellowshipped or reproved but at that time I spoke to her was divorced and single. I was also at another gathering (again in the US) in which a brother and a sister had been df‘d together because she was already married with a child (at that point young but now a teenager). After some time they we’re reinstated together and married each other. Same situation as they spent time in service together.
 

 In Canada I knew of a couple where the husband didn’t want his pioneer wife to spend lots of time with another pioneer, a single brother. I admired their respect for each other and what they considered limits. It’s not a matter of not trusting each other as it is going from platonic to emotional connection, even unnoticed.

 

You have cultures that are open with everyone, then there are some cultures (such as Middle eastern or asian)  that have huge social barriers between the sexes. Culture can definitely play a role, but as I noted from the experiences above, things can happen. There’s a good balance. I like how 1 Timothy 5:2 says to treat those of the opposite sex as either mothers, fathers or brothers/sisters.

 

Wasn‘t there a demonstration on video a few years ago at the RC about a sister repeatedly calling a married elder for advice at all times of the day, they met up outside for coffee alone, and that he noticed it was getting to crossing lines emotionally. So before anything happened he stopped. I forgot the setting exactly but the message was clear about spending lots of time with someone who is not your partner. But the occasional conversation of course is reasonable. The danger is spending too much time together. Or becoming an emotional crutch.

[Amygdala]

In the Young People Ask question series/book there is a section about can a boy or a girl just be friends?  Even though you might not have any romantic thoughts about a particular person, the other may well be thinking the opposite! Happened to me. 😚 
 

I became good friends in Canada with a single brother I met after an assembly, but I just viewed him literally as a brother. We spent lots of weekends hanging out with different friends or just going out, and he often on occasion visited my meetings where we sat beside each other. But I viewed him really as a brother. I thought he viewed it the same way…until I got his message one day which came way out of left field for me. Anyway, happy end of story he started dating another one of our friends shortly thereafter and I was even in their wedding party, but you just never know how the other will feel. Even if it’s not a big deal for you. So it’s understandable why some might be overly-cautious…but there’s a difference between overly-cautious vs. super scared. But the general advice is to be careful.

 

 

 

[John C]

I met a beautiful sister in Florida who told me her years earlier her marriage broke up because she fell for a young single pioneer brother and they had spent a lot of time in service together. She told me she fell for him, stating she felt lonely in her marriage (to an elder). I don’t know if she was disfellowshipped or reproved but at that time I spoke to her was divorced and single. I was also at another gathering (again in the US) in which a brother and a sister had been df‘d together because she was already married with a child (at that point young but now a teenager). After some time they we’re reinstated together and married each other. Same situation as they spent time in service together.
 
 In Canada I knew of a couple where the husband didn’t want his pioneer wife to spend lots of time with another pioneer, a single brother. I admired their respect for each other and what they considered limits. It’s not a matter of not trusting each other as it is going from platonic to emotional connection, even unnoticed.
 
You have cultures that are open with everyone, then there are some cultures (such as Middle eastern or asian)  that have huge social barriers between the sexes. Culture can definitely play a role, but as I noted from the experiences above, things can happen. There’s a good balance. I like how 1 Timothy 5:2 says to treat those of the opposite sex as either mothers, fathers or brothers/sisters.
 
Wasn‘t there a demonstration on video a few years ago at the RC about a sister repeatedly calling a married elder for advice at all times of the day, they met up outside for coffee alone, and that he noticed it was getting to crossing lines emotionally. So before anything happened he stopped. I forgot the setting exactly but the message was clear about spending lots of time with someone who is not your partner. But the occasional conversation of course is reasonable. The danger is spending too much time together. Or becoming an emotional crutch.

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[John C]

Excellent response!!! The question isn’t if we can have a casual conversation in the KH. But are we or do we isolate for said convo, that’s where the danger lies even if it’s under the guise of door to door work. Additionally, I served as an elder for over 10 years, unfortunately my circumstances (health) didn’t allow me to continue. When I gave up the privilege I was serving as the Presiding Overseer (Coordinator today), yeah it’s been a while LOL. As a body we all agreed you never ever ever counsel a sister alone, always with another elder. Also it would have to be extraordinary circumstances to not counsel them at the KH. The KH being figuratively “Holy Ground” (my words) it would also lend the counsel more weight or heft.


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[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

I don't see the connection, Tony...
I understand it may be unusual where you live...

The connection is in the km 1997 QB reference in S-38 paragraph 9.
It may be as you originally said. The inherited cultural stance from England may influence us DownUnder differently to where you are.
I'm sure the differing language and cultural congregations here all have a different slant on it.

Old (Downunder) Tone

[John C]

Totally agree, in the UK brothers can wear beards and t FADS has published in the WT here in the US that it’s ok. Yet local elders still have trouble approving it because it reminds some of the hippie movement


John Cavaliere
04/15/1973

[Ishaya]

I think a good way to summarise this will be, to be free with everyone in the congregation but to not be too close to the opposite sex.

