Gunman opens fire in German city of Hamburg - Brothers and Sisters Wounded

[Hotteok]

Does Germany usually have guns? 

It was surprising because if such a thing EVER happens anywhere in the world, I thought it would be in USA.

(any crime can happen in any cong, but when it comes to gun shooting..you know)

 

Setting a x-ray system to examine all visitors might be worth a thought..?

Maybe not now but some years later… much closer to GT? 

Especially so when we invite others to a memorial or a convention,

we are basically inviting everyone, including potential criminals. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Hotteok

[Tortuga]

32 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Any who feel they need to now can use zoom.  I am the opposite.  I do not wish to return to zoom unless absolutely necessary by the determination of the the slave or local circumstances.  Much as we do not let persecution stop us from preaching, I would not allow this one event to stop me from attending meetings with my dear brothers and sisters.

Agreed. Satan would like to see us stay physically separated.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Tortuga

[Jay D]

1 hour ago, Bluebell said:

 

I don't think so that this is a one off....as Sister Carmen said: "we must not forget that we are living in the end times"  It's not getting better..it's getting worse...

The question is.. is Jehovah allowing more of this to happen....or is his day approaching very very soon?

like this year😉or next.....

Absolutely agree, I think also a worry now would be this, could apostates attack us like this now at public events, such as conventions or even the memorial? Or what about public witnessing with carts? There have been a few cases where attacks have happened at carts. Satan is clearly behind this. I know the Faithful Slave has published information about Satan's aim is not necessarily wanting to kill Jehovah's servants, it is just to draw them away from serving him to reproach Jehovah... but I do think that death is his ultimate aim, he doesn't want us to live forever, does he? And the less people who preach the good news, the less effective its spread worldwide is to a certain point, correct? He's getting more angry now.

It's so sad, but hopefully at this point the Organization is looking into upping the security at our public events, certainly I can see the safety of our brothers and sisters becoming a high priority this year after this tragedy.

 

(1 Peter 5:8)

 

I'm comforted by this scripture, regardless of what happens to us: 

 

God is our refuge and strength,

A help that is readily found in times of distress.

That is why we will not fear, though the earth undergoes change,

Though the mountains topple into the depths of the sea,

Though its waters roar and foam over,

Though the mountains rock on account of its turbulence.

~

Psalm 46:1-3

 

Jehovah will be our refuge and strength in times of distress ❤️

[Dages]

As I don't speak German, I found a portion of the interview of brother Tsifidaris

 

 Also about Zoom... This makes me wonder about our friend from this congregation who where attending the meeting on Zoom... the panic and the scream, and the police, they surely were very worried...
Let's pray for them too.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dages

[Parale]

10 minutes ago, Hotteok said:

Does Germany usually have guns? 

 

You may like to see the article I posted yesterday, which said, in part:

 

Quote

Though Germany has some of the strictest gun laws in Europe, it has a high per capita ratio of firearms. Around a million people legally own a total of more than 5 million guns. Most of them are sport shooters, hunters or foresters, but while violence remains rare, an average of 155 people are killed by gunfire every year. The past two decades have seen a gradual tightening of controls.

 

According to JW.org the population of Germany is 83 million

 

Thus around 1-in-83 German people own at least one gun, though on average those people actually own five guns.

 

 

The other reference you can checkout is Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

[Parale]

10 minutes ago, Dages said:

Also about Zoom... This makes me wonder about our friend from this congregation who where attending the meeting on Zoom... the panic and the scream, and the police, they surely were very worried...

 

I understand according to JW.org that the evening meeting started at 7.00pm, and therefore it should have finished at 8.45pm. Although it is possible that Zoom participants where still online at 9.00pm (when the attack started) it is likely that the Zoom connection had effectivley been disconnected from the KH live feed, thus I believe it would appear unlikely that they heard or saw anything.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Parale

[Michał]

Quote

 

Official statement ftom out organization:

 

https://jehovaszeugen.de/de/erganzung-zu-der-amoktat-in-hamburg/

 

(translated automatically)

 

Quote

Supplementary statement on the massacre in Hamburg

Selters/Taunus, 10.03.2023 - Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany and worldwide are deeply dismayed by the unimaginable act of violence and hatred that occurred in Hamburg on Thursday evening. During the massacre in a Kingdom Hall, after an evening service, seven Jehovah's Witnesses lost their lives, including an unborn child. Another eight were injured, four of them seriously.
We can confirm that the alleged perpetrator was a former Jehovah's Witness who left the religious community voluntarily two years ago. We are not aware of the motives for this appalling crime. Like the rest of the world, we were shocked and stunned when we read in the international news that the shooter reportedly harked "special anger" not only at Jehovah's Witnesses, but also at other religious groups and his former employer.
Our deepest sympathy goes to the families of the victims as well as the survivors. Our main focus is still on the pastoral care of all those affected by this tragedy. At the same time, our sincere thanks are due to the emergency services, who undoubtedly prevented even more deaths and injuries through their quick access.
The directly affected municipality of Hamburg-Winterhude currently includes around 60 believers. It is one of 47 congregations in the city of Hamburg with a total of almost 4,000 Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Hotteok]

1 minute ago, Michał said:

Official statement ftom out organization:

 

https://jehovaszeugen.de/de/erganzung-zu-der-amoktat-in-hamburg/

 

(translated automatically)

 

 

 

Why does Germany have another official JW website?

