The Founder

[ChocoBro]

 

We just watched this movie yesterday on DVD. What a depressing flick!

 

One scripture that constantly crossed my mind was

 

Quote

For I became envious of the arrogant
When I would see the peace of the wicked.

Psalm 73:3

 

The movie portrays the story of the "founder" of the McDonald's corporation, Ray Crock... I mean Kroc... who stole the idea of a fast-food restaurant with efficiently developed interaction processes in a kitchen, along with the name of the restaurant from the actual founders Richard and Maurice McDonald.

 

During his campaign to make McDonald's a nationwide phenomenon, Kroc constantly tries to "modernize" the idea of the McDonald's by changing some things to the dismay of Richard and Maurice. One prime example is, to save money, he and some others attempt to replace the actual ice-cream milk-shake with powdered shakes.

 

Driven by his idea of franchising the concept across America, he mortgages his house and ditches his wife Ethel, who died a few years after the divorce, and a few years later he married a somewhat more driven person, Joan Smith, who was a married woman with child.

 

At some point in the movie he meets a clever young man called Harry J. Sonneborn, who becomes a critical advisor of Kroc heling him to hijack the McDonald's trademark and idea and to make it his own. Sonneborn also got into severe rows with Kroc and left McDonald's as early as 1967, only a few years after he helped Kroc basically rob the actual founders of their concept.

 

As sad as the story is, and as horrible as this guy seems to have been, I found the story to be a great showcase of how corporatism / capitalism started to overtake the idea of the American dream somewhere around the 50'ies and 60'ies. The little man comes up with a great idea and the greedy man shows up and steals it to rake in the profit. To me, the fifties and sixties were the era where things stopped being wonderful and everything started being efficient, artificial, chemical, unnatural, profitable, and I think McDonald's and this story is a great example of how true that is.

 

Don't watch the movie on an empty stomach or you'll desperately crave an authentic fifties McDonald's burger.

Edited October 29, 2017 by ChocoBro

[Thesauron]

17 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

To me, the fifties and sixties were the era where things stopped being wonderful and everything started being efficient, artificial, chemical, unnatural, profitable

But where things really wonderful before that? You had the war, and before that, the depression era. Before that, the First World War.

[Thomas Walker]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

But where things really wonderful before that? You had the war, and before that, the depression era. Before that, the First World War.

 

1950's America was idyllic...

 

...as long as you were white, male, straight, Christian, and employed. if you didn't tick all of those boxes, it was a little less charming.

[Pjdriver]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

But where things really wonderful before that? You had the war, and before that, the depression era. Before that, the First World War.

 

I too view the sixties as major down turn in the worlds morals. True there's  always been problems but it seems a new attitude developed around that time. I think it had a lot to do with events and people that lived prior to that. 

 

The world wars were obviously horrible, but I believe that the only thing that has prevented a 3rd WW is the dread of what could happen with all the new weaponry. A third world war, which would be inevitable, if not for Jehovah, would make the previous 2 WWs pale, and would be catastrophic.

 

Take a close look at morals especially. I believe they took a major downturn in the sixties, and  now are far worse than ever. The world is like a house of cards. The whole system could collapse overnight.

[Thesauron]

 
I too view the sixties as major down turn in the worlds morals. True there's  always been problems but it seems a new attitude developed around that time. I think it had a lot to do with events and people that lived prior to that. 
 
The world wars were obviously horrible, but I believe that the only thing that has prevented a 3rd WW is the dread of what could happen with all the new weaponry. A third world war, which would be inevitable, if not for Jehovah, would make the previous 2 WWs pale, and would be catastrophic.
 
Take a close look at morals especially. I believe they took a major downturn in the sixties, and  now are far worse than ever. The world is like a house of cards. The whole system could collapse overnight.

Usually historians view WWI as the turning point, with the immediate time before that as an era filled with optimism that you could call La Belle Époque. Since then, it seems things have started to spiral out of control. Sure the 50’s was a dream for a certain class of people in the US, I guess. But for a majority in this world, it was not.

It’s kind of interesting to listen to historians explain the 60’s from a moral standpoint, what made the young middle class rebel in the west, and what made their children and grandchildren even more moralistic and fearful of the world than their ancestors ever were.


Any day now...

[ChocoBro]

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

But where things really wonderful before that?

 

The burgers at McDonald's certainly were.

 

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

You had the war

 

We still have wars today, despite a lower annual death toll. Wars still have a massive impact on the populace. The difference is, back then, people knew there was a war, and the idea of war was disconcerting. Today, nobody cares about some "******heads" (I used a somewhat racist slur on purpose to underscore the callous attitude of such people) being murdered in Iraq.

 

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

and before that, the depression era

 

The depression was bad, yes, but have you ever seen what Detroit looks like these days?

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Before that, the First World War.

 

Oh, First World War uniforms are a prime example, even those used to be more stylish and aesthetic.

 

French Soldier in 1914

French soldier in 2014

 

 

 

Jokes aside, though not everything was perfect in Satan's system long before the end, yes, things have gotten worse towards the end in a LOT of ways.

