Keeping up with current/new terms & adjustments ... should we?

[sania]

and the term "publisher" sounds like a company or person publishes books, so we use the term "pracharakan" meaning circulator? (of kingdom messages) don't know the exact english word, but defenitly not publisher..

[carlos]

One change I noticed today in the Spanish convention (I haven't attended a meeting in Spanish for years) is that the old-sounding word "cántico" (canticle) has been replaced by "canción" (song). That is a good change. No one says canticle anymore in everyday speech.

 

and the term "publisher" sounds like a company or person publishes books, so we use the term "pracharakan" meaning circulator? (of kingdom messages) don't know the exact english word, but defenitly not publisher..

 

In Romanian we used to refer to a publisher as a "proclamator" (proclaimer) until someone realized that that word did not exist in Romanian, and now we say "vestitor" (a bearer of news). It sounds similar to your prachakaran.

[Stavro]

In English, I think 'publisher' is meant to focus on the secondary part of the definition.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/publisher

A person or business that produces and distributes something, such as a book or magazine, in printed or electronic form.

[jwhess]

We might reflect that many of us grew up using the King James Version which says "publish"  which means to declare or preach.

 

*** it-2 p. 671 Preacher, Preaching ***

The word eu·ag·ge·liʹzo·mai means “declare good news.” (Mt 11:5) Related word ka·tag·gelʹlo, “publish; talk about; proclaim; publicize.” (Ac 13:5; Ro 1:8; 1Co 11:26; Col 1:28)

 

King James Version (AV)

Ac 13:49  And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

 

Mr 13:10  And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 

Mr 5:20  And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

 

One who 'publishes' is a 'publisher'.

Edited August 2, 2015 by jwhess

[kejedo]

In English, I think 'publisher' is meant to focus on the secondary part of the definition.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/publisher

A person or business that produces and distributes something, such as a book or magazine, in printed or electronic for

or one who makes information public. Who remembers recognized associate? I also hear unbaptized minister vs fully ordained minister. Does that mean an unbaptized minister is partly ordained?    

[Sheep]

One change I noticed today in the Spanish convention (I haven't attended a meeting in Spanish for years) is that the old-sounding word "cántico" (canticle) has been replaced by "canción" (song). That is a good change. No one says canticle anymore in everyday speech.

 

 

In Romanian we used to refer to a publisher as a "proclamator" (proclaimer) until someone realized that that word did not exist in Romanian, and now we say "vestitor" (a bearer of news). It sounds similar to your prachakaran.

 

It's not the same in French. We still use cantique for a song, which should be obvious what it means. Since French is not my first language I'm not sure if that's a really common word today. An alternate meaning of cantique is hymn, which we would never say in English. It would make us sound too much like christendom. But cantique does not sound too "churchy" in French.

 

And for a publisher the French use proclamateur, similar to what you used to use in Romanian. That is a real word in French.

 

Of course, if the Society releases a revised NWT in French, that could all change. But I'm not sure; the French NWT used in the congregations today is dated 1995. We'll see.

[carlos]

Of course, if the Society releases a revised NWT in French, that could all change. But I'm not sure; the French NWT used in the congregations today is dated 1995. We'll see.

 

Thank you, Eric. It was nice to know about cantiques and proclamateurs.

 

I am convinced that we will very soon have a new NWT in French too. I don't want to say much not to spoil the regional convention for anyone, but one of the new publications is not being released in several widespread languages (Spanish, French, German) because the translators are waiting for the NWT to be finished in those languages so that they can take the quotations from the new version. That means the new NWT is coming soon!

[Sheep]

Thank you, Eric. It was nice to know about cantiques and proclamateurs.

 

I am convinced that we will very soon have a new NWT in French too. I don't want to say much not to spoil the regional convention for anyone, but one of the new publications is not being released in several widespread languages (Spanish, French, German) because the translators are waiting for the NWT to be finished in those languages so that they can take the quotations from the new version. That means the new NWT is coming soon!

 

Hey, you're right! I just learned something from you! Since I haven't been in a French congregation for several years, I'm not really up to date. I had to check with a brother in French a few minutes ago, and he confirmed that one new publication was mentioned at their convention, but not released. It was also mentioned there that the brothers are working on a revised French NWT!

 

Interestingly, one of the other new publications was released at the convention, but I'm not sure of the Bible quotations in it. The brother in French I spoke to hasn't actually looked at the scripture quotations in it yet, but only read it in English. He's going to check it for me later today.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Sheep

[Sheep]

Update: I heard from the brother later in the day. He checked, and that latter publication quotes from the current (1995) French NWT. I guess it will be reprinted after the revised NWT in French comes out.

 

As for the other publication, it was released at the French conventions, but only in English. At least, that was what happened at the French conventions in Montreal.

