JW Parents take their sick boy from hospital

[boodles]

I'm glad the situation is looking better, this story could have turned out much differently. I know I've learned a few things.  I think all along we all just wanted the boy's well-being and I hope he gets the best treatment available.

[Buddy]

We had a newscast here in British Columbia Canada and they didn't bring up anything about them being Jehovah's Witnesses

[well]

Wow! Jehovah has His way to sanctify his name...   

[futurepromise]

The release from custody of the parents of the desperately sick boy Ashya King is very good news. Their flight to Spain, and the subsequent issuing of a European Arrest Warrant (EAW) for them, provoked an understandable outpouring of emotion, none more heartfelt than that of the Prime Minister. Yesterday he spoke with great dignity of cradling his own son, Ivan, who had cerebral palsy, before he died in 2009. “I just hope there’ll be a rapid outbreak of common sense so that the family can be reunited with this young boy and the best treatment can be given to him, in the United Kingdom or elsewhere,” Mr Cameron said. He now has the first part of his wish.

But as Jacob Rees-Mogg notes below, good wishes cannot hide the fact that Ashya and his family have been treated appallingly by the EAW. Its advocates claim that it is necessary to deal with the worst criminals, from paedophiles to terrorists. But this heart-rending case has shown that its effects go far beyond this laudable aim.

There are two explanations for this abuse of power. Either the inbuilt insensitivity of institutions has resulted in a sledgehammer being deployed to crack a nut. Or, more worryingly, the EAW is a potent symbol of the EU’s determination to impose its federalist ideology on the people it is meant to serve. In this latter version of events, the EAW is no sledgehammer, but the natural extension of the desire to treat EU members as regions of a single administrative entity. For Brussels, the mechanism that ensnared the Kings is no more sinister than a request from one UK police force to another.

That is nonsense. The handing over of people from country to country is a judicial process of enormous gravity. Citizens deserve, at the very least, that their nations stand up for them, not wash their hands of them. As the Kings know all too well, we lose sight of that at our peril.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11070405/Ashya-King-Powers-of-persecution.html

 

[futurepromise]

The parents actions are not in any way a reproach on Jehovah's name as this quote brings out. It is from the many comments from the above article.

 

" Judgement, the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses and whilst I am not a supporter of JWs they do not lie. Authorities make an art form out of it."

[jayrtom]

I have noticed a big turnaround in Spanish newspapers covering this news.

The first days, they insisted all the time in the parents being JWs, as if that had anything to do with the situation. Most of the comments by readers were very critical against Witnesses, calling us a dangerous cult, talking about our refusal of blood, and the like.

Suddenly, all newspapers have stopped any mention that they were JWs, and some have even stated that the reasons for their behaviour were not religious. I guess the Legal Department at the branch has done it's homework. And surprisingly most comments by readers now are protesting that the religious aspect was even brought up, and saying it wouldn't have been mentioned if they had been Catholics, or Buddhists or Atheists. Many are also feeling identified with the parents and saying they did the right thing.

Last night and today there have been representatives from Bethel being interviewed in several national tv channels the whole day, and a great witness has been given. Now everybody knows that Witnesses want the best possible treatment for their children.

I noticed something similar in Portugal, altough with much less coverage...

But isn't it great how Jehovah never allows for his name to be tarnished specialy when the situation appeared to be leading in that direction

I am so glad this turned 180 degrees!

[futurepromise]

Last night and today there have been representatives from Bethel being interviewed in several national tv channels the whole day, and a great witness has been given. Now everybody knows that Witnesses want the best possible treatment for their children.

 

Can you please give the link to this coverage.

[futurepromise]

[Cool Cat]

I signed the petition to free our brother and sister from jail and put some money towards the fund to pay for his treatment a few days ago. Glad to see it seemed to help and hope the money can be used soon by the family.

[futurepromise]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-09-03/ashya-king-so-happy-to-see-family-in-hospital/

[rocket]

I signed the petition to free our brother and sister from jail and put some money towards the fund to pay for his treatment a few days ago. Glad to see it seemed to help and hope the money can be used soon by the family.

