Gunman opens fire in German city of Hamburg - Brothers and Sisters Wounded

[Bro_BT]

10 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

How do you apply that scripture? Because all it says is pray for them.  So, do we pray they have a good day? Pray that God blesses their efforts? Pray they have peace?  

 

According to Matthew 5:44, 45 in what sense are we to pray for our enemies?  How would you respond? 

 

 

 

For me personally it would mean to pray that they are forgiven and that they change their ways / heart. 

 

“Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.”—Luke 6:27, 28.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/love-your-enemies-meaning/

Edited March 12, 2023 by Bro_BT
To be better understood

[YayaMichelle]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:22 AM, BLEmom said:

This is a rare occurrence.  We wouldn’t want to look unwelcoming by having no windows/glass doors or having other super high security measures. I’m sure the brothers will reiterate the security measures we already use and evaluate calmly any needed changes. 

but in these very critical times, being “welcoming” to the public could mean being welcoming also to the psychopaths, disgruntled people, and criminals. It’s tricky.  

 

Also another concern is how the imperfect minds work especially during tragic events like this how Satan can exploit it. There are still those who have to attend meetings via zoom due to circumstances but many choose to do in-person to be in support and obedient to the direction.  Maybe due to trauma and grief there may be some blaming phase here on how being in-person is now a bad arrangement as opposed to those who were in zoom safe and sound!  Again it’s tricky.

[Tortuga]

There are nearly 118,000 congregations around the world in different lands and cultures. It will be interesting to see if the GB makes any changes to them because of what happened.

[YayaMichelle]

Only my personal wishful thinking but i will be fully supportive of whatever the direction of the slave is:  that perhaps the midweek evening meetings can be transitioned to zoom since we’re closer to the great tribulation and we may not have a lot of it remaining?  Watchtower/public talk remains in-person as it’s usually daytime? …..  20 years ago, 10 years ago, even 3 years ago things were different. The level of crazy has grown exponentially during/post pandemic.  The witness elderlies, kids, babies, still out at night gathering inside and then  at the parking lot of the Kingdom Hall being vulnerable as preys to Satanic world … and as to what happened in Hamburg,  no miracles prevented this tragedy from happening.  It’s allowed to happen now!  Yes,  We need the new world asap  🙏

[Michał]

5 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

Could be both, or even narcissistic personality in play.

Thats a possibility as well. If I understood one of the articles @Parale posted correctly, one of his relatives mentioned that the perpetrator had “visions”. His family urged him to seek medical help but he refused. 

[Amygdala]

6 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

Could be both, or even narcissistic personality in play.

Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving surfaces in every area of the narcissist's life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.

People with narcissistic personality disorder are extremely resistant to changing their behavior, even when it's causing them problems. Their tendency is to turn the blame on to others. What's more, they are extremely sensitive and react badly to even the slightest criticisms, disagreements, or perceived slights, which they view as personal attacks. https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder.htm

 

Narcissism is different to Sociopathsism. Criminals and murderers are labeled as sociopaths and not as narcissists. The stark differences are the following:

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath-5181518

 

Quote

Sociopaths are more calculating, and have no regard for the welfare or pain of others

 

 

Quote

Narcissists differ because their actions are usually targeted towards self-inflation, and any harm done to others is usually as a result of them pursuing some kind of goal.

 

———-

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/sociopath-vs-narcissist#sociopathy

 

Sociopathy is an unofficial term for antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), a mental health condition that involves a long-standing pattern of disregard for social norms and the rights of other people. 

 

Narcissism refers to narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), a mental health condition that involves grandiose attitudes and behaviors, feelings of superiority and self-importance, and an extreme need for admiration.

 

They (Sociopaths ) might: 

• disregard laws or rules
• take a cynical, contemptuous attitude toward other people and the world in general
• manipulate and exploit other people — by lying, cheating, or stealing, for example
• rationalize their actions and show little guilt or remorse after hurting others
• behave impulsively
• quickly become irritable or aggressive, which might lead to physical conflict or property damage

————. 

 

There are similarities between the 2 disorders as only regard for oneself, but narcissists can play by the rules as it has more to do with ego-inflating, whereas sociopaths have complete anger and aggression and have no regard at all if they engage in criminal or murderous behaviour.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Woanders

[molnarj]

For those who speek German. A wonderful witness given by our Brother.

 

https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100141964/amok-bei-zeugen-jehovas-gemeindesprecher-spricht-von-dramatischen-szenen.html

[Sepie93]

For those who speek German. A wonderful witness given by our Brother.
 
https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100141964/amok-bei-zeugen-jehovas-gemeindesprecher-spricht-von-dramatischen-szenen.html

So much respect for this brother. By only hearing all those questions being thrown at him, I'm allready getting nervous
Very well done, even though my German is a little rusty

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[Hanni]

24 minutes ago, molnarj said:

For those who speek German. A wonderful witness given by our Brother.

