Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Hotteok]

At least before the world collapses due to global warming.

If we can trust what scientists say about the remaining time of Earth..

It'd be a clue as to the end of the world.. though of course not 100% precise.  

[Doak]

On 08/07/2022 at 03:32, Hinata said:

Então, uma pergunta que você deve se fazer agora é: você está preparado se o fim chegará em 10, 20 ou 50 anos?

 

Thanks for your comment, brother. However, I think 50 years is too exaggerated, as there is the issue of the "generation that will not pass". 20 years is already a lot, but it is possible.

[Doak]

3 hours ago, VisualizeUrParadise said:

Pelo menos antes que o mundo entre em colapso devido ao aquecimento global.

Se pudermos confiar no que os cientistas dizem sobre o tempo restante da Terra...

Seria uma pista sobre o fim do mundo... embora, claro, não seja 100% preciso.  

And what is the remaining time that scientists talk about? I haven't been following this issue closely...

[Hinata]

3 hours ago, Doak said:

Thanks for your comment, brother. However, I think 50 years is too exaggerated, as there is the issue of the "generation that will not pass". 20 years is already a lot, but it is possible.

 

Of course, Brother Daniel. I’m sure you’ll understand the point of my post was not that the end will come 50 years later. In fact, it was the opposite of that. That would be very really awful.

 

I also remember myself, when I wanted to see Armageddon as soon as possible when I was younger. I remember waking up from the bed, and saying “Did the Great Tribulation happen already?” every day. And I’m certain I’m not alone who experienced something like that here.

 

Is it wrong to keep hoping the end will come like that? Certainly not. Even Jesus’ disciples hoped for same thing. They also asked Jesus, “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6; Luke 19:11) Little did they know the Kingdom was not going to be established until 2000 years later in year 1914. But now, think this: If we were to go back in time, and tell them Jehovah’s Kingdom won’t appear for 2000 years, what do you think they’ll say? Would they tell us to go away, thinking that we’re apostates? Or would they also say “2000 years is too exaggerated” too, like you?

 

Of course, we don’t know. But it’s just my humble little imagination, just maybe, Peter may have answered like this, quoting what Jesus told him, near the Sea of Tiberias: “Jesus said to him[Peter]: ‘If it is my will for him[John] to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? You continue following me.’”—John 21:22.

 

And that is the important point. If it is Jehovah’s will for the end to come in year 2030 or any other futuristic year, why should that concern us? — We will continue participate in preaching work and closely follow Jehovah’s organisation, until that unknown time comes.

 

Jesus said: “Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is. ... What I say to you I say to all, Keep on the watch.” (Mark 13:33, 37) It is so urgent that we need to heed to this words right now. We do not know when that time will be. Let’s “keep on the watch” together.
 

[Shawnster]

6 hours ago, Doak said:

Thanks for your comment, brother. However, I think 50 years is too exaggerated, as there is the issue of the "generation that will not pass". 20 years is already a lot, but it is possible.

It may be exaggerated, but the exaggeration is used to illustrate the brother's point.  Are we prepared to serve Jehovah faithfully even if Armageddon never comes in our lifetime or will we give up if Armageddon does not arrive on our timetable? 

 

See, any answer we give to the question "how close do you think Armageddon is?" is, in a sense, us putting a timetable on the event.  Further, we have had brothers and sisters become quite passionate in their insistence that "this system simply can't last 3 more years" but they said those words 9 or 12 or 21 years ago. 

 

As long as we are not spending the time left in pursuit of fleshly or worldly desires, as long as we continue to seek the Kingdom first, then it doesn't matter when we think Armageddon will come. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Shawnster

[jrnievas]

I always remind myself that I will always serve Jehovah until . . .

 

the end of my life, or, the end of this wicked system. (Matthew 24:14)

 

I want to be a kind of witness who depends his faithfulness, not on what he will gain, but what will Jehovah gain.

[Shawnster]

54 minutes ago, jrnievas said:

I always remind myself that I will always serve Jehovah until . . .

 

the end of my life, or, the end of this wicked system. (Matthew 24:14)

 

I know you don't mean it like this, but your thought says that you "will always serve Jehovah until... the end of this wicked system." If course, that's not true because you will continue to serve Jehovah past the end of this wicked system and into eternity. 

 

So, there really is no "until" because, even if you happen to fall asleep in death, that will just be a temporary pause and not an end to your faithful service. 