 

I didn't know anything about the petition but my sister, not knowing it was a Witness family, signed it.

[shali]

Boy, isn't Satan wasting his time?!!! He is the one who blew this whole thing out of proportion and made it look like one of Jehovah's dear ones was being a lunatic in saving his son.  Jehovah's name is often dragged through the dirt in this system (if it's even mentioned) but Jehovah will never allow a faithful one to feel that he has brought reproach on the name/person he loves the most! When Brother King made the YouTube video, it wasn't  just to vindicate his actions but Jehovah knew his motives were also to clear HIS beautiful name and he blessed that brother and his family!

Edited September 4, 2014 by shali

[Buddy]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-09-03/ashya-king-so-happy-to-see-family-in-hospital/

There's a new updated video

Edited September 4, 2014 by a3a27988

[retroHelen]

While the parents were in jail in Spain the Portsmouth Council acted to make Ashya a Ward of the Courts - photos of the stamped documents are circulating on the Internet. I did not understand the reasoning for this as Ashya was in the best hospital with the best consultants for his care already in Malaga as the choice of the parents and one of their own Council members let out a statement that he should be united with his parents and they should not be in jail. Now this Court Order is interfering with the ability to quickly get the boy to any further treatment outside the Malaga hospital, should he need to be moved. He can only be in the Malaga Hospital or returned to England under the care of the High Court. To return to England would be going in the opposite direction to where his parents want to go to get his treatment.This problem is holding things up and even if they revoke the order the paperwork and communications could take time.

 

The hospital that caused all the trouble was on TV last night saying they had been helping the parents get treatment abroad - if this were true, why stop them when they said what they would have to go and do? Then a consultant tried to make out that the parent's choice of the hospital in the Czec republic was a bad one as it's an old piece of machinery over there - which is not the impression we were given when the TV interviewed the Czec hospital representatives and were shown round the facility. 

 

In the meantime if they can go ahead and take up the offer of treatment in the Czec hospital, then a Children's Cancer Charity has offered to help pay for treatment, so people are donating towards help and support for the family. The family were trying to sell a holiday home to pay for this, but this may take time to be finalised and had all been suspended by the authorities. So far I read that £50 000 has been raised by many sources including £5 000 from a restaurant in London. It will help compensate for all the delay and heartache they have suffered so far. Hope the Ward of Court notice is overturned soon.

 

Last year on BBC Radio 4 there was a series about British Medical ethics. I listened to various debates on different subjects and then inevitably our issue with blood transfusions came up. There were consultatnts for whom we were no problem as they were aware of alternative procedures and in some cases found the alternatives had at least equal outcomes. Consultants were generally knowledgeable of patient rights and responsibilities for adults, However, they visited a hospital in the South Of England and asked a Consultant there about children of Jehovah's Witnesses and he said that he advised anyone he knew in the medical profession to put through to High Courts for a Ward of Court Order as soon as they discover a child is a JW, as he couldn't stand interfering JW parents and HLC representatives getting in the way of his 'standard procedures'. Talk about ignorant knee jerk reaction! I could not believe what I was hearing. He was asked if he wasn't willing to hear them out first - no he would go straight to the courts no matter what time of day or night the JW child arrived to him. Even the seasoned interviewer - I think her name is Janet Baker - was shocked at his total disregard for feelings of the parents or the child if it were competent enough or if the case presented would always involve a blood trasnfusion anyway. When it comes to children some hospital staff and teachers are quite against parents having any influence on their own children if it interferes with what they want to do with those children.

Edited September 4, 2014 by retroHelen

[futurepromise]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2743229/I-love-Ashya-Kings-father-reveals-words-son-reunited-Spanish-hospital-says-critically-ill-boys-health-deteriorated.html

 

This link gives more detail.

[Jewelz]

Good news! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29086267

[Toy Poodles]

The poor mother looks exhausted, poor thing. We need to pray that Jehovah will give her stamina to get through all of this. 

[AlexMichaels]

I watched the video of the father's explanation.. I cannot blame them for doing what they did.. I would do it too.. Praying for little Ashya and his family.. I cannot imagine how hard it must all be.. 

