Two Dead in Shooting at Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom Hall in Colorado

[Shawnster]

Friends, if we want to discuss Witnesses owning firearms and hunting, please start a new topic.  This topic is about the sad news of the shooting in Colorado. 

 

 

[Tortuga]

Sometimes the news gets the facts twisted. This incident was on the local news in California and the newscaster said the woman killed the man before killing herself. So, it's difficult to expect that we will get accurate information from the news reports.

 

In actuality, we really don't need any more information than we already have. Let's just keep everyone in our prayers and leave it to Jehovah.

 

 

[Lewis]

1 hour ago, Brother Arellano said:

This is an answer I haven’t found yet. My brain has been jumping to conclusions all day. I am hoping that she had chosen to return to Jehovah, or at least seek the council of the BOE. 

 

I read in one news report that the wife was attending meetings “occasionally”. Maybe she went to the KH to attend and the husband was against it?

[Buttons]

1 hour ago, Lewis said:

 

I read in one news report that the wife was attending meetings “occasionally”. Maybe she went to the KH to attend and the husband was against it?

See post by Sister Carmen from New York.  Husband was not a witness.  He threw an explosive into the kingdom hall but it did not go  off.

[Brother Arellano]

41 minutes ago, Buttons said:

See post by Sister Carmen from New York.  Husband was not a witness.  He threw an explosive into the kingdom hall but it did not go  off.

Without knowing his identity we cannot know for certain. He did not act as a loyal servant of Jehovah for sure. But as history has shown us baptized meeting attending “Brothers” are very capable of shirking Jehovahs standards and committing atrocities. The article from a worldly publication simply infers he at one time was attending meetings. The world has a much lower bar than Jehovah. 
 

Edit: The Sherrelwood Congregation has not yet confirmed or denied the status of either the person. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Brother Arellano

[Lewis]

23 minutes ago, Buttons said:

See post by Sister Carmen from New York.  Husband was not a witness.  He threw an explosive into the kingdom hall but it did not go  off.

 

I wasn’t even contesting that, I was merely making a hypothetical thought why both were at the KH just before the meeting started.  As most reporting have stated that the wife and husband were former members and in another reporting stated the wife attended meetings “Occasionally”. I don't know more than what’s been reported.

[Qapla]

 

Special thanks to the Moderating Crew for combining the three separate threads that were started on this one topic.

 

[Doug]

6 hours ago, Tortuga said:

An interesting point in the Insight about Arms: "The fact that two swords were available among the disciples on the night of Jesus’ betrayal was not unusual for those times (Lu 22:38), and there is evidence that for Galileans in particular it was not uncommon to carry arms."

 

 

Let's continue:  "Let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one", would not indicate his disciples were about to enter into a hazardous life. Rather, he desired to have a sword available among his followers that night in order to demonstrate clearly that, though they would come into circumstances that could easily provoke armed resistance, he did not intend to resort to the sword, but would give himself up voluntarily. Thus when Peter did react and tried to put up armed resistance, lopping off the ear of Malchus, Jesus ordered him "Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword". More important, such attempted deliverance of Jesus would have failed, being completely contrary to Jehovah God's purpose. Later that day Jesus could plainly state to Pilate "If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought".

 

Another reference: "Caiaphas sent soldiers to arrest Jesus under the cover of night. Jesus was aware of this shameful strategy, so during his final meal with his apostles, he asked them to get some swords. Two would be sufficient to teach them a vital lesson. This powerful lesson was in harmony with what Jesus prayed about earlier that night - they must be no part of the world. Fighting injustice was something to be left to God."

 

So, Jesus did not ask his apostles to bring along swords "just in case".  He was literally driving home the point that they should not take up arms (weapons) to fight.

 

Jesus was not saying that we should never defend ourselves but, rather, that we should never strike offensively, that we should not allow ourselves to be provoked to take revenge.

Swords would not have been hard to acquire in that time and culture, but  they would have been used to defend against an animal or to open a bottle of beer.  

 

The Law permitted self-defense but restricted an individuals right to fight for his property. Bloodguilt came upon a person who, though catching a thief in the act of breaking into his home, killed the lawbreaker in the daytime. This was evidently because the thief could be identified and brought to justice. At night, however, it would be difficult to see what one was doing and to ascertain the intentions of an intruder. Therefore, the person killing an intruder in the dark was considered guiltless.