[peper-eliot]

 The current (1995) French NWT is a good one with a lot of revisions ... we use "patience" since 1995, but it's something new for you, all dear English brothers

 And it's our reference Bible, as your "old" NWT is your reference Bible too

but the new English NWT is a really good version to understand the original text without watchtower Library by my side. . .

Many many clarification and simplification... one of my favorite

Ex 11:7 But against any of the sons of Israel will no dog move eagerly its tongue  (same in French)

-​but not even a dog will bark at the Israelites  ​

[ArthurW]

In Romanian we used to refer to a publisher as a "proclamator" (proclaimer) until someone realized that that word did not exist in Romanian, and now we say "vestitor" (a bearer of news). It sounds similar to your prachakaran.

My understanding is that "proclamator" and "vestitor" were used interchangeably, with "vestitor" being the more official translation of "publisher". At least in both the "Our Ministry" and the "Organized" books use "vestitor nebotezat. Moreover, even if "proclamator" was not recorded as a noun in the official Romanian expository dictionary (Dicţionarul explicativ al limbii române) until 1998, it was considered as proper for use as neologism on par with the French "proclamateur". Probably the more evident change in theocratic vocabulary was the Romanian equivalent of the English words "minister", "ministry" and "ministerial". There is a number of smaller dictionaries that confirm the theocratic usage of the Romanian cognates of these words, but it's not that widespread as in other Romance languages. That's why they changed "ministry" to "service". E.g. "minister de teren" (field ministry) became "serviciu de teren" (Usually "ministry" by itself is translated as "lucrare de predicare" = "preaching work"), "slujitor ministerial" (MS) became "slujitor auxiliar" (the MS' role of aiding the BOE is expressed similarly in German and Hungarian), "Şcoala de Instruire Ministerială" (MTS) became "Şcoala de Organizare Teocratică", and the "Ministerul pentru Regat" (OKM, which had dropped the "our" in the title in the early 2000s) became "Serviciul pentru Regat". But there was a funny experience during a service meeting part, the brother handling it was inviting us to turn our copies of OKM by saying "Serviciul de Minister". Virtually noone noticed the mistake but it was really sweet.

 

Interestingly, one of the other new publications was released at the convention, but I'm not sure of the Bible quotations in it.

The Bible quotations are from the current Reference Bible (Traduction du monde nouveau avec notes et références).

[carlos]

Probably the more evident change in theocratic vocabulary was the Romanian equivalent of the English words "minister", "ministry" and "ministerial". There is a number of smaller dictionaries that confirm the theocratic usage of the Romanian cognates of these words, but it's not that widespread as in other Romance languages. That's why they changed "ministry" to "service".

 

Yes, that was a good change. I hope we get rid of "ministry" in Spanish too. Although the words ministry and minister are occasionally used in a religious sense, most of the time they are used in political contexts.

 

I love the expression "slujitor auxiliar". "Ministerial servant" doesn't really mean anything.

Edited August 19, 2015 by carlos

[jwhess]

Br, Carlos & Br. Arthur,  I am attaching a reference for historical note concerning our use of the word "minister".

 

*** km 1/76 p. 3 Speaking with the “Same Line of Thought” About Our Service to God ***

Speaking with the “Same Line of Thought” About Our Service to God

NO DOUBT you have had the opportunity to read the December 1, 1975, Watchtower and the information it gives about the terms “minister” and “ministry.” What effect will this Scriptural presentation have on our service to God?

In reality, our service to God continues to be what it always has been. The information in the Watchtower articles simply helps us to view that service in a somewhat clearer light, enriching our appreciation for it. It also helps us to understand more accurately the meaning of certain Bible terms and to use them in a way that will bring out more fully their original sense and “flavor.” It aids us to avoid causing misunderstanding on the part of persons in the world through our speech, not using English terms in a way that is contrary to their generally accepted sense in modern-day language. And, finally, it helps us to bring the thinking and speaking of all of us, on a global scale, no matter what our language may be, into greater harmony through our having the “same line of thought,” solidly based on the Scriptures.—1 Cor. 1:10.

As you will notice, the monthly publication that has for many years been called “Kingdom Ministry” has had its name changed to “Our Kingdom Service,” beginning with this January 1976 issue. In this way the thought of service expressed by the Greek Scripture term di·a·ko·niʹa is more fully conveyed. This change primarily affects just a few languages: English, Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese. Why these? Because in the other languages in which this monthly publication is printed, the title already contains the corresponding word for “service,” the reason being that there had been a problem in translating “ministry” accurately into those languages. So this new title in our language will bring the name of this publication into closer harmony with that used elsewhere around the world.

