Turkish Military Overthrows the Government?

[Pavlos]

I had a communication with brothers in Izmir on Saturday evening. They told me they are all safe and they just worry for the next day. 

[ChocoBro]

1 hour ago, ouzo said:

I had a communication with brothers in Izmir on Saturday evening. They told me they are all safe and they just worry for the next day. 

 

I think the recent WT article on neutrality will become extremely vital for our brothers in Turkey in the coming months.

 

Though some experts perceive Erdogan as having reached his goal, I tend to agree with people that believe this is the beginning of the trouble.

 

I read somewhere that what if this is all staged? Then thousands of judges and soldiers have been put out of duty and imprisoned although many of them are innocent. And they are talking about dealing out the death penalty to them? These people have family and friends as well. The media say this is uniting Turkey, but that remains to be seen. The French Revolution also initially seemed to "unite" the people, but in the end all it ended up in was bloodshed.

[Miss Bea]

I see the reports on TV of chaos, wherever. First of all, I know my brothers and sisters are safe away from all that madness. Secondly, I just really don't give it too much thought, except to say a prayer for Jehovah's people wherever this is taking place. I think so much of it is just propaganda to keep things stirred up by you know Who! I just don't think you can believe much of the media. I care more about what I read here in this site regards the world's events then what that media machine promoted by Satan says. Always three sides to the story, this side, that side, and Jehovah's side. 

[ChocoBro]

For anybody interested in the development of the situation, here's a news update:

Situation in Turkey:

- Lynchmobs on the streets looking for accomplices of the "coup"

- Hundreds of soldiers are being rounded up, beaten by angry mobs, imprisoned without charge and lined up naked

- More than 3.000 judges and state attorneys have been arrested

- It has been reported that 16 "coup plotters" were killed during the coup. Strangely, the government is still not clear about who actually orchestrated it, though.

- 30 governors and 8.000 police officers (!) have been sacked

- Turkey parliament was 'evacuated due to imminent security threat'

- A deputy mayor in an Istanbul district is in a critical condition after being shot

 

Geopolitical developments:

- The FAA has banned all flights from Turkish Airlines due to the high security risk based on the coup as well as recent terror attacks

- Turkish AKP supporters / Erdogan supporters are hunting down Gülen-supporters in cities across Europe

- The Turkish stock market fell 7% today and is set to continue spiralling down until the situation calms down

- The EU has made it clear that Turkey's ambitions to join the EU will become impossible if they bring back the death penalty.

 

And this is all just from today and off the top of my head. Stay tuned and stay awake, folks. This one looks like it may be worth keeping an eye on.

[ChocoBro]

Couple more updates:

 

- Explosion in Ankara, the country's capital city, one building is said to still be on fire

- Erdogan raises the question why he should "have to feed these traitors" when the entire country wants them all put to death

- Yldirim has stated that any country giving harbour to Gülen is an "enemy of Turkey" (i.e. the USA, their most powerful partner)

- Rumours are circulating the US base in Incirlik (I believe roughly 1.500 US personnel, 200 German personnel, nuclear weapons) has been "cut off" the past days, including power supplies. The official incirlik base website speaks only of "Turkish government has closed its airspace to military aircraft"

- Wikileaks has "declared war" on the Turkish government stating it will release thousands of documents to blow the whistle on corruption at high levels of government

 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

7 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

Wikileaks has "declared war" on the Turkish government stating it will release thousands of documents to blow the whistle on corruption at high levels of government

Oh wow!  Erdogan sides with the muslims (the reason why the military had the coup to "restore democracy") so this political unrest is bathed in religious intrigue.

[ChocoBro]

5 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

Oh wow!  Erdogan sides with the muslims (the reason why the military had the coup to "restore democracy") so this political unrest is bathed in religious intrigue.

 

The madness goes on. Later on yesterday evening it was reported Turkey is laying off 20.000 school teachers, plus another 15.000 education ministry employees, plus demanding the resignation of 1.500 university deans. Rumours are spreading that he wants to strengthen the islamic education system instead and put kids in Madrassas.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/turkey-demands-resignation-of-every-university-dean-in-country-a/

 

The list of people arrested and fired supposedly because of this half-hearted "coup" is now over 100.000, what kind of country can survive this kind of "reform"? In my opinion, this puts Turkey well on its way of becoming an islamic failed state.

 

Religious freedom will be next to go there.

Edited July 20, 2016 by ChocoBro

[Shawnster]

J don't know about "failed"  status.   The former Soviet Union survived many purges like this. 

 

Our news reports here are also leaning toward a staged coup.   The government had the list of people to arrest almost instantly, too fast to be the result of investigation after the fact. 

[ChocoBro]

9 hours ago, Shawnster said:

J don't know about "failed"  status.   The former Soviet Union survived many purges like this. 

 

Our news reports here are also leaning toward a staged coup.   The government had the list of people to arrest almost instantly, too fast to be the result of investigation after the fact. 