 

[Amygdala]

Questions From Readers

Should a Christian keep a gun, perhaps a handgun or a rifle, to protect himself from other humans?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402017484?q=own+a+gun&p=par

 

[Amygdala]

I posted the above QFR, as some, as even I would be, might be inclined to start protecting themselves after being around such a tragic situation at the KH. (Regardless if a gun or other firearm was used). We’re definitely in the last days.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Woanders

[Witness1970]

Early in the reporting I heard that it "looked" like a pipe bomb.  Later I heard that it was a Molotov Cocktail, and there was a fire.

 

OOPS, I just noticed there are 2 more pages.  

[Lewis]

5 hours ago, Witness1970 said:

Early in the reporting I heard that it "looked" like a pipe bomb.  Later I heard that it was a Molotov Cocktail, and there was a fire.

 

OOPS, I just noticed there are 2 more pages.  

 

According to this latest reporting, police are stating 3 bomb like devices.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thornton-colorado-jehovahs-witness-kingdom-hall-investigation/

 

The man threw three pipe bomb-like devices through a window of the hall, according to CBS Colorado. The bombs did not detonate, however, and only caused a small fire, CBS Colorado reported, adding that only one person was inside at the time and they were unharmed.

Neither the man nor his wife ever entered the house of worship, CBS Colorado reported. It was not clear if the two were working together or if the husband was acting alone and the wife was a victim, according to CBS Colorado.

[Luisabola]

Curiouser and curiouser

[Lee49]

Windows in a KH? I don't think  most halls have them, It's always been a thing people ask " why do Kingdom halls not have windows"?, that's a good reason why!

[Lewis]

18 minutes ago, Lee49 said:

Windows in a KH? I don't think  most halls have them, It's always been a thing people ask " why do Kingdom halls not have windows"?, that's a good reason why!

 

My current Kingdom Hall has windows but we are also gated. The Kingdom Halls I’ve been in the past that did not have windows were not gated/secured.

[Qapla]

As can be seen in this picture, our KH has windows and is not gated

 

I would say that most KH's I worked on with RBC/LDC did not have windows - but, that is not totally accurate as most Halls I've been in actually do have windows

 

Now, to get back on topic, I'm sure there will be many more news articles on this event - some with correct info and some with incorrect info ... as well as "info" from "well-meaning" JW's that will also include speculation and hear-say

 

 

[jwhess]

Before we put air-conditioning in every hall, we all had windows.  Now, some do and some don't.  During our last major remodel, we put 3 windows down each side.

[CouveBro]

Saw this this afternoon. Seems there isn't a lot of info yet. Just glad none of the friends were involved or injured! 

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZ2h0dHBzOi8va2R2ci5jb20vbmV3cy9sb2NhbC8zLXBpcGUtYm9tYi1zdHlsZS1kZXZpY2VzLXRocm93bi1pbnRvLXdvcnNoaXAtY2VudGVyLWJlZm9yZS1tdXJkZXItc3VpY2lkZS_SAWtodHRwczovL2tkdnIuY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvMy1waXBlLWJvbWItc3R5bGUtZGV2aWNlcy10aHJvd24taW50by13b3JzaGlwLWNlbnRlci1iZWZvcmUtbXVyZGVyLXN1aWNpZGUvYW1wLw?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

[CouveBro]

Sorry didn't see other post. I knew it would be reported. 

[Qapla]

That's OK - you were not the only one. There were a couple others that were merged with the active one. Hopefully, this post/thread will be merged with the active one, too.

 

 

[Tortuga]

11 minutes ago, Qapla said:

That's OK - you were not the only one. There were a couple others that were merged with the active one. Hopefully, this post/thread will be merged with the active one, too.

 

 

Let it be written, let it be done! 

[Tortuga]

11 hours ago, Luisabola said:

Curiouser and curiouser

So true, if Jehovah resurrects them*, it will be interesting to find out what really happened one day. It would be interesting to discover if he planned violence and she was trying to stop him. 

 

(* Standard caveat when discussing resurrections )

Edited December 28, 2022 by Tortuga

[Parale]

The Thornton Police Department have now released their "final news release regarding this incident":

 

https://twitter.com/ThorntonPolice

 

 

[Tortuga]

Wow, apparently disfellowshipped and working together on bombing the KH and a planned murder/suicide. 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

Thank you Paul. We are seeing how blackened hearts react, reflecting how satanic this world really is. The FDS have been getting us ready for these dark days to come. We know we have Jehovah’s support to get us through whatever will happen. Courage, Faith, love and trust..