[JahisKing]

I guess my opinion differs from everyone on this thread.

I'm trying not to pass judgment either way but

after reading various news stories after this broke IMO they seem to be willing to ANYTHING to save their son.

"When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn’t necessary."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11067254/Ashya-Kings-brother-defends-parents-actions-as-couple-await-court-ruling-in-Spain.html

It seems that there's no need for a liason committee

[carlos]

I guess my opinion differs from everyone on this thread.

I'm trying not to pass judgment either way but

after reading various news stories after this broke IMO they seem to be willing to ANYTHING to save their son.

"When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn’t necessary."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11067254/Ashya-Kings-brother-defends-parents-actions-as-couple-await-court-ruling-in-Spain.html

It seems that there's no need for a liason committee

 

Shantel, you may very well be right and maybe the parents have lost their balance. But so many lies have been told by the journalists concerning this case, that I don’t trust anything they say anymore. Maybe they distorted those declarations, or maybe the son did not tell the truth, or maybe the parents accepted some deal with the doctors that we don’t understand clearly.

 

When I was still a child I once had to undergo urgent surgery and the best deal my parents were able to obtain from the doctor was an unwritten promise that he wouldn’t use blood unless absolutely necessary. Being a minor, the alternative was calling in a judge to authorize the transfusion, so my parents accepted that condition as the lesser of two evils. Everything went well. But what if it had gone wrong? A hard decision indeed! Maybe something similar happened with the Kings?

 

So, even if that statement is true, which we don’t know for sure, I still don’t feel I am in a situation to judge the parents. The best thing we can do for our brothers is to keep praying for them. I am sure you agree.

[ava]

I guess my opinion differs from everyone on this thread.

I'm trying not to pass judgment either way but

after reading various news stories after this broke IMO they seem to be willing to ANYTHING to save their son.

"When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn’t necessary."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11067254/Ashya-Kings-brother-defends-parents-actions-as-couple-await-court-ruling-in-Spain.html

It seems that there's no need for a liason committee

 

 

I read the link you posted and I found this comment interesting:

 

"They did not want to hear anything about his research as they did not believe any of the information that was being given, saying that the internet could not be trusted," he said."

 

 

My daughter was born in Chicago, and my son in Ft. Worth.  When my son was diagnosed with the exact same problem my daughter had I asked the doctors in Ft. Worth to look at my daughter's medical records from Chicago to see how she was treated without a blood transfusion.  Wow, talk about insulted doctors.  They were not happy when I suggested that they review other treatments.  I mean these doctors in their mind are educated and do not need opinions/advice from others, lol.  The arrogance I had to deal with in regards to these doctors is something I can't explain.

 

So I definitely understand these parents.

 

 

 

As to this comment in the article:

 

"When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn’t necessary."

 

 

First, the news could have worded this incorrectly.

 

Second, maybe it wasn't so much as agreeing to a blood transfusion, but rather knowing the law would force it and you have no choice.  As I said in a previous post in this thread, the law will respect the wishes of an adult regarding blood, but they do not respect the wishes of a parent when it comes to a minor child.  My children fortunately were able to be treated without a blood transfusion,  but I know that I could have fought it (if it came to that point) and I would have lost and my kids would have received the blood.  .So maybe that is really more the situation then rather they agreed to it.

 

In the end, we do not have all the facts and whatever the case is, these parents need our prayers.  I have dealt with this twice in my life, fighting doctors and hospitals for the best treatment of my children without blood transfusion, and it is an emotionally draining experience that I do not wish on anyone.  You are physically exhausted, mentally drained, scared, being yelled out cause you are a terrible parent who will let your child die rather then give them blood, threatened with temporary loss of your child, etc. When you go through this, honestly, your head just doesn't think right and you may make snap decisions that are not the right ones.

[Cool Cat]

I guess my opinion differs from everyone on this thread.

I'm trying not to pass judgment either way but

after reading various news stories after this broke IMO they seem to be willing to ANYTHING to save their son.