[Michelle112]

For me, I figure not having a date means Jehovah will see that I want to serve Him, whenever that day comes. I want Him to find me doing the best I can for Him - when He does His surprise visit. If I die beforehand,I want to be faithful to my last breath and be one of His friends, sleeping. The way this world is now and how quickly it changes, we could be in the new system within a week. When I feel discouraged,my dear brother - I like to revisit prophecy. It's a good reminder. Oh, I beg Jehovah to quiet my mind and trust Him 100% too. How you're feeling, is quite common, especially in these real, sometimes unbearable last last days. Agape =).

 

[Hotteok]

The recent James Webb telescope once again reminds me how small I am in this universe, compared to Jehovah or even to angels.. 

that much more makes me humble and just wait and obey Jehovah.. though it's not easy. 

[EccentricM]

Brother, it is not about 'when' the end is coming.. even if it were 1000 years away, it matters not.

 

For a moment, put yourself in the shoes of the 1st Century Christians... how far away were they from the end? They never saw it, but regardless, they focused on their faith, and were "in expectation"... this is not to say they were obsessing over a date or time, or how long it would be, but they were wary of their "heart conditions", their dedication to Christ, and his teachings, and worship of the Father Jehovah. Because they knew they would be judged "in the end".

 

 

Remember the Proverb "delayed expectation makes the heart sick".

 

This is what you (and many) are experiencing, because your focus has become "a means to an end". That "if I preach just a little longer, if I keep attending meetings... Armageddon will come tomorrow! And I won't have to wait any longer!".

 

But expecting the 'end' to come tomorrow as a "basis" for "endurance" is not a good path.

 

We all want the New Kingdom to come to this Earth, but, when it does, it will be for the righteous, those who are dedicated into putting on the new personality. Being a Christian is not merely defined by preaching the Gospel. It's a big part of it, but it's "living it", in your heart, in the way you treat people, the love you share, and feel. It's a way of life.

 

Therefore, in your life as a Christian, let it be for the glory of our God and Father, and of his Son.

 

"Therefore, whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory " - 1 Corinthians 10:31

 

 

We will be judged in the end, whether it be at the coming of Christ, or in the resurrection, for the things we have done and will do. Thus, the message is this, "be baptised and believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" (Acts 2:38, Acts 16:31).

 

 

It's following his command, his teaching... not waiting on a date. That will come of its own accord, in the meantime, simply "be".

 

There is no train to miss. Our victory and relief is not ensured by being alive during the time of his arrival, but by "being alive in spirit", living in accordance to Jehovah's will. Relax, and know our Lord Jesus comes when he comes, be it now, in 20 years, or 100 years. The end will come, we don't know when, but it's the promise of God which is our true endurance, that all who obey him and his Son, will inherit everlasting life, in one way or another.

 

 

Live for God, because it is the "right thing to do", not because of expectation of the imminent end, or you will burn out quickly, it's a poor "foundation", which the "fires" of this world will burn to the ground, but the true foundation, our hope in Christ, our life of righteousness, and hope in the resurrection, and the Kingdom that will come, be it the next day from now, or far in the future, that is the "true foundation", which endures fire.

 

"For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.+ 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will be shown for what it is,* for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire,+ and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built". - 1 Corinthians 3:11-13

 

"Who of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his life span? 26 If, therefore, you cannot do such a small thing, why be anxious about the remaining things?+ 27 Consider how the lilies grow: They neither toil nor spin; but I tell you that not even Solʹo·mon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these.+ 28 Now if this is how God clothes the vegetation in the field that today exists and tomorrow is cast into an oven, how much more will he clothe you, you with little faith! 29 So stop seeking what you will eat and what you will drink, and stop being in anxious suspense;+ 30 for all these are the things the nations of the world are eagerly pursuing, but your Father knows you need these things.+ 31 Instead, keep seeking his Kingdom, and these things will be added to you" - Luke 12:25-31

 

"You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet... Concerning that day and hour nobody knows,+ neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father". - Matthew 24:6, 36

 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by EccentricM

[musing_musician]

On 6/27/2022 at 4:40 PM, Doak said:

Hello to all of you, dear brothers!

 

I'm a young, baptized, newly married brother serving in a congregation in Portugal. Lately I've been feeling a little down, I'm not going to lie. I have known the truth since I was born, and I have always heard that there will be a Great Tribulation and an Armageddon. As I got a little older, I began to hear about the announcement of peace and security that we are all waiting for. The problem is that more than 20 years have passed. And I know that before I was born the brothers already heard about it. I've made so many changes in my life for the end of the system and it seems like it never comes again...

 

I sometimes hear speeches from the Governing Body (such as Brother Anthony Morris's final speech for the second part of the 2021 Annual Meeting, February 2022 Broadcasting) or read articles in the Watchtower that make me think it won't last longer. than 5 years. Other times, through the news I see, conversations with some brothers or even the organization's projects, I keep thinking that the end is not so close after all.