 

The bible confirms this when it says

 

Quote

in the last days [...] men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, [...] having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5

 

Watch the movie and you'll know what I mean.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Walker said:

 

1950's America was idyllic...

 

...as long as you were white, male, straight, Christian, and employed. if you didn't tick all of those boxes, it was a little less charming.

 

Which brings me to one of the things about the movie itself I got a little upset about. And they seem to be doing this in Hollywood a lot these days, and it seems a little revisionistic in a historical sense. There are black background actors sharing the same restaurant, speaking casually with the main protagonist and so on, as if this was set in the eighties. I watched a movie a while back where there was a black British Expeditionary Force soldier in Dunkirk.. there was never such a thing, the entire West was still completely locked in a racist mindset, yet Hollywood decides to portray this day and age as "inclusive" and completely omits the topic of racism.

 

EDIT: Oh, another thing my wife said, yes, not everything in the fifties was perfect. After all, people smoked everywhere, including restaurants and movie theaters.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by ChocoBro

[Pjdriver]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Usually historians view WWI as the turning point,

Yes I'm familiar with that. This is why I used the term a major down turn. Even after that turning point in 1914, things have progressively gotten worse. True?

from my observation and many others as well, especially in the sixties and forward the world  took a notable turn for the worse as regards everyday morals. 

 

Womens lib brought in a more liberal view of sexual behavior for women. Movies and tv became more and more liberal with language and sex. Mini skirts and tight fitting clothing and bikinis has become the norm. More protest and questioning of authority, children disrespectful, divorce rate, broken families. Upsurge in drug abuse. Homosexuality has gradually become just another lifestyle. etc etc....

 

Immoral behavior has always been happening, but now it's accepted as normal and a persons right, without the stigma that existed prior. 

 

From my observation (a child of the 50s and 60s) the 60s or thereabouts was that 2nd turning point. An open change in attitude toward age old moral standards that most people at least pretended to adhere to. 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Pjdriver

[Thesauron]

Yes I'm familiar with that. This is why I used the term a major down turn. Even after that turning point in 1914, things have progressively gotten worse. True?
from my observation and many others as well, especially in the sixties and forward the world  took a notable turn for the worse as regards everyday morals. 
 
Womens lib brought in a more liberal view of sexual behavior for women. Movies and tv became more and more liberal with language and sex. Mini skirts and tight fitting clothing and bikinis has become the norm. More protest and questioning of authority, children disrespectful, divorce rate, broken families. Upsurge in drug abuse. Homosexuality has gradually become just another lifestyle. etc etc....
 
Immoral behavior has always been happening, but now it's accepted as normal and a persons right, without the stigma that existed prior. 
 
From my observation (a child of the 50s and 60s) the 60s or thereaboutser was that 2nd turning point. An open change in attitude toward age old moral standards that most people at least pretended to adhere to. 
 

But compared to the 70s we have become much more uptight, the kids are no longer allowed to roam free, women are putting on their bras again, so to speak. Sexuality is no longer as free as it was prior to the outbreak of AIDS. Divorce rate is going down in the U.S.


Any day now...

[ChocoBro]

7 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Sexuality is no longer as free as it was prior to the outbreak of AIDS. Divorce rate is going down in the U.S.
 

 

I wonder what you base that first blanket statement on. Though the AIDS scare did lead to a more monogamous sex-life for a while, and a higher sale of condoms, that has receded in the last years, especially due to the quick availability of new partners through tinder and the like. Sexting is a completely new and huge issue in the West especially among millenials. I really doubt that it can be said that "sexuality is no longer as free as it was prior to the outbreak of AIDS"

 

When it comes to divorce rates, you are speaking like the über-optimistic people that celebrate crime rates going down by a half percent annually after they have quardrupled within a decade beforehand. Divorce rates are going down, what, as opposed to ten years? Twenty years? The sixties? The fourties? What base value do you base the assumption on that "divorce rates are going down"?

 

You actually seem to be very complacent with the world you live in. That's your good right. However, have you ever noticed that you are often the driving force behing threads going off-topic and into discussions that they never really intended to be? Sometimes it feels like straight out of Monty Python's Argument Clinic.

 

No it doesn't.

 

Yes it does!

 

No.. it doesn't!

 

Yes, it does!

 

Anyway, just wanted to say it's a good movie I think can be recommended to friends. Sighning out for now.

[Thesauron]

29 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

What base value do you base the assumption on that "divorce rates are going down"?

The linked artcle was talking about a 40 year low in the US.

30 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

You actually seem to be very complacent with the world you live in.

Not at all, but finding facts is important, when possible.

31 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

However, have you ever noticed that you are often the driving force behing threads going off-topic

Quite unintentional if it’s often me.

[Pjdriver]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

But compared to the 70s we have become much more uptight, the kids are no longer allowed to roam free, women are putting on their bras again, so to speak. Sexuality is no longer as free as it was prior to the outbreak of AIDS. Divorce rate is going down in the U.S.


Any day now...