A male and a female can hardly just be close friends, its almost not possible.emotions always get involved along the way.

A single sister should not want to always be close to a single or married brother, its not safe and its not appropriate.

A single sister should not have a brother as her best or closest friend.

If a sister needs close friendship,its best to do that with a fellow sister and not with even the elders.

 

If a sister has a problem that requires close monitoring, its best two elders do the follow up instead of just a one elder.we do not want to give an opportunity for sin.

I think a good way to summarise this will be, to be free with everyone in the congregation but to not be too close to the opposite sex.

A male and a female can hardly just be close friends, its almost not possible.emotions always get involved along the way.

A single sister should not want to always be close to a single or married brother, its not safe and its not appropriate.

A single sister should not have a brother as her best or closest friend.

If a sister needs close friendship,its best to do that with a fellow sister and not with even the elders.

 

[Ishaya]

I remember when I was pioneering in the university, I have a pioneer sister we use to work together often till evening so as to meet up with the requirement.I  noticed she was getting attached to me but I wasn't feeling the same and I got worried for her.I just couldn't get myself to reciprocate the feeling.

I think the important lesson is to not put yourself in that kind of position where you cannot or should not reciprocate a feeling  and end up hurting someone.

This is what always happen when a sister and a brother just want to be close friends.

[BLEmom]

3 hours ago, Ishaya said:

 

I will appreciate some help with all that repetition, I was having problem with the messenger.

I’ve had that happen a few times too. Sometimes the submit button doesn’t change. I’ve learned that after two tries, to refresh the page because usually it has gone through. 

[Hotteok]

I can approach girls and sisters very friendly ( I have a sister in my family and some female relatives) but realized I ended up hurting some of them.

I have never had any non-jw female friends.. not even associates! I'm dead to the world. 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by VisualizeUrParadise

[Eejay]

On 3/23/2022 at 8:35 AM, Michelle81 said:

Are all brothers shy about talking to women?  It seems that way before and after meetings.

That must be a personal impression you have gleaned of some where you are. It is not the case where I am at all, and not in my experience in France (they all kiss in greeting there pre-Covid of course) ☺️, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, or even in New Jersey USA. I have visited  Italian, Greek, Portuguese, Mauritian, and Lingala (Congo) congregations and found very little shyness. Colombians are very expressive, Brazilians a little less so, but not really what you would call "shy". Perhaps among some there is a little formality when it comes to older women, particularly Carribean where "Auntiy" is a common respectful address for older sisters.

However, there are quite marked differences in attitude person to person, regardless of being brothers or sisters. There are definitely some who are a little "shy" but I haven't found it gender specific.

 

There is the added factor of a productive ministry. It is difficult to come out as "shy" if you are greeting new ones all the time.

 

Lets make it our aim to overcome any reticence toward warmly greeting each other, especially on Friday April 15 2022 as we make it a "Memorial to Remember" for eveyone in attendance!

[DarinS]

No

Michelle - i have experienced the opposite ( sorry you haven’t seen if - Especially since the last 2 years were under Covid

Most brothers (single and married) ….whom I know —- freely talk to sisters and Vice-versa

 

we had 30-40 marriages during Covid and 10-20 more are planned this year in our town and close surrounding area

 

I have never felt shy — throughout many congregations — in many areas of the US and Caribbean

 

whether it was during single time or married time of my life

 

My grown kids 19 & 21 and my 6-10 spiritual children seem to have no issues in communicating

 

in our hall (South Florida) ..about 150+publishers - the only ones who act shy and don’t talk to everyone are some teenagers - Male and female

 

our hall is always very interactive regardless of age or background - sex - marital state…..

 

the only sisters that a few brothers are ‘Leary’ of are the ‘drama queens’ or the ones who talk to much (borderline gossipy/chatty)

I DO AGREE with the brother from Miami - some are conscious down there - because the area has a rep of many “Players”

 

today I was @ LDC  in FT LAUDERDALE with 40+ mature friends - teens to middle age - to older folks and all seemed very comfortable chatting quite a lot

 

—I have heard of a few halls having issues with cliques and lacking hospitality

sometimes a simple reminder of articles on Widening out ..or a talk on Hospitality helps the congregation practice these traits in a mature and Christian manner-

if you see a trend in your hall ask an Elder you are comfortable with - what he feels and sees

 

if the Love (agape) is missing - often times it has to do with a poor example….Shepherds need reminders also

 

many brothers will attend Elder school this coming year - maybe you will see the marked improvement after their reminders……

 

this is a Critical Time to bolster our friendships - not turn inward or selective - rather outward and broaden and strengthen them

[Cushi]

I talk to everyone at the hall but try not to spend an extended amount of time talking to the sisters like I do some brothers because I don’t want to give the impression that I’m interested in them because I have no plans of getting married in this system of things.