 

The Governing Body says the end is "imminent". When someone tells me something is imminent, or about to occur, I usually think it will be in a few days or weeks. In the case of the end, of course I don't think of days or weeks, but the word "imminent" makes me think of 2 or 3 years. Imminent is associated with urgency and it doesn't seem to me that more than 5 years is that imminent for a human being. For humans like us, imminent is something brief that we are about to witness. How long ago did we start hearing the expression "the Last of "the Last Days""?

 

What if the conflict with the King of the North lasts for a few years (as Jens Stoltenberg, NATO Secretary General, said)? To announce peace and security, the world needs to be at least at peace, and I don't think peace with Russia will be achieved that quickly. I see the war in Ukraine as the tip of the iceberg, which will continue around the world until it reaches the confrontation "King of the North vs King of the South". The announcement of peace and security may not come until a few years from now. And what about the Great Tribulation? It may take even longer to arrive. We still have the prophecy of the "generation that will not pass away", but we have the example of Brother Mark Sanderson who was born in 1965 and is currently 57 years old. For me, 57 is still a relatively young age. It takes 13 years to reach the age of 70 and normally no one dies of old age at 70. Do you understand what I mean? In my former congregation, for example, there was also a brother who took the emblems and who must have been around 40 years old. There are many anointed ones who are still somewhat far from old age.

 

I'm getting more and more fed up with this system and it never seems to end. Even the Covid-19 pandemic caused me hope, but it's been 2 and a half years of pandemic and nothing has happened. The war with the King of the North also started in February and we are already entering July. Another convention is coming and the question remains: how many more conventions will there be until the end of the system? Like, how many more conventions does the Governing Body have prepared for us to attend (when they are prepared 5 years in advance)? And regarding the Memorial, how many Memorials are we going to attend until the Great Tribulation comes?

 

We also have the project of the series "The Good News According to Jesus" that started recording on May 20th of this year. If this series can be used in the new world to teach the resurrected about the Bible, then Jehovah will want the series to be released before the system ends, right? Since the series will last about 1000 hours, how many years will it take to finish recording, editing, translating, etc? And what about the new study book "Enjoy Life Forever!"? We will have a worldwide preaching campaign in September to offer Bible studies with this publication, do you think Jehovah would allow the end to come before anyone interested has time to study it and make progress? And the return to face-to-face meetings? Wouldn't it make sense for Jehovah to give us some reasonable time to encourage each other after 2 years away from each other? And as for preaching, do you think the end will come without us getting back to full throttle (not to mention the judgment message)?

 

Please brothers, tell me your opinions regarding everything I said, regarding current events and how long you think the end is. I need help from a brother who is up to date and who is an active servant of Jehovah.

 

 

(This text was originally written in Portuguese from Portugal, I apologize for any errors in the English translation)

I remember reading a comment on this website that said something along the lines of "Many pray to Jehovah begging him to please bring the end already and rescue us from this awful world... but at the same time many are praying to Jehovah to please hold off a little longer, because their son/daughter/mother/father/ a loved one haven't accepted the truth yet.

That helped me to exercise a little more patience, as difficult as it is sometimes. 

[Michael]

22 hours ago, musing_musician said:

I remember reading a comment on this website that said something along the lines of "Many pray to Jehovah begging him to please bring the end already and rescue us from this awful world... but at the same time many are praying to Jehovah to please hold off a little longer, because their son/daughter/mother/father/ a loved one haven't accepted the truth yet.

That helped me to exercise a little more patience, as difficult as it is sometimes. 

That’s a beautiful way to look at it. I personally don’t have the same patience. I have in the past hoped the system would go on longer in hopes that some of my family would see the light and turn to Jehovah. At some point in the last year, I have abandoned that thought process, while I continue to pray for them and where possible, preach to them, I have let them go so to speak. When the time comes, I’m content walking away from them. If they want to follow, so be it, and if Jehovah accepts that, even better. My heart is prepared to let them go today. I used to hope for no more wars too but now I fully understand that Jesus said, these must take place before the end will come. While I don’t support wars nor have good feelings about violence, I’m also relieved when they come up knowing that it’s prophecy that needs to be fulfilled and means it’s one step closer to the end. 
 

I love my family but I’m ready to continue on through the end without them. I pray for the success of the Kingdom first. I pray for family secondary. I never give up hope but don’t hold my breath either. I’m good to go and ready to leave everything and everyone not on Jehovah’s side behind. Bring it on. I don’t wish anyone to miss out on forever but prophesies say that the vast majority will. Most of my family have made it very clear that they are on the side of Babylon the Great and that we are going to burn in hell for eternity because we worship Jehovah and not their pagan trinity. As my heart is fixed on the truth, theirs is fixed on supporting our governments and our wars, pagan celebrations and doctrines. Truly the mark of the beast.
 