Excuse my ignorance. 

[Parale]

1 minute ago, Hotteok said:

Why does Germany have another official JW website?

 

I understand that it is primarily because of the official paperwork that they need to publish and make public, such as:

 

https://jehovaszeugen.de/en/law/official-gazettes/

 

Remember that there are other 'country-specific' official JW websites such as https://jw-russia.org/

[dove]

17 hours ago, Sharkfin182 said:

He first shot 10 times at a car, but then he shot into the meeting from the window. Probably the car or it’s lights were  interfering with what he was about to do 

It is amazing that if he was an expert marksman that the sister escaped harm from 10 shots aimed directly to  her car

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dove

[Amygdala]

2 hours ago, Esined said:

That and what one news article said about him self-publishing a book that he compared to the Bible makes me think schizophrenia. A symptom can be delusions  that are religious in nature. And because the disease impairs perceptions and  cognition, if it is severe they might believe that their delusions are true and refuse to get help. So sad and scary.

 

Yeah hard to say, although the visions he had speak for something. I had a former bible student in the former city we lived in here in Germany who began manifesting schizophrenia during our bible studies. She was at the right age - for women end of 20's. She had all sorts of delusional thoughts at her workplace. That people were out to "get her." It came to a head when she thought her German husband was poisoning her in the air of their apartment and locked herself in the bathroom, and proceeded to call me at 4 am. She was picked up by the ambulance and sent to the pyschiatric clinic. Another time recently we were in service with another congregation and doing door-to-door search territory when another young woman was walking around and appeared lost and delusional. She couldn't talk to anyone properly, eyes glazed, and had no idea what she was saying to us. We had to call the police, as she would have otherwise hurt herself crossing the busy street multiple times. A British man my husband had a RV with thought the KGB was after him, and tried to escape from jumping out the window of a building.

 

It could be a combination of schizophrenia and sociopathism.

[Parale]

1 minute ago, Dove said:

It is amazing that if he was such an expert marksman that the sister escaped harm from 10 shots directly to  her car

 

How recently had he actually started using a gun?

 

The article I posted yesterday said, in part:

 

Quote

A member of Hamburg’s Hanseatic Gun Club, Fusz had held a weapons licence since December last year, and the awarding of this permit is a focus of attention as the people of Hamburg prepare to bury their dead.

 

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/page/14/#comment-920357

 

 

[Parale]

3 hours ago, Parale said:

3 hours ago, Dages said:

Also about Zoom... This makes me wonder about our friend from this congregation who where attending the meeting on Zoom... the panic and the scream, and the police, they surely were very worried...

 

I understand according to JW.org that the evening meeting started at 7.00pm, and therefore it should have finished at 8.45pm. Although it is possible that Zoom participants where still online at 9.00pm (when the attack started) it is likely that the Zoom connection had effectivley been disconnected from the KH live feed, thus I believe it would appear unlikely that they heard or saw anything.

 

 

 

 

The Hamburg Morgenpost website provides some additional information about the Zoom/live-stream

 

 

Bloodbath in Alsterdorf: New details on the rampage and the perpetrator

 

11 March 2023 - Hamburg Morgenpost

 

The service was also followed by live streaming

 

According to [the Jehovah's Witness spokesperson] Michael Tsifidaris, the rampage happened after the regular church service, which always starts at 7 pm. On Thursday evening, 25 people - in addition to the 36 guests present - joined the service digitally. The service ended at 8.45 p.m. and the live stream was usually switched off afterwards.

 

The spokesperson does not yet assume that those who were connected witnessed the act. Those present had been in conversation after the service. Some were already in the process of leaving.

 

In the end, grief remains. Every member of the congregation is affected, says Tsifidaris, regardless of whether he or she was present or not. Many are in a state of shock and severely traumatised, he says. "They are now getting the best possible pastoral care. We thank the city and the authorities for assisting us here through their very professional services."

 

https://www.mopo.de/hamburg/polizei/identitaet-der-autofahrerin-bekannt-neue-details-zum-amoklauf-und-ueber-den-taeter/

[Dustparticle]

4 hours ago, Loopy said:

I’m just thinking about the heart wrenching GB meeting next Wednesday morning. Dealing with it all week and than meeting together and discussing it may be difficult. But praying about it (as they will) seeking/relying on Jehovah’s direction is going to be the most important part of that meeting. 
 