 

Johan, I don't have statistics which are not always a reliable indicator. But common sense and experience or observation across the board, even among everyday worldly people that don't have an agenda to promote the idea that  things aren't that bad, indicates to me that these things are getting worse not better.

Aside from the normal/typical  dips and surges in statistics, the world is on a downward spiral.  Certain things may seem to improve but its not a hopeful situation  from a worldly point of view. Despite what you may think, the world is on a steady decline, morally speaking. You'll find very few people to agree with you on that.

 

Do you feel hopeful that the worlds morals are improving?

Don't  put your confidence in certain statistics. Just look at the world as a whole, watch the news, look at the movies out there. Maybe you're too young to remember, but this is a different world than your parents lived in. 

[Thesauron]

1 hour ago, Pjdriver said:

Do you feel hopeful that the worlds morals are improving?

Don't  put your confidence in certain statistics. Just look at the world as a whole, watch the news, look at the movies out there. Maybe you're too young to remember, but this is a different world than your parents lived in. 

Certainly not yet, but in the mentioned area (divorce in the US) available statistics does not show an increase. However, speaking of morality as a whole, it seems there’s a decline. Some things are improving, though. Like violent crimes in the U.S. People still seem to be more afraid, and fear is the key issue, it seems.

[Pjdriver]

23 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

fear is the key issue, it seems.

 

...and for good reason.

[Thesauron]

 
...and for good reason.

Indeed. Well, a reason, perhaps not always a good one. Fear, it seems, is used as a tool by politicians and others to further their agendas.


Any day now...

[Qapla]

I will start this comment by prefacing with this: In HS, one of my daughters took "Statistics". One of the things she learned is that you can make numbers say almost anything you want them to.

 

Now, onto my comment.

 

There may be some statistics that indicate that divorce is going down .... but, do those statistics also show that marriage rates are also going down? Keep in mind, you live in Stockholm, not the US. I am not basing my comments on a list of numbers someone has decided prove a certain point. I am talking about what I see on a daily basis, since I live in the US.

 

When people simply move in together and "call" themselves "husband and wife", they do no need to divorce to split apart - they just move out from each other. With less people getting married before having a "family", of course there could be less divorces.

 

That does not mean that there are less people breaking families apart, it just means there are less people doing it legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, back to the topic.....

 

McDonalds today does not taste anything like they did back in the 1960's

Edited October 29, 2017 by Qapla

[Thesauron]

4 minutes ago, Qapla said:

I will start this comment by prefacing with this: In HS, one of my daughters took "Statistics". One of the things she learned is that you can make numbers say almost anything you want them to.

Yes, this is true. You need to know how to use the statistics. Just because it can be misused does not mean you shouldn’t use them.

 

5 minutes ago, Qapla said:

There may be some statistics that indicate that divorce is going down .... but, do those statistics also show that marriage rates are also going down? Keep in mind, you live in Stockholm, not the US. I am not basing my comments on a list of numbers someone has decided prove a certain point. I am talking about what I see on a daily basis, since I live in the US.

 

When people simply move in together and "call" themselves "husband and wife", they do no need to divorce to split apart - they just move out from each other. With less people getting married before having a "family", of course there could be less divorces.

Yes, the problem, really, is that they do not form families according to God’s standards to begin with. That’s a different problem, though. Many see “family units” as something fleeting that you can change when you see fit. Some units are even formed without the parties living together. They both have their own houses, and only do some things together, like buying a summer house in Spain.

[jluker662]

21 hours ago, Qapla said:

I will start this comment by prefacing with this: In HS, one of my daughters took "Statistics". One of the things she learned is that you can make numbers say almost anything you want them to.

 

Now, onto my comment.

 

There may be some statistics that indicate that divorce is going down .... but, do those statistics also show that marriage rates are also going down? Keep in mind, you live in Stockholm, not the US. I am not basing my comments on a list of numbers someone has decided prove a certain point. I am talking about what I see on a daily basis, since I live in the US.

 

When people simply move in together and "call" themselves "husband and wife", they do no need to divorce to split apart - they just move out from each other. With less people getting married before having a "family", of course there could be less divorces.

 

That does not mean that there are less people breaking families apart, it just means there are less people doing it legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, back to the topic.....

 

McDonalds today does not taste anything like they did back in the 1960's

 

I can second this. Most of the employees where I work don't seem to get married. They "live together" till inconvenient or they find something "better". Years back it was a lot less socially acceptable to be just "living together", so more people got married and then divorced when something "better" came along. Now it's so much better.....(inject a generous amount of sarcasm here)

 

Anyway, back to the actual thread. I noticed the movie/documentary on Netflix and read the synopsis, but thought the movie just oozed greed and corruption. And that was without knowing the details of the guy stealing the idea from someone else. These types of stories damage my calm. I usually avoid movies that have too greed, racism, hate, and just plain ignorance in them, not because I'm holier than thou but because they rile me up and remind me of all the reasons this world is just about ready for a good cleaning. Reminds me of Habakkuk chapter 1, especially verses 2-4, and 13. "How long, O Jehovah??

[minister159]