2023 Governing Body Update #8 / BEARDS!!!

[Miss Bea]

17 hours ago, Old said:

There were two starter beards among appointed brothers at our Sunday afternoon meeting.

We had one brother, (sort of struggling, spiritually,) well, he had a beard. Does not  attend meetings regularly. 
I think that will be it. Our congregation tend to be a tad conservative.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Miss Bea
Interrupted

[Mike]

Personally, I gave the growing a beard thought about 1 minute of my ponderings ... then 1 Cor. 10:23 came to my mind, and I got on with my day.  To each his own, but the analysis of would it look good, might it be faddish, is it too long... or maybe too short is a distraction I don’t need right now. 

[jwhess]

I was meditating yesterday (on no particular subject), and I thought about past happenings.  How often have we heard a comment about being out shopping or doing some kind of "normal" activity and you glance up and see 2 or 3 people who are modestly dressed up and well groomed.  The feeling that we get is that these might be witnesses taking a break from cart work or some such activity.

 

We feel this way because of the way they dress and are groomed compared to the others at the coffee shop.  If we begin to modify our grooming and dress to be more like the world around us, we may not be able to instinctively tell.

 

I thought that was a loss (from my past perspective).

[Tortuga]

Current count of starter beards:

1 elder

3 MS 

[Parale]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

Personally, I gave the growing a beard thought about 1 minute of my ponderings ... then 1 Cor. 10:23 came to my mind, and I got on with my day.  To each his own, but the analysis of would it look good, might it be faddish, is it too long... or maybe too short is a distraction I don’t need right now. 

 

Which perhaps brings us around to Geoffrey Jackson's morning worship.... about his hat....

 

Geoffrey W. Jackson: “Do All Things for God’s Glory” (1 Cor. 10:31)

 

[Tortuga]

38 minutes ago, Mike said:

Personally, I gave the growing a beard thought about 1 minute of my ponderings ... then 1 Cor. 10:23 came to my mind, and I got on with my day.  To each his own, but the analysis of would it look good, might it be faddish, is it too long... or maybe too short is a distraction I don’t need right now. 

 

Yet here you are sharing that with us. Thanks! 

[Leonard Match Valid]

1 hour ago, Miss Bea said:

We had one brother, (sort of struggling, spiritually,) well, he had a beard. Does not  attend meetings regularly. 
I think that will be it. Our congregation tend to be a tad conservative.

Who knows if this decision by the Body is divinely provided to attract more and those who are weak can be strengthened by it?

Proverbs 25:11

Like trimmed beards on happy faces

It is the word spoken at the right time.

[EX-RedRob]

1 hour ago, Miss Bea said:

We had one brother, (sort of struggling, spiritually,) well, he had a beard. Does not  attend meetings regularly. 
I think that will be it. Our congregation tend to be a tad conservative.

And that is fine!  If people don't want to have one, that's okay.  Not everyone out and about in the world has one either, but when someone does want to have one, it's really nice that we have the option to do so!  Like anything, it will be a matter of trying to look nice.  

[Floyd]

This is what I have been wearing for about 34 years to meetings, service, assemblies, and conventions and even for parts on the convention. Nobody has ever said a word.

 

[MontRose]

A much needed update. Can't express my relief enough at not having to explain this one more time to a bible student or interested person. I've actually had casual conversations where it has come up.. so.. phew, ever so grateful to Jehovah for clearing things up in due time.  

[Tortuga]

22 minutes ago, Floyd said:

This is what I have been wearing for about 34 years to meetings, service, assemblies, and conventions and even for parts on the convention. Nobody has ever said a word.

 

I found some nice shoes at a restaurant supply that are designed to be comfortable all day and safe for slick surfaces.

[Jwanon]

Quote

We had one brother, (sort of struggling, spiritually,) well, he had a beard. Does not  attend meetings regularly. 
I think that will be it. Our congregation tend to be a tad conservative.

 

Please tell me if I'm wrong here, if I'm being judgmental and have to correct my point of view, but...I don't feel like someone who doesn't attend the meetings anymore simply because they wanted to grow a beard was in the truth in the first place...

 

All that tells me is that they loved their beard more than Jehovah. I don't think it's normal for someone to grow weak in the faith just because they were discouraged by their congregation to not have a beard.

