Mac Book Air or Pro

[Fallbrookian]

I want a laptop for zoom meetings mostly and looking at the Apple Macbook Air or Pro.  Does anyone have either of these laptops and how do you like it? 

Thanks.

[friendlyone]

My son in law has the Pro Version, he's a real Apple lover though. I do have the ipad which I like, but to be honest I find Windows machines easier for me and I use Windows laptop and desktop.

 

I suppose it depends what you want to use it for, is it worth spending the extra money for the Pro if you don't really need the extra features?

 

 

[jwhess]

Will you be using the device for other theocratic uses?  Remember the JW Library app is not made for use on a Mac.

[Lewis]

I have IPad Pro and JW Library App works fine on it for me. Does it work differently for a MacBook for JW Library App?

Edited September 11, 2020 by Lewis

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Lewis said:

I have IPad Pro and JW Library App works fine on it for me. Does it work differently for a MacBook for JW Library App?

IOS and MacOS are different operating systems.  The JW Library app is not designed to work with MacOS.  There have been some people who try to make it work with various 'simulators" or "virtual machines"  I do not know how successful they were.

[Fallbrookian]

I mainly want the laptop for zoom meetings and JW Library and want a good reliable product that will last.     

[Myew]

5 hours ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

I mainly want the laptop for zoom meetings and JW Library and want a good reliable product that will last.

So, not a $1000 Macbook with awful cameras that people hate and can't run JW Library? 😉 Macbooks are known to have poor cooling (the heatsink isn't even connected to the fan!) and get so hot (in some cases around 90-100c) that the CPU has to thermal throttle (slow down) in order to prevent it from damage, or the fan runs very loud constantly with apps like Zoom. This can kill it. Also, they are less user friendly when it comes to repair or upgrades. https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/2020-macbook-air-problems-3788127/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSgi2deRivc

Sadly, now is the worst time to buy computers. I do not have personal experience with Macbooks in terms of longevity, but any laptop that is properly designed and maintained (don't let it get clogged with dust, don't spill, don't drop) should last you at least 5 years, or even until the storage medium fails. I recently helped someone to buy and set up the most popular Acer Windows laptops @ $350 after many comparisons and debate with similiar powerful-but-budget-oriented-options. Unfortunately many of these previously $300 best value tier laptops are now going for over $400, or you just have to buy ones with higher tier components even if you don't need them. They are constantly out of stock and prices are always rising. This model has a beautiful 1080p IPS screen, a spare SSD hard drive slot for more storage if needed later and upgradeable RAM in the rare chance that you need that. You will want at least a 15" screen or display out to another monitor if you plan to run Zoom and JW Library side by side at the same time. https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Display-Graphics-Keyboard-A515-43-R19L/dp/B07RF1XD36/

If you only need an Android tablet that can run JW Library and Zoom, there's the Amazon Fire HD 10 which will surely go on sale for $100 on Amazon Prime Day and Black Friday/Cyber Monday. You can pretty easily mirror it wirelessly to any modern smart TV or Roku/Amazon box too. https://www.amazon.com/Fire-HD-10/dp/B07K1RZWMC

I can make some recommendations if you want a high end professional laptop, but they're generally overkill just for Zoom.

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Myew

[New World Explorer]

I have built decent desktop PC for (Windows 10) "$ not cheap" to run my 4K video editing software - works fine so far. 

Could not get anything near the specs from Apple products for the price. 

 

Conclusion: You will get better specified machine running windows 10. 

Unless you like how Apple software operates then go for it, but like I said windows 10 laptop or PC presents better value, and in my opinion they are stable and reliable  enough. 

I would get something with SDD drive as a number one priority... I like stability and dependability of non-mechanical drives. They are much faster too. 

 

[Fallbrookian]

I appreciate all the information, thank you! Now I'm looking into the Lenovo Yoga  and Microsoft Surface. 

[jwhess]

2 hours ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

I appreciate all the information, thank you! Now I'm looking into the Lenovo Yoga  and Microsoft Surface. 

I have used a Surface tablet before.  I found it very nice (I like using Windows 10).  I will recommend that you get at least 4 GB of RAM and as large a hard rive  (or SSD storage) as you can afford.  The RAM memory makes this unit run much faster.

 

If you want this device to serve as a laptop computer as well, be sure to get the attachable keyboard that goes with it.

[Myew]

Both the Lenovo Yoga and Microsoft Surface lines come in smaller tablet and larger laptop form factors.