 

https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100141964/amok-bei-zeugen-jehovas-gemeindesprecher-spricht-von-dramatischen-szenen.html

His answers are perfect. Indeed a wonderful witness. 

[Amygdala]

Wonderful that the circuit assembly still took place on the weekend. Also in German: 

 

https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hallo_niedersachsen/Kurz-nach-Amoklauf-Zeugen-Jehovas-halten-Kongress-ab,hallonds79048.html

 

Also mentions at the end that the man had voluntarily left on his own voalition.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Woanders

[Amygdala]

If there are any type of sociopathic behaviour being displayed in your respective area, use it as alarm bells!! 

[franceml]

 
Actually your observation is very understandable and although it may sound scary or disturbing but the answer to your question is "yes",a situation like this can happen and yes Jehovah can still allow it to happen.
I think we have seen enough to help us gain understanding of how Jehovah does things.
But here is what we need to always remember,that Jehovah can and he will reverse whatever damage Satan's rulership has caused to this earth and to Jehovah's faithful servants.
Even though we apply every precautions to preserve our life,it is important to know that Jehovah's people do not fear death,because we have the hope of resurrection-Isaiah 25:8.

"A little child is playing with his most beautiful and important toy. But ... Suddenly its broken and the little child is crying. Then a thought comes up to his mind and he remember something very important: his father knows how to repair everything, he is got a very special glue that will do! He says to himself: I will call my father and he will repair it for me! Since then, the little child wipe out his tears and run to find his father ".
Jesus mentioned: and said: “Truly I say to you, unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the Kingdom of the heavens." Mathew 18;3
We are on time to develop obedience and trust in Jehovah's power and desires to repair everything that is broken through Jesus's Ransom Sacrifice ( our "glue") whatever it's broken. We don't know how He Will do ... But, He WILL DO!

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[franceml]

 
For me personally it would mean to pray that they are forgiven and that they change their ways / heart. 
 
“Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.”—Luke 6:27, 28.
 
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/love-your-enemies-meaning/

That prayer will not be only for them (they may change Prov. 25:22) it's also for us. We won't develop into our hears roots that will kill our faith in JEHOVAH AND HIS SON.


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[Jay D]

8 hours ago, Bro_BT said:

 

Unfortunately there are may opposers who will use this event persecute us further. It's good to remember that the Apostle Paul was once opposed.  

 

I've already encountered an opposer (non believer) who has joked about this event to me in a mocking way. 

 

As discussed above, this would not apply to apostates.

Thanks you for the clarification, I see where you're coming from. 😊

In line with Acts 4:29 we can appropriately ask Jehovah to "give attention to their threats" and leave the matter in his hands. 

It's sadly inevitable that some apostates will mock this event, certain types of people who leave the truth who are absolutely desensitized will say and do things without caring about the feelings of others, in reality they are no different from many of their worldly counterparts and this proves ever more so how deep we are in the Last Days and how we desperately need Jehovah to step in. As we wait patiently for his Kingdom rule, we can all support and strengthen each other through every trial and every disappointment.

Acts 28:15, 1 Thessalonians 5:11 & Hebrews 10:25 are wonderful scriptures that can lift us up and help us feel the warm hug that Jehovah extends to us during these times of need. 

[Jay D]

4 hours ago, YayaMichelle said:

Only my personal wishful thinking but i will be fully supportive of whatever the direction of the slave is:  that perhaps the midweek evening meetings can be transitioned to zoom since we’re closer to the great tribulation and we may not have a lot of it remaining?  Watchtower/public talk remains in-person as it’s usually daytime? …..  20 years ago, 10 years ago, even 3 years ago things were different. The level of crazy has grown exponentially during/post pandemic.  The witness elderlies, kids, babies, still out at night gathering inside and then  at the parking lot of the Kingdom Hall being vulnerable as preys to Satanic world … and as to what happened in Hamburg,  no miracles prevented this tragedy from happening.  It’s allowed to happen now!  Yes,  We need the new world asap  🙏

 

My sister it's so scary isn't it 😥

I think that if that did happen, that would be part of a loving idea. Unfortunately though, in some parts of the world our brothers and sisters will still go out and socialise in public areas such as restaurants or cinemas in the evenings and such a tragedy could happen in any public place. Jehovah's Organization won't be able to stop us from making these personal decisions. 

I was thinking about this, we don't need to fear going out and having a good time with our friends as well as sharing in Spiritual activities because of what may or may never happen. 