 

That's how I personnally feel, please feel free to disagree with me if you believe I don't have the right approach to this

 

[Dolce vita]

18 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Please tell me if I'm wrong here, if I'm being judgmental and have to correct my point of view, but...I don't feel like someone who doesn't attend the meetings anymore simply because they wanted to grow a beard was in the truth in the first place...

 

All that tells me is that they loved their beard more than Jehovah. I don't think it's normal for someone to grow weak in the faith just because they were discouraged by their congregation to not have a beard.

 

That's how I personnally feel, please feel free to disagree with me if you believe I don't have the right approach to this

 

Rom 8:38-39
Paul should have added 'beard'

[MontRose]

15 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Please tell me if I'm wrong here, if I'm being judgmental and have to correct my point of view, but...I don't feel like someone who doesn't attend the meetings anymore simply because they wanted to grow a beard was in the truth in the first place...

 

All that tells me is that they loved their beard more than Jehovah. I don't think it's normal for someone to grow weak in the faith just because they were discouraged by their congregation to not have a beard.

 

That's how I personnally feel, please feel free to disagree with me if you believe I don't have the right approach to this

 

 

I remember on several occasions feeling "judged" for even the slightest facial hair that some of my elders (across different places) saw.. and when I was younger this stumbled me a few times. I thought, "how could they be so critical about something that is open to interpretation?". I was indirectly called a rebel or made to feel bad about it. And I saw how others judged inactive ones with beards, or active brothers with beards. It just seemed bizarre to me.. Until..

 

My grandfather was a lawyer, and he went through school / work in the time when some people of the world thought it was "unfit" for certain people to wear beards.. law firms would enforce no beards, etc. So I understood that there were probably groups of people in the western world that thought beards were not something a true Christian would want to be associated with.. but.. still, to me that didn't validate someone's privileges hanging on the matter. In either case, I always reminded myself to just be humble and wait for things to be set straight.

 

The only thing that bothered me was having to explain this to non witnesses.. it was honestly hard, when talking to young people who don't understand the concept of how a well groomed man (with facial hair) could possibly mean someone is unfit to serve in the congregation. In my experience, only people pre-90s understood this.

 

So indeed, if someone stumbled so badly over the beard, I think they had other issues weakening their faith.. as this shouldn't be such a big deal so as to become inactive. Still, I feel like perhaps brother Lett could have been more empathetic.. I'm sure this was a big deal for a lot of people, over many decades.

[Gimestr]

So I found something.  

 

Leviticus 19:27 
“‘You must not shave* the hair on the side of your head* or disfigure the edges of your beard.

 

The note for "the hair on the side of your head*" says *Or “cut your ­sidelocks.”

 

Does this mean no for goatees?

Edited December 19, 2023 by Gimestr

[Adam!]

Some have said that following this decision, the GB should now consider whether sisters should wear pants (trousers).

 

I'm a little unsure about this. Scriptural principles that come to mind are Deut 22:5 and 1 John 2:15

[Lee49]

Next years look ?  🤔

 

[coolbrz731]

I think ties should be addressed next.  Visiting Hawaii and going out in service with them ruined me.  

[Jwanon]

54 minutes ago, MontRose said:

So indeed, if someone stumbled so badly over the beard, I think they had other issues weakening their faith.. as this shouldn't be such a big deal so as to become inactive.

 

Yeah that's exactly what I think

[Sepie93]

 
It is expressly forbidden when on a Bethel tour. See the document "Dress & Grooming for Visitors Touring Bethel." The latest date is 2016. 

True, but this is also a local thing.

Ofcourse wearing denim for the tour itself might be weird,
But this same brochure also "forbids" denim pants when visiting friends who serve at Bethel.

I'm close to the branch and many, many bethelites in the Netherlands wear denim pants in free time. Also when visiting friends at Bethel, casual denim clothes are not a problem.

One time, when I came from work, I visited my friend at Bethel, and asked him: but can I come? I'm wearing a denim pants.
He started laughing and told me in a sarcastic way: if your conscious bothers you.... I will not prevent you from changing..... But I will not change!

Here, denim pants are not considered weird or too casual. Depending on the color or style, it's actually considered quite formal.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ELE-L29 met Tapatalk

[puddum_queen]

In some extreme cases those who chose to have a beard were called apostate and treated like they were df’d even if they had to have a beard for health/skin reasons. Some Pharisee like brothers have such a loathing for beards that even if a brother simply supported a brothers personal decision to have a beard it was cause for them to be attacked. It’s hard to imagine that happening in Jehovah’s organization but if you expect love to be among Jehovah’s people and you are treated with hatred, it can be a stumbling block. I know because it happened in my family. 
 

 

15 minutes ago, coolbrz731 said:

I think ties should be addressed next.  Visiting Hawaii and going out in service with them ruined me.  

 

[Ishaya]

4 hours ago, jwhess said:

 If we begin to modify our grooming and dress to be more like the world around us, we may not be able to instinctively tell.

 

I thought that was a loss (from my past perspective).

 

Bro Hess,I'm just thinking,maybe this disguise (or cover) with beard might be what we need to survive the attack of Gog of Magog during GT.

 

If the coalition forces will find it difficult to easily tell us apart from the nonbelievers because of similar appearances with beard,then it will certainly be a good disguise.

 

Obviously the coalition forces will be particularly interested about arresting the men(brothers),because the men take the lead in worship.

So brothers must be able to evade arrest by all means so that Jehovah's worship can continue even during GT.

 

We are not yet sure how much difficulties we will experience in the Great Tribulation but I am sure that prior to that time,Jehovah will use his organization to help us prepare adequately to survive the hardship and harassments that will come,this approval of beard for Christian men might be one such preparation.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Ishaya

[Pabo]

6 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

If the coalition forces will find it difficult to easily tell us apart from the nonbelievers because of similar appearances with beard,then it will certainly be a good disguise.

 

Or we can learn how to do face masks

 

 

 

 

[Dolce vita]

1 hour ago, MontRose said:

 

Je me souviens à plusieurs reprises de m'être senti "jugé" pour la moindre pilosité faciale que certains de mes aînés (à différents endroits) ont vue... et quand j'étais plus jeune, cela m'a trébuché à plusieurs reprises. Je me suis demandé : « Comment peuvent-ils être aussi critiques à l'égard de quelque chose qui est sujet à interprétation ? ». On m'a indirectement traité de rebelle ou on m'a fait me sentir mal à ce sujet. Et j’ai vu comment d’autres jugeaient les inactifs portant la barbe, ou les frères actifs portant la barbe. Cela me paraissait bizarre... Jusqu'à...

 

Mon grand-père était avocat, et il a fait ses études/travail à l'époque où certaines personnes dans le monde pensaient qu'il était « inapte » pour certaines personnes de porter la barbe. Les cabinets d'avocats imposaient de ne pas porter de barbe, etc. J'ai donc compris qu'il Il y avait probablement des groupes de personnes dans le monde occidental qui pensaient que la barbe n'était pas quelque chose à laquelle un vrai chrétien voudrait être associé... mais... quand même, pour moi, cela ne validait pas les privilèges de quelqu'un en la matière. Dans les deux cas, je me suis toujours rappelé d’être humble et d’attendre que les choses soient réglées.

 

La seule chose qui me dérangeait, c'était de devoir expliquer cela à des non-témoins. Honnêtement, c'était difficile de parler à des jeunes qui ne comprennent pas le concept selon lequel un homme bien soigné (avec des poils sur le visage) pourrait signifier que quelqu'un n'est pas en forme. pour servir dans la congrégation. D’après mon expérience, seules les personnes d’avant les années 90 l’ont compris.

 

Donc en effet, si quelqu'un trébuchait si gravement sur la barbe, je pense qu'il avait d'autres problèmes qui affaiblissaient sa foi... car cela ne devrait pas être si grave pour devenir inactif. Pourtant, j'ai l'impression que frère Lett aurait peut-être pu être plus empathique. Je suis sûr que cela a été un gros problème pour beaucoup de gens, pendant de nombreuses décennies.

If I may, Daniel, even though I hear what you are expressing and which seems right to me : I believe that our tender brother Lett could have mentioned any other subject, his distanced mood would have been the same due to of his condition. He looked so tired and sore... Heart sinking. Furthermore, this is in any case what I personally understood, I believe that it was not a question here, for Brother Lett and the whole of GB, of promoting beards, but rather of preventing the beard to become such a divisive subject among us that our unity could be threatened. I have much admiration and brotherly love for my brothers who waited for Jehovah to illuminate the point, according to his will and in his time. You are truly to be congratulated!❤️

[LeolaRootStew]

6 hours ago, RedRob said:

I had a lovely suppah and all I said was that piece of halibut was good enough for...!!!

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT SAYING IT!!