Edited April 18, 2022 by *Jack*

[Girl81]

3 hours ago, *Jack* said:

I talk to everyone at the hall but try not to spend an extended amount of time talking to the sisters like I do some brothers because I don’t want to give the impression that I’m interested in them because I have no plans of getting married in this system of things.

Can't you be close friends with a sister just like you could with a brother?  I have some lots of male friends that I am not interested in marrying at all; still I deeply value the friendships I have with them.  I find it sad to disregard a possible friendship based on someone's sex.

[Hope]

19 minutes ago, Michelle81 said:

Can't you be close friends with a sister just like you could with a brother?  I have some lots of male friends that I am not interested in marrying at all; still I deeply value the friendships I have with them.  I find it sad to disregard a possible friendship based on someone's sex.

Did you ever see "When Harry Met Sally"? 😃🙃

 

https://youtu.be/iEV_pQIf3Og

[Michał]

5 hours ago, Michelle81 said:

Can't you be close friends with a sister just like you could with a brother?  I have some lots of male friends that I am not interested in marrying at all; still I deeply value the friendships I have with them.  I find it sad to disregard a possible friendship based on someone's sex.

Well, it wasn’t problem for Jesus (Mary, Martha) but for an imperfect man friendship with a sister similar age to him may be very tricky. 

[Amygdala]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:55 AM, VisualizeUrParadise said:

I can approach girls and sisters very friendly ( I have a sister in my family and some female relatives) but realized I ended up hurting some of them.

I have seen this many-o many times over the years. I just think brothers are trying to be careful, because let’s face it, there are more single sisters than single brothers statistically speaking. So for a single sister who might be pining for marriage, any extraordinary display of interest or attention from a single brother (to her liking) is bound to cause feelings. Then the brother gets the blame for causing such affections, OTOH he might also get blamed for being distant and inattentive. He can’t win either way, so decides instead of causing unintended hurt feelings he plays it safe….until he decides a sister might be the one worth getting to know and shows interest….so sadly it’s not so black and white as simply being “friends”.
 

 

[Amygdala]

I think the worst thing a single brother wants to be known for as being a player (as I’ve heard a few sisters chime in over the years). Especially if he’s reaching out or already has congregation responsibilities…

[Hotteok]

2 hours ago, Woanders said:

I have seen this many-o many times over the years. I just think brothers are trying to be careful, because let’s face it, there are more single sisters than single brothers statistically speaking. So for a single sister who might be pining for marriage, any extraordinary display of interest or attention from a single brother (to her liking) is bound to cause feelings. Then the brother gets the blame for causing such affections, OTOH he might also get blamed for being distant and inattentive. He can’t win either way, so decides instead of causing unintended hurt feelings he plays it safe….until he decides a sister might be the one worth getting to know and shows interest….so sadly it’s not so black and white as simply being “friends”.
 

 

More girls than boys in Korea.. Non-JW wise, so boys tend to think any attention from girls is a sign of "let's go on a date." 

Girls are proud because of this (for decades, parents have been preferring boy babies) and unlike JW males, world males are always willing to give everything they have for any girl that shows interest for him.. It must be a big challenge for young sisters. I think it's best, like I did, to cut all ties with worldly people of the opposite sex. (impossible if you go to a big company that gives you lots of money.. or a student) 

Edited April 19, 2022 by VisualizeUrParadise

[Cushi]

12 hours ago, Michelle81 said:

Can't you be close friends with a sister just like you could with a brother?  I have some lots of male friends that I am not interested in marrying at all; still I deeply value the friendships I have with them.  I find it sad to disregard a possible friendship based on someone's sex.

I’ve personally never had female friends unless I had ulterior motives, If you know what I mean. But I was in the world then. That’s the thing, a lot of women actually think they’re their male friends are just “friends”. They’re not. 99.99 percent of them are waiting for an opportunity. If women who had these friends expressed a sexual interest in their friends, the guys would see it as a golden opportunity, and not something that could potentially ruin the friendship. Take it from a guy.

 

Just try to be cautious. It’s not wise to spend much time alone with members of the opposite sex. I personally don’t let sisters in my house by themselves for an extended period of time unless they are much older than me and I’ve never had a sister have me over for an extended period of time unless she was much older or I was real close to the family and not just her.

 

I know it can sound too cautious but when I was in the world, my worldly best friend told me that he met a sister who witnessed to him and he pretended like he was interested. His real motive was to get her alone and try to have sex with her. He said he was so disappointed that every time she showed up to witness to him she brought a brother with her. I’ve got so frustrated that he gave up.

 

I know that example is of a worldly person but it can happen in the truth too. I’ve personally known both sisters and brothers who ended up committing Immorality with another fellow worshiper when left alone. We even had a video with an elder who was spending too much time associating with a sister and then she ended up showing her interest in him by placing her hand on his, even though he was married. Can someone please post a link