For smaller 10" Chromebook/Android 2-in-1 Tablets in this style, my favorite is the Lenovo Chromebook Duet. When my current 2015 8" tablet dies, I'll probably either get the duet or a cheaper Amazon Fire HD8+. Surface Go may feel a little more premium, but for twice the price, it's not really going to do more unless you need specific Windows apps. Modern Chromebooks are supported with updates for very many years as well, until 2028.
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/student-chromebooks/Lenovo-CT-X636/p/ZZICZCTCT1X

For larger laptops, I have the last generation Windows 2-in-1 Laptop Lenovo Flex 14" with Ryzen 3500U. It's more than powerful enough to handle hosting Zoom meetings as the A/V. 4 cores, 8 threads, 12GB of RAM and a 256GB NVME SSD. Downside? being that battery life drops from a few to a couple of hours if you're gaming or running something like Zoom untethered. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TWHYTSQ/ I managed to get it for about $400 during Black Friday, expect to see the best discounts of the year in October during the delayed Prime Day or in November during Black Friday. The current model with the 4500U is once again the best selling 2-in-1 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/13896609011/ref=zg_b_bs_13896609011_1 

I really can't recommend paying for something 'professional' tier if it's going to be for basic use. The vast majority of people can't get any functional use out of something beyond mid tier, around the $400-600 range, as long as you're not gaming or doing 4k video editing. Mid tier laptops hold the best resale value as well. You get more than enough headroom to do anything else very fast with a Ryzen 5 or Intel i5 processor, 8-16GB of RAM, and a 256GB NVME SSD. Get at least 1920x1080p (Full HD) resolution, and it will look much nicer if it's an IPS display rather than a TN. 15.6" screen size is quite nice to have for seeing many people on Zoom. I can recommend a couple of good curated laptop lists here to compare, with more powerful hardware in the $400-600 range than the Macbooks or Surface Pro/Laptops that cost twice as much. I typically gravitate towards gaming computers since they will naturally have the best performance, but business/professional oriented ones can have other useful features like the 2-in-1 touchscreen, stylus and more battery life.
https://laptopsdeals.net/2020/08/our-general-use-laptop-guide-list/
https://laptopsdeals.net/2020/09/our-gaming-laptops-guide-list/
 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Myew

[New World Explorer]

2 minutes ago, Myew said:

Get at least 1920x1080p (Full HD) resolution, and it will look much nicer if it's an IPS display rather than a TN.

I got 2K 27" Dell IPS - mercury free monitor, It looked like a overkill at the day of purchase, but mate.. I am happy I made this decision - detail and colours are fantastic, also being mercury free is a bonus!

 

I always say ..save money and buy best you can afford. 

[Myew]

I agree, if you can get something that is functionally or practically better, then it's good to invest in it, but there are points of diminishing returns. I just can't understand paying for what you won't actually use. There is very little to no noticeable benefit to getting anything above 1080p resolution on screens smaller than 24" or so. You literally can't see individual pixels that small from any reasonable distance. https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/460763-24-inch-is-the-1080p-sweetspot/ But you definitely don't want 720p on a modern device, that's just shooting yourself in the foot. Pretty much all of my devices are still 1080p or 1200p. Rather, you will have a far better user experience with things in motion investing in higher refresh rates. Last year I got a phone with a 120hz 1440p display for around the same price most people spend on a basic lower end phone. Thankfully you can turn down the needless resolution to save battery life. 120 hz makes scrolling pages in apps like JW Library so much more fluid and easier to read. I also recently upgraded my desktop monitor to a 24" 1080p 144hz IPS display with good enough color coverage for $180. This was the best value monitor on the market, when it was in stock. Anything beyond this doesn't improve the user experience whatsoever.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WVN6CWT/ 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Myew

[jwhess]

If you have the option to go to a store that sells the devices and have them out on display, I really recommend to go and see one or more of these choices in person.  You can see the screen size, feel the weight or test the keyboard.  If you don't have any stores nearby or with COVID-19, maybe you do not have that option.

 

The points made above in the other comments (especially about the digital displays) are generally true.  But I have very poor eyesight.  So for me spending extra for a very usable view is essential.  Without an excellent display, the device does not meet my needs.

 

When I used to make and sell computers, I used to tell potential customers to be realistic in their budget and then by the best, most powerfully equipped unit that was in their budget. 

 

The devices have been made, shipped to warehouses & distribution points, sent to wholesalers & distributors and finally to the dealers.  It might be a year old (since manufacture) before your store got it.  Computer years are like the hypothetical "dog-years".  I always said a computer life was  10 years for every one in real time.  A two year old computer is like a 20-year old person (pretty useful). By the time it is 4 years old it has started mid-life crises.  A six year old computer is retired and heading for life-support.  So buy the best you can afford to make the device most useful over its lifetime.

