Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[The Outcast]

39 minutes ago, Naturale said:

and then there are the possible long term side effects.  No-one has waited for long-term safety evaluations before going ahead.

Pandemrix 2010 in Sweden - a warning example

 

[McKay]

2 hours ago, Naturale said:

and then there are the possible long term side effects.  No-one has waited for long-term safety evaluations before going ahead.

There isn't time to wait around. Economies are crippling and people are starving and dying. Something needs to be done to stop the bleeding. They can always address the potential side effects later after lives have been saved.

 

This is like saying that the World Trade Center first responders shouldn't have gone in to save people because we didn't know the long term effects of them breathing in the fumes. But that wasn't possible. They had to run in and potentially endanger themselves to save lives. The same is true here. We don't have time to wait for the long term effects to become known. Millions more people could die while we wait.

[Shawnster]

I think I disagree with your analogy.  I like it, I just disagree with the placement of the parts.

 

I'd equal the harmful effects of breathing fumes to crippling the economy.  The First Responders risked their lives (risked the economy) in order to save as many lives as they could.

 

I would equate taking time to waiting before entering the first tower.  Look at all the First Responders who died when the second tower was hit and collapsed.  Those responders would have been in a better position to save lives had they waited until after the second tower fell before beginning rescue operations.

 

Of course, they had no way of knowing the second plane was coming, that both towers would be hit, or that both towers would fall.  That's the problem and, I agree, that highlights the situation we are in.  We don't know the future.  Do you, as a First Responder, immediately jump into action as you are trained even though you might be heading into a trap or danger?  Or do you take the slow approach and expect that the attack isn't over yet?

 

It's a tough call and I doubt there is a right answer.

[McKay]

The speed of the vaccine isn't a problem in this case. Traditionally the slowdown in the creation of a vaccine is funding. In this case, money was no object. Many nations pooled resources together. The companies could move as fast as they wanted. Even so, they did their due diligence and made sure all the trials were completed before they submitted for authorization. Even independent evaluators are impressed by how thorough things were done. It was an unprecedented set of circumstances the nations and pharmaceutical companies were dealing with. As for long term effects its a waiting game for sure. But think of how many lives will ultimately be saved by doing something NOW!

 

And if in the end mankind screws it all up? That's what God's Kingdom is for.

 

Also, consider this possibility. The taking of the vaccine may not be a "choice" for Bethelites. Their family heads may step in and demand it for the sake of the preaching work. Will those who have been so eager to follow Bethel's lock down measures be as willing to imitate Bethel now? We'll have to see. But I would be surprised if a requirement for resuming the ministry and meetings didn't come down to who took the vaccine. I think it's THAT important.

[Naturale]

6 minutes ago, McKay said:

Also, consider this possibility. The taking of the vaccine may not be a "choice" for Bethelites. Their family heads may step in and demand it for the sake of the preaching work. Will those who have been so eager to follow Bethel's lock down measures be as willing to imitate Bethel now? We'll have to see. But I would be surprised if a requirement for resuming the ministry and meetings didn't come down to who took the vaccine. I think it's THAT important.

Seriously you believe that ???

[Naturale]

12 minutes ago, McKay said:

 

Also, consider this possibility. The taking of the vaccine may not be a "choice" for Bethelites. Their family heads may step in and demand it for the sake of the preaching work. Will those who have been so eager to follow Bethel's lock down measures be as willing to imitate Bethel now? We'll have to see. But I would be surprised if a requirement for resuming the ministry and meetings didn't come down to who took the vaccine. I think it's THAT important.

And what will Bethel do with those who have allergies and auto-immune diseases who must not have vaccines?

[McKay]

3 minutes ago, Naturale said:

And what will Bethel do with those who have allergies and auto-immune diseases who must not have vaccines?

Bethel can do what it wants with its family. That's not for us to judge. I have a chronic health condition that would strain Bethel's resources. Do you think I'd be accepted? The same MAY apply to those unable to take the vaccine. What's most important is the continuation of the preaching work.