What loving responsibility our dear brothers have. 
 

May Jehovah be with them, strengthen and comfort them as well. 
 

2 Corinthians 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and “the God of all comfort”. 

Unless they meet already on this, we do not know. They can meet anytime when emergency arrives.

[Sofia]

4 hours ago, Hotteok said:

Does Germany usually have guns? 

It was surprising because if such a thing EVER happens anywhere in the world, I thought it would be in USA.

(any crime can happen in any cong, but when it comes to gun shooting..you know)

 

Setting a x-ray system to examine all visitors might be worth a thought..?

Maybe not now but some years later… much closer to GT? 

Especially so when we invite others to a memorial or a convention,

we are basically inviting everyone, including potential criminals. 

I think I read somewhere that the murderer liked to practice shooting.

Aparently he used to shoot for fun

[Sofia]

2 hours ago, Dove said:

It is amazing that if he was an expert marksman that the sister escaped harm from 10 shots aimed directly to  her car

It was dark… or … it was an angel 🙏

[hatcheckgirl]

12 hours ago, molnarj said:

For those who speek German. A wonderful witness given by our Brother.

 

https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100141964/amok-bei-zeugen-jehovas-gemeindesprecher-spricht-von-dramatischen-szenen.html

Can any German speaker please translate our brother’s speech please, if not too much trouble?

[Pabo]

4 hours ago, Dove said:

It is amazing that if he was an expert marksman that the sister escaped harm from 10 shots aimed directly to  her car

 

There is a difference between shooting at a stationary target and a moving one, especially if the marksman is moving himself, let alone whether the marksman has his focus running on adrenaline as he had just started shooting.

[Mykyl]

25 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

Can any German speaker please translate our brother’s speech please, if not too much trouble?

The bbc I think talked to him. 
 

Hamburg Jehovah's Witnesses in shock after mass shooting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64932138

[Lee49]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

I thought it would be in USA.

It's just about everyday in Nashville Tn. and around the Nashville area, I'm South of there,  next to me is Murfreesboro , they have issues also as more and more people are acquiring guns! 

[Amygdala]

This special forces unit USE is to combat terrorism or unexpected riots in Hamburg. 

 

https://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/article232392991/neue-spezialeinheit-bei-der-hamburger-polizei-unterstuetzungsstreife-hamburg-sicherheit.html

 

It's a new concept in Germany. It was adopted from Vienna, where the concept originated. The concept is that 2 police wagons with 4 police officers in each vehicle - so 8 police officers are driving all day throughout the streets of the city of Hamburg in order to literally be minutes away from anything that is a danger to the public or schools. These are specially trained police officers who pass psychological tests and are specifically trained to intervene in terrorist or similar acts between the perpetrator and possible more victims. They are recruited with rifles and gear and special training in order to be at the location of any critical situation in little time. Main goal is in order to prevent huge losses of life. The article went on to describe that the quick reaction of this special unit prevented what could have been way more loss of life at the kingdom hall, considering the number of ammunition the man had at his disposal. Something in the area of 200 ammunition.

 

There are other German federal states that are setting up the same extension or branch of this special forces unit to patrol the streets all day. This explains how the police were able to react so quickly, and with the number of police with rifles on hand. Comments from the article show that the Germans are actually praising the police for their quick reaction and response to the first emergency calls. This is a different unit of forces to the regular street police officers. It is as a backup to rioting, and they are the unit called on in such extreme situations. Always planning ahead here in Germany.

[Parale]

42 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

Can any German speaker please translate our brother’s speech please, if not too much trouble?

 

I believe the youtube vidoe below is the same interview (?) but viewed from the other side.

 

You can turn on the subtitles, and then in settings choose to translate to English automatically.

 

https://youtu.be/_FyCCPyzqK0?t=86

[Sepie93]

The bbc I think talked to him. 
 
Hamburg Jehovah's Witnesses in shock after mass shooting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64932138

Is the brother the spokesman from the Branch, or is he a local spokesman for the friends?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ELE-L29 met Tapatalk

[Amygdala]

2 minutes ago, Sepie93 said:

Is the brother the spokesman from the Branch, or is he a local spokesman for the friends?

 

According to this article:

 

https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100141964/amok-bei-zeugen-jehovas-gemeindesprecher-spricht-von-dramatischen-szenen.html

 

Der Sprecher der Zeugen Jehovas in Norddeutschland, Michael Tsifidaris, äußerte sich bei der Pressekonferenz vor der t-online-Kamera.

 

translated:

 

The spokesman for Jehovah's Witnesses in northern Germany, Michael Tsifidaris, made his comments to the t-online camera at the press conference.

[futurepromise]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/jehovahs-witness-mass-shooter-in-hamburg-named-as-philipp-fusz/ar-AA18rPa8