 

However, if you are going to replace it every year or two (or you are sure Armageddon will come by 2021), just buy what works and get by....❤️

[Fallbrookian]

Thanks again for the information.  I should have also mentioned my husband would like to be able to use the flight simulator game on the laptop.  We did look at the Lenovo brand yesterday, but want to wait til the black Friday sales. My IPad seems to be hanging in there for zoom til then.  Really looking forward to a bigger screen!

[New World Explorer]

I have always preferred custom built PC over any laptop. (I do have travel laptop though)

I like the freedom of selecting parts that I want in my computer.

Also screen  on the laptop is so "tiny" in comparison to the quality and SIZE monitor you can buy to accompany PC  (for example https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Monitors/25plus-inch/75802-U3219Q?gclid=Cj0KCQjwqfz6BRD8ARIsAIXQCf3sjeRAg5PDYPN-5TB3tZ0hqSy96-yHXCqOOKQ88Btr1s8SX8BPGu4aAjxoEALw_wcB)

 

The only thing with PC is "stationary position limitation" 

But I have study and (computer room) designated for that purpose. 

Yes, PC with good monitor can be expensive ...but hey...it's all about choices and preferences isn't? 

 

[New World Explorer]

4 hours ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

I should have also mentioned my husband would like to be able to use the flight simulator game on the laptop.

Be prepared for high-end specifications. 

Same applies to Planet Zoo

[Old]

5 hours ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

Thanks again for the information.  I should have also mentioned my husband would like to be able to use the flight simulator game on the laptop.  We did look at the Lenovo brand yesterday, but want to wait til the black Friday sales. My IPad seems to be hanging in there for zoom til then.  Really looking forward to a bigger screen!

Is your husband a pilot or just a flying aficionado? I used FlightSim until Windows 10 came along and it was not at that time compatable. If this old computer quits I too want get one for Fligh Sim.

[Fallbrookian]

My husband is a 'flying aficionado' and we currently have flight simulator,  he uses it on our desk top pc, but he wants the new flight simulator that is supposed to be coming out soon and our current pc does not have enough horsepower to handle the new one. The laptops we were looking at would be good for gaming as well.

[Myew]

6 hours ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

my husband would like to be able to use the flight simulator game on the laptop

Literally one of the most CPU and GPU demanding titles there is... which doesn't come cheap, cool or quiet on a laptop. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 came out a couple of weeks ago, and it requires Windows. CPU and Graphics will always be slower on mobile vs desktop due to power and cooling restraints, even if they're the same model name. You might have to apply some graphical tweaks to get it to run well on anything lower than $1000 tier. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W79EFVb_Vo) But I digress.

In that case, you probably would be happiest with the Acer Nitro 5, specifically the models with the 9th generation Intel i7 CPU and the RTX 2060 GPU. There are 15" and 17" versions. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08777BH1B/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087RSQGSV/ Here's a recent review of it.

Edit: Oh, and it has an available PCIe M.2 SSD or SSD hard drive bay.. one of which you will need to fill seeing as Microsoft Flight Sim is around 200GB and the OS drive is 256GB.
Edit more: Or rather, spend even more and get the slightly newer model with the 10th Gen i7 and 512GB NVME rather than buying and installing one. This is the top selling serious CPU/GPU gaming laptop on Amazon for a reason. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08842D7JS/

I just can't recommend anything less than a high end CPU and a GTX 1660 Ti or RTX 2060 GPU for Flight Sim. It's very processing intensive due to the real time weather and whatnot.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Myew

[Myew]

2 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

I have always preferred custom built PC over any laptop. (I do have travel laptop though)

Also screen  on the laptop is so "tiny" in comparison to the quality and SIZE monitor you can buy to accompany PC

The only thing with PC is "stationary position limitation" 

I prefer my desktop by far as well, personally I like to have a high powered desktop tower and a lower cost laptop. Plus, it's very easy to stream the tower's desktop to any phone, tablet or laptop over WiFI. But that's not what they're looking for. Most people don't need the complexity and just want one machine. Adding to that, it's very easy to plug external monitors or a full blown dock with keyboard and mouse into a laptop if you need to use it that way for things like color critical work. You can turn a laptop into a functional desktop with one USB-C or Thunderbolt cable.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Myew

[Old]

Quote:  Literally one of the most CPU and GPU demanding titles there is... which doesn't come cheap, cool or quiet on a laptop. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 came out a couple of weeks ago, and it requires Windows. CPU and Graphics will always be slower on mobile vs desktop due to power and cooling restraints, even if they're the same model name. You might have to apply some graphical tweaks to get it to run well on anything lower than $1000 tier. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W79EFVb_Vo) But I digress.