Ecclesiastes 9:11

"Time and unexpected events overtake them all"

 

As this was one isolated event in Germany, it's unlikely we'll see any more of this type of crime in Germany or other countries. The brothers are on the alert and no doubt they will give us direction that will further protect us. 😊

[GoldAussieGirl]

11 hours ago, carlos said:

This morning several people approached us at the carts to express their condolences for the Hamburg massacre. Some of them accepted a publication or a Memorial invitation.

 

This is of course a terrible and tragic event, but Jehovah can even make some good come from it.

Something good to come out of this horrific evil act. 

It may draw honest hearted ones to the truth 💜

[Bluebell]

2 hours ago, Jay D said:

 

As this was one isolated event in Germany, it's unlikely we'll see any more of this type of crime in Germany or other countries. The brothers are on the alert and no doubt they will give us direction that will further protect us. 😊

 

I don't think so that this is a one off....as Sister Carmen said: "we must not forget that we are living in the end times"  It's not getting better..it's getting worse...

The question is.. is Jehovah allowing more of this to happen....or is his day approaching very very soon?

like this year😉or next.....

Edited March 12, 2023 by Bluebell

[Esined]

6 hours ago, Michał said:

If I understood one of the articles @Parale posted correctly, one of his relatives mentioned that the perpetrator had “visions”. His family urged him to seek medical help but he refused. 

That and what one news article said about him self-publishing a book that he compared to the Bible makes me think schizophrenia. A symptom can be delusions  that are religious in nature. And because the disease impairs perceptions and  cognition, if it is severe they might believe that their delusions are true and refuse to get help. So sad and scary.

[Loopy]

I’m just thinking about the heart wrenching GB meeting next Wednesday morning. Dealing with it all week and than meeting together and discussing it may be difficult. But praying about it (as they will) seeking/relying on Jehovah’s direction is going to be the most important part of that meeting. 
 

What loving responsibility our dear brothers have. 
 

May Jehovah be with them, strengthen and comfort them as well. 
 

2 Corinthians 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and “the God of all comfort”. 

[Dages]

1 minute ago, Loopy said:

2 Corinthians 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and “the God of all comfort”. 

That's the main verse of today's talk here
it will be more on the "mercy" part but there will be a word about this.

[coony77]

5 hours ago, molnarj said:

For those who speek German. A wonderful witness given by our Brother.

 

https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100141964/amok-bei-zeugen-jehovas-gemeindesprecher-spricht-von-dramatischen-szenen.html

 

Thank you, János, the brother did an excellent job! A really good witness under these tragic circumstances.

[Bluebell]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64932138

 

Police have told them that they cannot rule out the possibility of a so-called copycat attack, says Michael Tsifidaris, who speaks for the community here.

 

 

Some of our friends in hospital are still fighting to survive. Keep praying for them, please!

Edited March 12, 2023 by Bluebell

[BLEmom]

8 hours ago, YayaMichelle said:

Only my personal wishful thinking but i will be fully supportive of whatever the direction of the slave is:  that perhaps the midweek evening meetings can be transitioned to zoom since we’re closer to the great tribulation and we may not have a lot of it remaining?  Watchtower/public talk remains in-person as it’s usually daytime? …..  20 years ago, 10 years ago, even 3 years ago things were different. The level of crazy has grown exponentially during/post pandemic.  The witness elderlies, kids, babies, still out at night gathering inside and then  at the parking lot of the Kingdom Hall being vulnerable as preys to Satanic world … and as to what happened in Hamburg,  no miracles prevented this tragedy from happening.  It’s allowed to happen now!  Yes,  We need the new world asap  🙏

Any who feel they need to now can use zoom.  I am the opposite.  I do not wish to return to zoom unless absolutely necessary by the determination of the the slave or local circumstances.  Much as we do not let persecution stop us from preaching, I would not allow this one event to stop me from attending meetings with my dear brothers and sisters.
My personal feelings of course. If others are fearful and wish to stay home, that is a personal decision.  

[Ross Au]

There is only one celebrating this tragic event and he will continue to celebrate while we are distracted and talking about what he has achieved. Don’t give him anything to celebrate. Praise Jehovah and look to the wonderful hope of seeing ALL our family in the new world. Please.

 

[Amygdala]

11 hours ago, Bro_BT said:

For me personally it would mean to pray that they are forgiven and that they change their ways / heart. 

 

“Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.”—Luke 6:27, 28.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/love-your-enemies-meaning/

 

 

I agree in general, but considering the circumstances, I would personally prefer to pray more for the families and friends of the deceased and injured and more about their feelings, and leave the rest to Jehovah. I wouldn’t expect the families to automatically change their feelings for the person or groups who caused/promoted it.