[Lance]

Well here is the reality...

The cure/ treatment will have side effects...short term side effects minimal

long term unknown.

 

The disease will and does have short term side effects...

the serious known ones so far are death, lung issues, brain issues, heart issues, circulatory issues.

Semi short term debilitating for some.. others recover.

long term unknown.

 

So for many people it is choose your side effects carefully they may be with you for the rest of your life...

Edited December 9, 2020 by Lance

[Naturale]

Our organisation makes it very clear that vaccines are a personal choice.

[Lance]

That is true...

“Choose your side effects carefully...”

That is totally  a personal choice... we are all free moral decision makers.

[blue-jay]

2 minutes ago, Naturale said:

Our organisation makes it very clear that vaccines are a personal choice.

Exactly.

No one usually cares who takes the flu vaccine.

And every flu  season we have loads of the friends coming to the hall sick, coughing and sniffling around our elderly ones and babies and making others sick. 

Still, no one mentions the flu vaccine even though many die of the flu each year. Why would this situation be different? Taking the vaccine is a personal decision. No one should be pressured. 

 

[AH173]

Getting a little hot in here. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by AH173

[McKay]

3 minutes ago, blue-jay said:

Exactly.

No one usually cares who takes the flu vaccine.

And every flu  season we have loads of the friends coming to the hall sick, coughing and sniffling around our elderly ones and babies and making others sick. 

Still, no one mentions the flu vaccine even though many die of the flu each year. Why would this situation be different? Taking the vaccine is a personal decision. No one should be pressured. 

 

I think there's a difference here. This pandemic has effectively shut down our normal routine of gathering and preaching. Imagine if no Witnesses took the vaccine because reasons. Would we ever get back to normal that way? Or would Covid then just run rampant throughout our community?

[Allabord4Jah]

NPR News December 9, 2020

 

Coronavirus Updates

U.K. Regulators Tell People With Severe Allergies Not To Get Vaccine

[AH173]

2 minutes ago, Allabord4Jah said:

NPR News December 9, 2020

 

Coronavirus Updates

U.K. Regulators Tell People With Severe Allergies Not To Get Vaccine

I am hoping the other vaccines from other providers will not have the same allergic reactions like the 1st one in use for USA and Europe area. 

[Naturale]

19 minutes ago, Lance said:

That is true...

“Choose your side effects carefully...”

That is totally  a personal choice... we are all free moral decision makers.

As for the Covid virus the vast  majority do not get lingering side-effects.  it is people with weakened immune systems, underlying medical conditions who are at increased risk for severe illness and death.  A person with a completely healthy immune system recovers without problems. I had covid as a person with a healthy immune system, no lingering problems. My family member in his 90's had covid, also with a healthy immune system, not overweight, not on meds etc and so recovered well and didn't have lingering problems either.  Some people seem to think that everyone has problems afterwards but that is completely false information.  

There is more evidence emerging recently that natural immunity will be the case for those who have recovered from covid.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Naturale

[Hope]

6 minutes ago, Allabord4Jah said:

NPR News December 9, 2020

 

Coronavirus Updates

U.K. Regulators Tell People With Severe Allergies Not To Get Vaccine

I'm happy I have no allergies 😬

[Shawnster]

42 minutes ago, Naturale said:

Our organisation makes it very clear that vaccines are a personal choice.

True.  However, in the United States vaccines are required in order to visit certain countries.  Anyone desiring to be used in a capacity that would send them to one of those countries would need to be vaccinated.  Otherwise, they can't get a travel visa to those countries.  So, want to work as an international volunteer and build Kingdom Halls in foreign countries?  Want to be used to deliver convention parts or other talks in foreign countries?  Want to be a missionary and serve in a foreign country?  You'll need to be vaccinated in order to acquire a travel visa to visit one of those countries.

 

And it might be likely that all countries will require vaccination before a foreigner can visit their country.  