In that case, you probably would be happiest with the Acer Nitro 5, specifically the models with the 9th generation Intel i7 CPU and the RTX 2060 GPU. There are 15" and 17" versions. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08777BH1B/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087RSQGSV/ Here's a recent review of it.

Edit: Oh, and it has an available PCIe M.2 SSD or SSD hard drive bay.. one of which you will need to fill seeing as Microsoft Flight Sim is around 200GB and the OS drive is 256GB.
Edit more: Or rather, spend even more and get the slightly newer model with the 10th Gen i7 and 512GB NVME rather than buying and installing one. This is the top selling serious CPU/GPU gaming laptop on Amazon for a reason. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08842D7JS/

Do you have a reccomendatio for some one living on social security.

 

It is very easy, even simplistic to reccomend the top of the line, I knew someone would quickly jump on this band wagon.

When the little sister across town asks me what the 'best' car for her woud be I always suggest the hi-level BMWs, can't miss with that. 

[Myew]

1 hour ago, Old said:

Do you have a reccomendatio for some one living on social security.

2 hours ago, Myew said:

You might have to apply some graphical tweaks to get it to run well on anything lower than $1000 tier. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W79EFVb_Vo)

That depends on the individual budget, if you have more feedback after reading this I might be able to recommend something passable. I live on social security, but I keep my expenses very low and have built up my computers over many years, and have resold or donated older hardware. If you see the video I linked above, he used several .ini tweaks to lower the graphics settings down beyond the lowest on a desktop Ryzen 3 3200G APU, which is a CPU with onboard graphics decent enough for most lower end games at 720p 30-60 FPS. That chip in a desktop is a fair bit more powerful than my Ryzen 5 3500U APU in my laptop, since the 3500U only runs at 15 Watts but the 3200G runs at 65W. But even lowered beyond the in-game settings and not being able to see anything, it really struggles to maintain 30 frames. Building a basic desktop like that with onboard graphics costs $300-400. To have an immersive experience with at least 30 FPS solid and hopefully a fair bit more of overhead, maybe even up to 60 FPS on lower settings, you will want a mid range CPU and a good lower end GPU in a desktop or a higher power CPU and mid range GPU in a laptop. Either way you're looking at around $700-800 minimum, not including Windows or a monitor or anything else if building your own desktop, so you'll probably want a prebuilt. From some of the benchmarks I've watched, you can get around 50 FPS on medium settings with a Ryzen 5 3600 CPU (currently very low in stock and overpriced at about $200) and a $150 GTX 1650 GPU. That doesn't include $50 for a case, $50 for a PSU, $100 for a motherboard, $50 for RAM, $50-100 for storage, $100 for windows, those are lower estimates so add about $100 for taxes and whatnot. And since you're already spending that much, spending $50 more on a better GPU only adds about 10% total to the cost, and that's how you end up with a $1000 PC. I just can't see spending $500 on a PC or Laptop for Flight Sim to have a stuttered experience like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZz7TPCliE

There is one possible new solution, one that I would have never recommended before since I'm PC Master Race who loves building PCs and games that support mods...  but the upcoming $300 Xbox Series S console (I believe they're going to be released on November 10th?) is functionally a downclocked desktop Zen 2 Ryzen 7 3700 CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads, 10GB of RAM, 512GB of NVME storage, and the GPU is targeting 1440p @ up to 120 FPS. It should be able to play Flight Sim very well. It's $300 for what is essentially a $1000 PC, that comes with a controller and everything because apparently Microsoft has discovered how to magically print free money?🤔 Plus, you don't even have to buy the games anymore with the monthly Game Pass subscription, they're setting it up so that you can finance the entire console for $25? a month for 2 years and that includes all of the Game Pass games. On PC that already includes Microsoft Flight Sim and will likely come to the Series soon. The Xbox Series X will be $500 or $35/mo, for up to 3x the graphical performance. Between the pandemic shutting down factories, the computer shortages, the Xbox Series and PS5 taking up most of the new Zen 2 CPUs, 2020 is trying to kill gaming PCs. I can't say if keyboard and mouse will work with it on console, but they might even have set it up to allow that.

 

[Fallbrookian]

OK, you brothers have given me great information.  It's great to have all of you to bounce off questions and maybe learn something!  By the way it's great I'm considered a rookie member now and not a 'lurker'!!