"When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn’t necessary."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11067254/Ashya-Kings-brother-defends-parents-actions-as-couple-await-court-ruling-in-Spain.html

It seems that there's no need for a liason committee

 

The father is a respected elder of his congregation. On the Saturday of our international convention at Twickenham my COBE and his wife were next to us having a meal with members of his congregation. 

 

The hospital liaison committee can't do anything about whether a child gets a blood transfusion if he needs one. It also is not up to the parents. There would be no point in making a massive problem about having blood as that is the greatest way to make the parents separated from their very sick child. Yes they can ask for other treatment to be used first but Southhampton hospital don't have the greatest record of dealing with witnesses and the blood issue.

 

I would be careful to believe all you hear in the papers. British tabloids are rubbish at telling the true story.

 

The whole story has actually brought a lot of praise on Jehovah's name, dispelled some nonsense myths and given us a good talking point for the next few years at least if anyone brings up the blood issue with us. We will be able to remind them that we seek the best medical treatment for ourselves and our children we just personally refrain from having blood for biblical reasons.

[Hartley]

The father is a respected elder of his congregation. On the Saturday of our international convention at Twickenham my COBE and his wife were next to us having a meal with members of his congregation.

The hospital liaison committee can't do anything about whether a child gets a blood transfusion if he needs one. It also is not up to the parents. There would be no point in making a massive problem about having blood as that is the greatest way to make the parents separated from their very sick child. Yes they can ask for other treatment to be used first but Southhampton hospital don't have the greatest record of dealing with witnesses and the blood issue.

I would be careful to believe all you hear in the papers. British tabloids are rubbish at telling the true story.

The whole story has actually brought a lot of praise on Jehovah's name, dispelled some nonsense myths and given us a good talking point for the next few years at least if anyone brings up the blood issue with us. We will be able to remind them that we seek the best medical treatment for ourselves and our children we just personally refrain from having blood for biblical reasons.

Thank you for the clarification. It just shows how we should not believe every word. Especialy not from the media

Hartley

[Fiona]

Shantel, you may very well be right and maybe the parents have lost their balance. But so many lies have been told by the journalists concerning this case, that I don’t trust anything they say anymore. Maybe they distorted those declarations, or maybe the son did not tell the truth, or maybe the parents accepted some deal with the doctors that we don’t understand clearly.

When I was still a child I once had to undergo urgent surgery and the best deal my parents were able to obtain from the doctor was an unwritten promise that he wouldn’t use blood unless absolutely necessary. Being a minor, the alternative was calling in a judge to authorize the transfusion, so my parents accepted that condition as the lesser of two evils. Everything went well. But what if it had gone wrong? A hard decision indeed! Maybe something similar happened with the Kings?

So, even if that statement is true, which we don’t know for sure, I still don’t feel I am in a situation to judge the parents. The best thing we can do for our brothers is to keep praying for them. I am sure you agree.

If it had gone wrong then the courts would have taken you anyway. So your parents were right to get at least a verbal. We were told by the HLC that if we took our son out if the hospital the fact remains that all hospitals and drs would all give blood if needed. The fact that the dr was honest and said so but was willing to try was the best we could get.

But it was a little bit of a different situation.

In Ashya's case it was not a blood issue just a different treatment. All drs have their favourite and will stick you in a box and many won't even consider other options. This seems to be the case in the Kings story. The HLC had no need to be involved.

I am shocked to see so many parents even witnesses that just go to hospitals and don't ask questions. Amazed that parents don't ask what alternatives are and drs don't tell. They don't tell side effects, reactions, or other treatments.

As witnesses we shouldn't just be concerned about blood but our health as a whole and for us to be in charge.

And for people to judge this brother and sister sickens me. In fact I feel my blood pressure boil. They did what they could do to protect their child. I've never felt such respect for the family. OUR family.. OUR brother and sister. As you said all we can do is pray for them with an honest heart that Jehovah help them face whatever comes.

And pray that our family doesn't judge them rather support their decisions.

[Fiona]

Thank you for the clarification. It just shows how we should not believe every word. Especialy not from the media

Hartley

Never believe the media. You would be amazed how much they twist things.