1 hour ago, McKay said:

But I would be surprised if a requirement for resuming the ministry and meetings didn't come down to who took the vaccine. I think it's THAT important.

I don't believe the Governing Body has the scriptural authority to go this far.  However, as I said above, vaccines may be required in order to open doors to certain forms of sacred service. 

[Lee49]

"every flu  season we have loads of the friends coming to the hall sick, coughing and sniffling around our elderly ones and babies and making others sick."

  This is a true statement, however I do believe in the future whenever we do get back to the physical meetings, we will get plenty of updates to help us make the right decisions to avoid getting others sick as well as most will still be able to call in for audio to listen. This virus is a real wake up call for us all, plus maybe even wear mask for awhile and hand sanitizer and no touching/shaking hands!

•  

[Shawnster]

[CHecker]

@Naturale  person with a completely healthy immune system recovers without problems

 

This isn't a true statement. In reading many different articles, including one from CDC, the information being put out is one based on caution because even the very young, or young adults or exceptionally healthy people are dying from it.

Then we have the serious advice from our brothers. If it weren't so bad we wouldn't be following the slave's advice so closely. 

I think we need to err on the side of caution in our opinions as to something being "not that serious". The GB is not agreeing with that opinion.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

 

[cricket246]

My main concern is maintaining my integrity to Jehovah. ❤️ if the state governments do make the vaccines mandatory, I they give the option of vaccine without actual blood components (like the ones announced that are blood free), otherwise each of us will have a tough decision to make, just like Job did. ❤️ 

[Qapla]

2 hours ago, Naturale said:

As for the Covid virus the vast  majority do not get lingering side-effects.

 

How do we know this?

 

It has been mentioned that, since the vaccine(s) are sp new - no one knows what the "long term" side effects may be ... and that seems to be one of the reasons for resistance to take any vaccine.

 

The same can be said of C-19. No one knows what the "long-term" side effects of having the virus may be ... it hasn't been around long enough for anyone to have been recovered "long term".

 

A good example is chickenpox. For years most thought it was just a childhood disease and "kids got over it". It's not all that serious. Tell that to people who have experienced shingles!

 

Who would have known that chickenpox would have such long term effects - that is, until the time required for long term effects to make themselves known had passed.

 

At the same time, other ailments do come ang go without long term effects. 

 

Since C-19 is so new - there has not been enough time for anyone to know what the long term effects may or may not be.

 

So, when the decision faces someone is between:

• take the vaccine and risk side effects
• don't take the vaccine and risk side effects

None of us should try to convince others that our view is the right one  . . . "For each one will carry his own load." (Galatians 6:5)

 

[McKay]

17 minutes ago, cricket246 said:

My main concern is maintaining my integrity to Jehovah. ❤️ if the state governments do make the vaccines mandatory, I they give the option of vaccine without actual blood components (like the ones announced that are blood free), otherwise each of us will have a tough decision to make, just like Job did. ❤️ 

Well if they give us the option then we already know the Pfizer one is free of blood components and fractions because the GB said so. However I doubt it will be mandated by law in the US. Of course there may be places you won't be able to go (concerts, sporting events) unless you get the vaccine. They're already discussing using smartphone apps as a passport to public events  to prove you've gotten the vaccine.

[Lance]

We all have choices to make .... there is no moral high ground here ..

For example my sister just got diagnosed with a very aggressive form of breast cancer ..

So she has choices to make..

1) Hope that the cancer goes into remission spontaneously... 

2) Seek out conventional western based treatment 

3) Seek out  experimental cutting edge immunotherapy 

4) Seek out a more holistic approach 

5) Seek out a more eastern approach 

6) A combination of some of the above or not at all

It all boils down to a cost/benefit analysis.. There is no moral high ground here.

 

She has choices to make ... fortunately one the choices she didn’t have to make is that she is not contagious..... and pass the cancer on to a person with comorbidity  issues...

 
The solutions set before us are not without risk ... we just have to sit down and personally decide what sits well with ourselves and our family.. no perfect choice here.