Along with the October 1975 Kingdom Ministry you received your “Theocratic School Schedule for 1976.” Perhaps you noticed that the School is there called simply “Theocratic School” rather than “Theocratic Ministry School” as in the past. From now on we will use that name, “Theocratic School.” This will simplify the name of the School even in some languages other than the five mentioned earlier. In German, for example, because of not having a corresponding term for “ministry” in a religious sense our brothers have had to develop a substitute term and thus have called it the “Theocratic Preaching Service School” (Theokratische Predigtdienstschule).

The “Kingdom Ministry School” will continue to be known by that name in English. Those now being invited there are elders and are therefore persons who have, in effect, had ‘hands laid upon them,’ assigning them to carry out a congregational service or “ministry.” (Acts 13:2, 3; 1 Tim. 4:14; 5:22) So the name of the School remains appropriate in English.

Use of the Term “Minister” in the Field Service

What about our use of the term “minister” in the preaching activity we carry on in the field? Since the original meaning of the word “minister” is that of a “servant,” a Kingdom proclaimer is not wrong in referring to himself or herself as a “minister” in the sense of being a “servant” of God. But will our use of the term be properly understood by the persons to whom we carry the Kingdom message? Or will it raise questions in their minds that might not otherwise be raised, particularly if women or perhaps young persons introduce themselves as “ministers”? Will it really aid in opening up the minds and hearts of people to the message we bring? These are questions we should consider in deciding what will be advisable.

 

You will note that 40 years ago we went through a period when we thought the word "minister" was awkward or misunderstood.  This lasted through March of 1981 when the March 15th Watchtower stated that "All dedicated and baptized Christians....[are] ministers".  This is in harmony with the Apostle Paul's words, "I glorify my ministry".  By 1982 all of the names changed back to 'Kingdom Ministry', Theocratic Ministry School' an so on.  This period was a time of testing of the organization, it is worth reviewing that period of time.  I will say no more since this is the public forum.

[minister159]

John,

 

I wrote a lengthy post about this with a detailed explanation for the changes about three years ago, but I think it has since been deleted.

[jwhess]

Ken,  For those of us who lived through those days in the middle 1970's, most of us would like them to remain in the past.  Our current, steadfast direction under the steady hand of the FDS is to be treasured. We should look back for historical direction (one of the GB said, 'You can't know where your going if you don't know where you been').  We can look back for warnings or cautions.  We can look back for encouragement as to our progress.  However, we can not make good forward progress by staring in the rear-view mirror.  We should never look back in longing for the things past.  "Remember the wife of Lot".

[carlos]

Br, Carlos & Br. Arthur,  I am attaching a reference for historical note concerning our use of the word "minister".

 

Thank you, John. We were discussing the use of the word "minister" in Romanian and Spanish, but I didn't know that we avoided it for some time in English too. That was a most interesting reading.

[jwhess]

You are welcome Carlos.  I thought that it was interesting that the second paragraph noted; "This change primarily affects just a few languages: English, Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese."

So, originally it appears, Spanish was part of the change away from "minister" in 1976 and part of the change back to "minister" in 1981.

It is a small world when it is God's organization.

[Old]

Ken,  For those of us who lived through those days in the middle 1970's, most of us would like them to remain in the past.  ...

Those were some dark times for my family. We had always been ministers and then we weren't. 

Anyone here recall the comments on Acts 20:20?

All things have since been restored and we moved on.

[minister159]

Jerry,

 

Yes, I remember it distinctly. There was also a discussion about what constitutes our sacred service about 1978. It was another thinly-veiled attempt to marginalize our ministry. Since this is a public forum, I won't go into detail.

Edited August 21, 2015 by minister159

[Witness1970]

Umm the term new system has been replaced by New World. From the Regional /International Conventions. Everybody will be apart of the New World - heavenly friends (144,000) and earthly friends.

I did not catch that at the International Convention. I still remember back in the 1970's when many people used the words, "New World Order." I never liked the term myself. But those words came to be applied to the coalition of nations.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[AH173]

It's OK. I have it in audio and video. If you have access to the actual video and audio files from your regional / International convention the Branch representative /Governing body member mentioned it. Bro Morris at Detroit and Bro Splane at new Jersey. Before announcing the Kingdom tract.

[Witness1970]

I also remember being told it was an Information Board not a Bulletin Board because of the Catholic papal bulls

bulletin (n.) Look up bulletin at Dictionary.com

1765, from French bulletin (16c.), modeled on Italian bulletino, diminutive of bulletta "document, voting slip," itself a diminutive of Latin bulla (see bull (n.2)) with equivalent of Old French -elet (see -let). The word was used earlier in English in the Italian form (mid-17c.). Popularized by their use in the Napoleonic Wars as the name for dispatches sent from the front and meant for the home public (which led to the proverbial expression as false as a bulletin). Bulletin board is from 1831.

It would appear that the word bulletin did not come from Papal Bull but possibly that both words came, separately, from the same origin.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk