US Election Outcome

[LeolaRootStew]

8 hours ago, Ostria said:

(sighs) Fine (Dusts off tin foil hat) Hello old friend.  If this is too spicy feel free to remove it.

 

So, being a formal conspiracy theorist, my FULL thoughts on the whole election.

 

8 hours ago, Ostria said:

I guess its more of a "Yeah i'm more paranoid and untrusting of the government now, but i just dont care anymore" vs "Yeah i dont trust the government and i care"

 

Let's me start by saying we all know that this system is run by Satan, we just have different ideas of how that plays out. I love any/all theories about how this system will end and am not offended by "conspiracy theories" (any narrative not pushed by the mainstream news). 

 

That being said, the dangerous thing about conspiracy theories is that when someone gives any pushback to something we believe in, it can trigger an instinct to prove our perspective (I'm not saying you did this). This is a trap that moves conspiracies from a spectator sport to a lifestyle you must convert someone into. As a Witness, that is not necessary; we have the perspective to be able to step back and not let them affect our peace or our unity (I'm glad to see you've made that transition).

 

Covid was a great example; whether people were for or against vaccines there was the belief that the other perspective was risking lives (either the vaccine would kill you or not getting vaccinated would kill you). No matter your perspective, we had to acknowledge that each of us has a Biblically-trained conscience and had a right to make our own medical choices. No matter the result, we needed to respect our Brother's right to make that choice. Because we believe in the resurrection we can maintain our unity even if we believe someone's choices will end their life. 

 

And that's why I don't get bothered by hearing conspiracies and I don't try to convince other JW's one way or the other. At the end of the day, 1) no conspiracy will stop Jehovah's will, and 2) no consequence is too big for Jehovah to reverse. As others have said, none of these petty squabbles will matter to us in 100 years. 💜

Edited October 23 by LeolaRootStew

[Tortuga]

45 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

That being said, the dangerous thing about conspiracy theories is that when someone gives any pushback to something we believe in, it can trigger an instinct to prove our perspective (I'm not saying you did this). This is a trap that moves conspiracies from a spectator sport to a lifestyle you must convert someone into.

I think there is another danger to believing in conspiracy theories that we should be aware of. When we condition our mind to believing that alternate truths exist and we start looking for alternate truths, we may be falling into the same trap that Eve fell into. If we approach every fact with a "is it really so" thinking process, we are conditioning our minds to not believe the truth when we hear it. Now some people call that critical thinking, and that can help us filter through the garbage and find the truth. So, the danger is knowing when to stop looking for alternate truths and, in my opinion, believing in conspiracy theories can make that more difficult. 

[Salamander]

overall Two wings same bird for the USA government. Nothing will be ever resolve both party will never resolved with anything in this wicked system of things. Only have interest for themselves to not resolved world issue. Even they did manage to resolved center issue, it still be mere illusion with all corruption that lied in the background. They still be issue no matter what  human do. That's why our organization as Jehovah Witness is alot better condition than governments that is within this world. Jehovah God will still help us while we in this wicked system of things. We need to keep our mindset optimistic not for world future but the God Government that will go beyond human imagination. What we can think of new world just mere fraction what we could think of. While in this world we can be optimistic for spiritual paradise we have within congregation. I do apologize the analogy i trying describe spiritual paradise. I think i would need go back on that watchtower we had about it. sorry i am yapping away my opinion lol

[LeolaRootStew]

54 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

I think there is another danger to believing in conspiracy theories that we should be aware of. When we condition our mind to believing that alternate truths exist and we start looking for alternate truths, we may be falling into the same trap that Eve fell into. If we approach every fact with a "is it really so" thinking process, we are conditioning our minds to not believe the truth when we hear it. Now some people call that critical thinking, and that can help us filter through the garbage and find the truth. So, the danger is knowing when to stop looking for alternate truths and, in my opinion, believing in conspiracy theories can make that more difficult. 

 

Yes, but there is a big difference between questioning God and questioning the world. I very much want to condition my mind to question everything Satan's system tells me, which includes the cry of P&S. 

 

As far as the world, Satan IS conspiring against us ("disguising himself as an angel of light"). Conspiracies do exist. Period. Truth also exists - not alternative truths, but alternative sources that reveal the truth. For instance, the world teaches evolution, but we believe an alternative because we have a trustworthy source. 

 

I condition myself to know the truth by studying the correct source (the Bible). There is no "correct" source of information in Satan's world - it's all of demonic origin, and thus on a sliding scale of dishonesty. At the end of the day we all have to choose where we will get information from and hope it's accurate enough that we don't get hurt. 

 

P.S.

"Alternative" is almost a pejorative to attack people who seek information from anything other than "official sources", but I'll remind you that four out of five doctors used to recommend Camel cigarettes for pregnant women. If I had questioned the benefits of a smoking Mother back then I would have been labelled a conspiracy theorist. But like I said before, even if we believe something could lead to the death of a Brother or Sister, we have to let them make their own decisions. So just believing conspiracies (many of which are true) does not mean you are in spiritual danger. Respect free will and it will probably be fine.

 

Edited October 23 by LeolaRootStew

[Dustparticle]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

I think there is another danger to believing in conspiracy theories that we should be aware of. When we condition our mind to believing that alternate truths exist and we start looking for alternate truths, we may be falling into the same trap that Eve fell into. If we approach every fact with a "is it really so" thinking process, we are conditioning our minds to not believe the truth when we hear it. Now some people call that critical thinking, and that can help us filter through the garbage and find the truth. So, the danger is knowing when to stop looking for alternate truths and, in my opinion, believing in conspiracy theories can make that more difficult. 

True, I heard so much theories on 9-11-01 and JFK killing is pathetic. Even friends has caught up in it.

[LeolaRootStew]

10 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

True, I heard so much theories on 9-11-01 and JFK killing is pathetic. Even friends has caught up in it.

 

Yes, a majority of conspiracy theories simply don't matter and no Witness should become obsessed by worthless things that have no bearing on our daily lives, let alone Jehovah's plan. 

[Shawnster]

7 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

True, I heard so much theories on 9-11-01 and JFK killing is pathetic. Even friends has caught up in it.

 

And that is the problem. Getting caught up in these theories. Making them a point of active discussion and debate to the point one comes across as obsessed or proselytizing. These ones often and quite loudly promote lies and false or disproven information in an attempt to cause ones to accept this viewpoint. This, in turn, causes others to push back against the conspiracy theorist equally as loud and defensive. The end result is spending more time on this distraction of Satan than on being united in Jehovah's work. 

 

Which I believe is what @LeolaRootStew said above. 

 

 

[Doug]

The media is setting the stage for a period of chaos and confusion following the election on Nov 5.

 

Some reports suggest a lot of drama.  If any of that is true, how will we proceed with our message?   "The shrewd one ponders each step.  The stupid one is reckless and overconfident."  Pr. 14:15,16

 

Given these possibilities, without taking sides, I hope it will be a clean knock-out, an uncontestable landslide, so life can go on peacefully.

[computerwiz]

3 minutes ago, Doug said:

I hope it will be a clean knock-out, an uncontestable landslide, so life can go on peacefully.

 

I hope it will be whatever it has to be in order to bring about the Great Tribulation.  

 

In any case, we're in for a bumpy ride.

 

[vern]

One president got gas prices low.

 

But Christ will fix everything... Not just promise.

[Hope]

On 10/22/2024 at 11:05 AM, Tortuga said:

Isn't it refreshing to let go of that way of thinking?

It must be... who can stay so upset and suspicious all the time? 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Ostria]

14 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

True, I heard so much theories on 9-11-01 and JFK killing is pathetic. Even friends has caught up in it.

JFK files are supposed to be revealed in 2063, so everyone involved will be dead anyway

Edited October 23 by Ostria
spelling

[Dustparticle]

25 minutes ago, Ostria said:

JFK files are supposed to be revealed in 2063, so everyone involved will be dead anyway

 Might not. Do not forget the resurrection.

[Tortuga]

1 hour ago, vern said:

One president got gas prices low.

I think that is hilarious. When I was working in the oil industry it was a well-known fact that the government made more on each gallon of gasoline than the refinery did. 

 

But, that's another subject..

[Pjdriver]

21 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

No matter your perspective, we had to acknowledge that each of us has a Biblically-trained conscience and had a right to make our own medical choices. No matter the result, we needed to respect our Brother's right to make that choice.

I don’t think Sister Erin was saying each one doesn’t have the right to make that choice....but that government was not exactly honest about certain things.....For example Dr. Falchi said 6 feet separation. Viruses can travel much further than that.  Very many of the mask worn by the public were not very effective. Seems it was more like a security blanket. Not super practical. 

For those who realized that....it seemed to be heavily based on emotion and fear.

Of course this is understandable and if that helps our friend feel better than so be it.

 

When you see government officials doing things they are ordering other people Not to do is Par for the course.    

 

 

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

I think that is hilarious. When I was working in the oil industry it was a well-known fact that the government made more on each gallon of gasoline than the refinery did. 

 

But, that's another subject..

 

True,  but as Vern said....it was cheaper for us under one president. My wallets has taken a beating overall in the past 4 years.....because half the people vote based on personalities/ gender/ looks/race etc.....rather  than the one best qualified to do the job.

 

I’m amazed at how many women feel so strongly about their right to kill their unborn babies. That is just insane. “No natural affection”

 Also the ‘progressive” wing of the Democratic Party is now trying to pass a bill that allows doctors to perform transgender surgery on your child without your permission.....and it goes on.  

 

Nevertheless, the system.... it’s Gotta Go!   So any temporary relief we may get from inflation....will be fleeting.   

 

Maybe when America becomes "Great again”. and Trump ends these wars..... They’ll declare peace And Security. It has to come sometime, Right? "Come Quickly Lord Jesus” 

 

If you're confused, put a “confused” ( emoticon down on your right. 

[Hope]

The president (any president) has very little to do with gas prices:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-trump-edges-biden-on-gas-prices-174049744.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADegypyTNejg97sFcCKko8Zs9inukESsn87HxFD6DwLsDJmL0JN74QQsbp4cvHWnnVoNJgKklYrQYOQZ4cO09OmIzYqF__tOHUfkwxSD0srtPJjEtpoJpPVFRjFK5lmmrZjVyoaKbdyHZjxq6oOHc2BH7csKmH3rPBgckTB5dIS6

[Tortuga]

24 minutes ago, Hope said:

The president (any president) has very little to do with gas prices:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-trump-edges-biden-on-gas-prices-174049744.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADegypyTNejg97sFcCKko8Zs9inukESsn87HxFD6DwLsDJmL0JN74QQsbp4cvHWnnVoNJgKklYrQYOQZ4cO09OmIzYqF__tOHUfkwxSD0srtPJjEtpoJpPVFRjFK5lmmrZjVyoaKbdyHZjxq6oOHc2BH7csKmH3rPBgckTB5dIS6

Yes and no. The price at the pump includes a lot of State and Federal taxes. The cost of refining oil includes the cost of governmental environment compliance. The cost of doing business in some states (California) is huge. The President can affect those things if he/she wanted to, but it wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do. There, just more information that none of us needed to know..

[jwhess]

22 hours ago, Salamander said:

 sorry i am yapping away my opinion lol

Welcome to the forum.  Yap away with the rest of us.

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Pjdriver said:

I don’t think Sister Erin was saying each one doesn’t have the right to make that choice....but that government was not exactly honest about certain things.....For example Dr. Falchi said 6 feet separation. Viruses can travel much further than that.  Very many of the mask worn by the public were not very effective. Seems it was more like a security blanket. Not super practical. 

For those who realized that....it seemed to be heavily based on emotion and fear.

Of course this is understandable and if that helps our friend feel better than so be it.

 

When you see government officials doing things they are ordering other people Not to do is Par for the course.    

 

You slightly misunderstood the point of my comment. I understand that Erin wasn't making a point on free will, she was pointing out some conspiracy theories she believes in and how they inform her personal theories about how this system may end. My point was that I didn't want us to argue about the validity of conspiracies - I wanted to focus on the solution: maintaining unity by respecting free will.

 

Do your personal research, come to conclusions, and make your decisions - then, respect your Brothers for doing the same. If we take it further than that and spend our time trying to "convince" others who have already decided, we are getting distracted by Satan's system.

 

To use your comment as an example: instead of arguing about whether or not the government was "honest about certain things" (a conspiracy theory), I will respect your viewpoint and whatever conclusion you reached based on it (such as deciding to go unmasked where it is legal to do so). I will also respect the GB's right to require masks for certain locations/activities because they have a right to set standards for things under their spiritual oversight. Hopefully you can see that this stance allows the holders of both viewpoints to be treated with dignity and thus our unity is maintained instead of devolving into endless debates.

[Pjdriver]

11 hours ago, Hope said:

The president (any president) has very little to do with gas prices:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-trump-edges-biden-on-gas-prices-174049744.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADegypyTNejg97sFcCKko8Zs9inukESsn87HxFD6DwLsDJmL0JN74QQsbp4cvHWnnVoNJgKklYrQYOQZ4cO09OmIzYqF__tOHUfkwxSD0srtPJjEtpoJpPVFRjFK5lmmrZjVyoaKbdyHZjxq6oOHc2BH7csKmH3rPBgckTB5dIS6

 

Obviously, The president doesn’t directly regulate prices the government doesn’t own the oils companies....however he definitely can do things that will bring prices down because prices are influenced by market demand and government regulations. 

 

The US was energy independent, meaning we were producing more than we were using.

Then the current administration immediately stoped or slowed drilling and pipelines....and imposed environmental regulations which made it much harder to produce oil. Now the US has to buy oil which make prices higher.  