Fortunately, Jehovah is much more patient than I am. His patience is perfect. Mine is not. 

[Dages]

23 hours ago, musing_musician said:

I remember reading a comment on this website that said something along the lines of "Many pray to Jehovah begging him to please bring the end already and rescue us from this awful world... but at the same time many are praying to Jehovah to please hold off a little longer, because their son/daughter/mother/father/ a loved one haven't accepted the truth yet.

That helped me to exercise a little more patience, as difficult as it is sometimes. 

That was my comment I think. And it's from a talk I've heard... I don't remember when or where...

Quote

I love my family but I’m ready to continue on through the end without them. 

Same... That's sad but that's the truth... Jehovah comes first.

[50gumbys]

I remember when the Society announced that "this generation" didn't refer to those from the time of 1914 and having understanding.

I was baptised in 1986 and was becoming uncomfortable using this tact when witnessing to people. So I just didn't.

I also remember an elder have THE worst time getting his head around the new information.

And from what I heard, there were ones who left because of this new understanding.

 

Could that example apply with us today?

[musing_musician]

7 hours ago, Dages said:

That was my comment I think. And it's from a talk I've heard... I don't remember when or where...

 

I believe it was! I'm very fortunate that most of my family is in the truth and I'm the last of my siblings to get baptized. My mom has told me that she always used to ask Jehovah for him to please reach my heart and help me to make those changes in my life before the end comes. Your comment really resonated with me. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by musing_musician

[Michelle112]

I still pray for my worldly family but in the end, Jah always does what's right. It's still hard to have a "close" relationship with these ones but I try to still show love and ,where I can( perhaps just a miniscule amount), I mention Jah somehow. It's up to Jah. 😃

[Miss Bea]

 Brother, you sort of sound like me, (dare I say, over a half a century ago) predominant gear, “over-drive”.

I’ve sort of settled down a bit. Days run into months, and months…

We have no idea, but, this we do know. When we look back, sitting by a lake, or ocean, explaining what we all went through to a friend, or a bible study, this we will say, “Jehovah had perfect timing”. And, smile. 

[Dages]

59 minutes ago, Miss Bea said:

We have no idea, but, this we do know. When we look back, sitting by a lake, or ocean, explaining what we all went through to a friend, or a bible study, this we will say, “Jehovah had perfect timing”. And, smile. 

Exactly ❤️

[nicolette]

Not that I need to add any more further “ gems” but when I feel as you do… I go back and meditate on this article https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2021/Imitate-Jehovahs-Endurance/

 

WE all  want the 

Sanctification of Jehovahs name and  Vindication of his sovereignty to come true, but we are on his timeline. I think of the day I’ll say “ I have fought the fine fight… I’ve run the race to the finish…. I have observed the Faith🌸🙏🏾2Timothy 4:7. Thank You Jehovah!  Hold on my Brother🌺

[Adrianka]

On 6/28/2022 at 8:00 AM, carlos said:

Daniel, we alI understand your feelings. We all get discouraged sometimes. But the truth is that no human knows when the end will come. The Governing Body does not know any better than us. They just study Bible prophecies and see how they are being fulfilled by world events, the same as we all do. So whether they use the word "imminent" or "the last of the last days", or whether they have conventions and Memorials planned for several years, that's irrelevant. It doesn't mean anything. It's not a clue as to the time of Armageddon. They will keep planning conventions and buildings and projects and one day the end will come and some of those projects will not take place, or will take place in the new world.

 

Then why do they keep saying it's imminent? Because that's their job. Not to give us clues for the date of Armageddon, but to remind us to keep awake and serve with a sense of urgency. Christians need a sense of urgency in order to be spiritually strong, if we lose that sense of urgency we quickly become discouraged, lose our zeal and let other things take priority in our life. Whether the end is coming next week or it will take some years yet, we need to be busy in spiritual activities, that's the only way to conquer the world.

 

But isn't that cheating, to tell us the end is imminent when they really don't know how far it is? No, it's not. First, because world conditions are changing very quickly and the end feels very close. And secondly, because the "end" is not necessarily Armageddon. I could have an accident this afternoon, or a heart attack, or be a victim of violence, and die. Here I am speaking of weeks or months or years, when actually I only have a few hours left to serve Jehovah to the best of my ability. So the wise approach is to keep planning and doing our best for Jehovah with a sense of urgency and soon the end will come and all promises will become a reality.