 

Under Trump, gas prices averaged significantly lower, around $2.67 per gallon, compared to Biden's $3.61 average. Trump's energy policies, such as expanding domestic oil production and easing regulations, helped keep prices lower, while Biden’s focus on environmental policies.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-trump-edges-biden-on-gas-prices-174049744.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADegypyTNejg97sFcCKko8Zs9inukESsn87HxFD6DwLsDJmL0JN74QQsbp4cvHWnnVoNJgKklYrQYOQZ4cO09OmIzYqF__tOHUfkwxSD0srtPJjEtpoJpPVFRjFK5lmmrZjVyoaKbdyHZjxq6oOHc2BH7csKmH3rPBgckTB5dIS6

[Shawnster]

Why do gas prices seem to always fall at election time if the government doesn't control the price? 

[Pjdriver]

10 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

To use your comment as an example: instead of arguing about whether or not the government was "honest about certain things" (a conspiracy theory), I will respect your viewpoint and whatever conclusion you reached based on it (such as deciding to go unmasked where it is legal to do so).

 

Seriously, to say the government is not honest about certain things is "a conspiracy theory”?

 

At the beginning of the pandemic, Dr. Fauci and the CDC, advised the general public not to wear masks.  They were not needed.  why?

 

 Dr. Falchi, the top Doctor.....has acknowledged they were worried there would be a run on the N-95 or KN-95 mask...the ones medical workers need.  So they were deceptive about needing a mask. That’s a fact not a theory.

 

While the 6-foot rule was based on old studies of how respiratory droplets travel, the specific number was somewhat arbitrary and wasn’t very effective based on the understanding of aerosol transmission. Aerosols can linger in the air longer and travel farther, especially indoors, making a strict 6-foot rule less effective. 

 

I’m not saying everything was a conspiracy to harm us.  But just that there was most definitely not full disclosure. That’s all I’m saying. I wore a mask and followed the rules. That’s beside the point.  These are not all conspiracy theories. That is what they want you to think.

 

PS. Im not comfortable to continues arguing politics. So I’m going to back out.

I’m not saying  anyone has..... but please don’t try to make it appear as though I’m not following the rules or encouraging others to not follow the rules...... I’ve been down this road before. 

Edited October 24 by Pjdriver

[LeolaRootStew]

15 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

Seriously, to say the government is not honest about certain things is "a conspiracy theory”?

 

Yes. You theorized that there was a conspiracy to be dishonest about masks. Whether it turns out to be true or not is irrelevant. I'm sure I could find someone who has a different interpretation of that same information - that would also be a theory. I recognize that the world uses "conspiracy theory" to mean a "whacky idea that has no basis in reality", but that is not what it literally means. 

 

Conspiracy theory: a theory that a conspiracy has taken place. 

 

Example:

Fact: Fauci said something about masks

Theory: this is what that means and this is what we need to do based on that information.

 

Since Brothers disagreed on the value of masks, even with the same set of "facts", your interpretation of the facts is what makes it a theory. Again, I am not saying you are right or wrong, but the act of interpreting data and drawing conclusions puts it into the realm of theory. Since we can come to different conclusions, it is more important to show respect for other people's right to make personal decisions than it is to prove to everyone that your viewpoint is the most accurate. That is my only point.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

I’m not saying  anyone has..... but please don’t try to make it appear as though I’m not following the rules or encouraging others to not follow the rules...... I’ve been down this road before. 

 

I didn't and I wouldn't. I said I respected your viewpoint. 💜

 

Please don't interpret my use of "conspiracy theory" as derogatory. We all know governments and institutions have always and will always conspire, including all the times they put Witnesses in prison; however, how we respond to daily conspiracies is a personal matter.

 

I think I've said all I need to say.

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Pjdriver said:

Seriously, to say the government is not honest about certain things is "a conspiracy theory”?

Depends on the person. Depends on the government. 

 

Russia stated the invasion of Ukraine was to remove Neo-Nazis from control of the region. That was the government's official position. Would citizens that feel Russia is concealing the truth be labeled conspiracy theorist? Western governments feel Russia is lying. Would they consider ones supporting Russian clams to be conspiracy theorist? 

 

Trump tosses out like candy ideas and statements others claim are wackadoodle. Trump supporters feel these are absolute facts and his opponents feel they are conspiracy theories. 

 

Welcome to the 21st century where we regularly exchange the truth for the lie. 

[Pjdriver]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

 

Welcome to the 21st century where we regularly exchange the truth for the lie.

That’s my point. It’s a fact that the government was deceptive and has always been deceptive in certain things (not everything.) This not some far-fetched concept....I believe the great majority of people would agree. It doesn’t even have to be outright lies, although some statements were know to be outright lies.

 

PS.

I could go back and forth with anyone on this..... but I think this topic is not healthy for JWs to get deep into. 

I would venture to say if we were not neutral we would be enemies....because our experience, knowledge and dispositions are varied,  and we would not have the unity we have now.  Our standard for right and wrong would be based on our own views and not Jehovah’s. I include myself in that. 

 

For the sake of unity I would seriously recommend closing this topic...  

Am I being overly concerned?