Love this. Well said. 
I also like to remember that we’re told to keep in expectation of it. Like those 10 virgins, keep that oil lit. That’s our only job. The world and bad things in it bring us down, so it’s actually a good thing to keep in expectation. It helps strengthen us. Gives us hope…something to look forward to. I remember that not even Jesus knows the end, only Jehovah. If you focus on all of the specifics you mentioned you will always be second guessing yourself. We cannot predict the future; we only know the end is near because of world events predicted in the Bible. So live your life, read your bible, stay firm and don’t focus on a date in your mind…you’ll only be disappointed. My two cents. But thank you for sharing your thoughts. You’re not alone. I want things to get better, too. It helps when people respond kindly, like this brother above. 

[Bruceq]

I love knowing the end is imminent. I was born a Witness in 1963 my parents were Witnesses since they were teens in 1939 and my grandparents on both sides of my family were also in the truth. I love it when my wife had a baby and the doctor says the birth is imminent even though he does not know the exact day or hour. The doctor also has a due date based on math and many times the baby will come past the due date. But just because the time is past a due date or just because the doctor has been saying for some time the birth is imminent does not make me disappointed or discouraged or believe the baby is not actually going to be born although the experts tell me his birth is imminent. Find joy in the time you have left before the birth of what we are expecting. For when it comes then you will have exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

[Leonard Match Valid]

I would like to share the note in the Bible of Matthew 24:15 that the Slave placed:

Matthew 24:15
the disgusting thing that causes desolation: Daniel foretold that “disgusting thing(s)” would be associated with desolation. (Da 9:27; 11:31; 12:11) Jesus here indicates that “the disgusting thing that causes desolation” had not yet appeared; it was to come in the future. And 33 years after Jesus’ death, Christians witnessed the initial fulfillment of this prophecy when they did catch sight of a disgusting thing standing in a holy place. The parallel account at Lu 21:20 reads: “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.” In 66 C.E., pagan Roman armies surrounded “the holy city,” Jerusalem, a place that the Jews viewed as holy and that was the center of the Jewish revolt against Rome. (Mt 4:5; 27:53) Discerning Christians, who recognized that the Roman army with its idolatrous banners was “the disgusting thing,” took it as the final signal to “begin fleeing to the mountains.” (Mt 24:15, 16; Lu 19:43, 44; 21:20-22) After the Christians fled, the Romans desolated both the city and the nation. Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70 C.E., and the last Jewish stronghold, Masada, fell to the Romans in 73 C.E. (Compare Da 9:25-27.) The detailed initial fulfillment of this prophecy provides a solid basis for trusting that the greater fulfillment will also take place, culminating with Jesus’ “coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Mt 24:30) Many ignore Jesus’ statement that Daniel’s prophecy would be fulfilled after Jesus’ day, and they follow Jewish tradition in applying Daniel’s prophecy to an event in 168 B.C.E. when Syrian King Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) profaned Jehovah’s temple in Jerusalem. Antiochus attempted to stamp out the worship of Jehovah, even building an altar over the great altar of Jehovah and sacrificing pigs as an offering to the pagan god Zeus of Olympus. (See study note on Joh 10:22.) The apocryphal book of 1 Maccabees (1:54) uses an expression similar to the one found in the book of Daniel (associating disgusting things with desolation) and applies it to the event in 168 B.C.E. However, Jewish tradition and the account in 1 Maccabees are human interpretations, not inspired revelations. Certainly, Antiochus provoked feelings of disgust by desecrating the temple, but his attack did not result in the desolation of Jerusalem, the temple, or the Jewish nation."

Notice the phrase that many use human interpretation to talk about a time

Maybe the Bible itself will answer when it comes and maybe we're not seeing it...... yet

[Shawnster]

6 minutes ago, Leonard Match Valid said:

Notice the phrase that many use human interpretation to talk about a time

Maybe the Bible itself will answer when it comes and maybe we're not seeing it...... yet

I don't understand what you are saying. Can you explain it to me like I am 5?

[Leonard Match Valid]

5 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Eu não entendo o que você está dizendo. Você pode me explicar como se eu tivesse 5 anos?

lol Shawn is the translation here....

in fact the Bible itself as a sacred secret reveals the things that will come to pass, of course the day is in Jehovah's mind but we can think in terms of dates that theoretically he revealed as the weeks of years and the future time of the "day of the day". Lord" that John saw but who knows the date is closed in the Bible today?

only 2 cents

[jps]

at least 2 more years

 

todays announcements was "Memorial
observance will (!) be held on Saturday, April 12, 2025"