I dunno though. Communism was always based on productivity, whereas islamism basically never yielded absolutely anything of merit.

 

In any case, since I am avidly following the developments, here are a few more more or less current news tidbits.

 

- That Incirlik airbase has been without commercial power is not a rumour, but a fact. A Pentagon spokesman has admitted that they have been running on "internal power sources" since Friday. It would seem Turkey is trying to strongarm the US... perhaps to extradite Gülen?

- The Belgian government has summoned the Turkish ambassador at short notice to come explain comments from the Turkish embassy that local authorities have excessively close relations with opponents of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (i.e. Gülen)

- Austrian newspaper Krone.at reports 14 warships have defected and are on their way to Greece

- German national soccer player Mario Gomez has stated he wants to leave his club Besiktas Istanbul amid fears of the developing political climate in Turkey

- Turkey has stated it wants to ban academics leaving the country amid a looming mass exodus of non-Erdogan-supporters

- Turkey has closed more than 600 private schools on top of the public education purge

- Standard and poors has dropped Turkey's credit rating to "junk" while the Turkish Lira and stock market has dropped pretty badly since Monday (stock markets now down 10%) as investors are literally fleeing Turkey. But unlike a usual stock market fall, these investors won't be returning that quickly

 

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by ChocoBro

[Old]

44 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

I dunno though. Communism was always based on productivity, whereas islamism basically never yielded absolutely anything of merit.

 

Well except for a few minor contributions, like maybe our system of numbers, algebra, public libraries, the first universities, the awarding of degrees, modern idea of personal hygiene, the tooth brush, coffee, optics, our musical scales, the crank, hospitals, the caesarean operation, vaccines, shampoo, distillation, the decimal point, the marching band, airplane, parachutes, and the list goes on, and on.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Old

[Shawnster]

21 minutes ago, Old said:

airplane

 

 

The Wright Brothers were from the Middle East?

Edited July 20, 2016 by Shawnster

[Old]

55 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

The Wright Brothers were from the Middle East?

 

The encyclopedia did not say it worked. That might be why the same man also got credit for the parachute. About a 200ft  almost vertical descent and he lived.

Could talk, but never walked again.

Most inventions are perfected by another party.

As an example one Scandinavian country takes credit for inventing the toilet seat.

It's neighbor takes the credit for making the toilet seat practical.

They cut a hole in it.  

[ChocoBro]

7 hours ago, Old said:

Well except for a few minor contributions, like maybe our system of numbers, algebra, public libraries, the first universities, the awarding of degrees, modern idea of personal hygiene, the tooth brush, coffee, optics, our musical scales, the crank, hospitals, the caesarean operation, vaccines, shampoo, distillation, the decimal point, the marching band, airplane, parachutes, and the list goes on, and on.

 

Excuse me, but where do people get this canard from? Algebra, libraries, universities, hygiene may have originated in a large scale in areas that are muslim countries today, such as Egypt and Greece.. oh wait.. never mind, but their origin has nothing to do with islam and in absolutely no case has anything to do with islamism which is basically just Sharia regulating everyday life and nothing else. In fact, islamism has often stood in the way of scientific progress.

 

Turning "islamism" into "the Middle East" is sort of like turning "communism" into Russia.

 

Were you just joking and being sarcastic or were you actually being serious? Because I'd like to know where on earth you got "the airplane" from.

Edited July 21, 2016 by ChocoBro

[ChocoBro]

Never mind I don't really think I want to know.

 

A somewhat more worrying contribution from German news outlet Spiegel

- Erdogan likens the coming changes in Turkey to those in "Hitler Germany"

 

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/tuerkei-recep-tayyip-erdogan-nennt-hitler-deutschland-als-beispiel-fuer-praesidialsystem-a-1070162.html

 

Isn't it interesting how there is, in fact, nothing new under the sun.

[Old]

1 hour ago, ChocoBro said:

Excuse me, but where do people get this canard from? Algebra, libraries, universities, hygiene may have originated in a large scale in areas that are muslim countries today, such as Egypt and Greece.. oh wait.. never mind, but their origin has nothing to do with islam and in absolutely no case has anything to do with islamism which is basically just Sharia regulating everyday life and nothing else. In fact, islamism has often stood in the way of scientific progress.

 

Turning "islamism" into "the Middle East" is sort of like turning "communism" into Russia.

 

Were you just joking and being sarcastic or were you actually being serious? Because I'd like to know where on earth you got "the airplane" from.

 

You have to be kidding, right?

[ChocoBro]

Just now, Old said:

You have to be kidding, right?

I'm not going to allow this topic to be drawn into a silly discussion about the merits of radical muslim extremism. You can go make your own thread to praise islamism if you like. I have discussed these topics with so many people that don't even know Mohammeds biography or have read the Quran.

 

Moving on now.

[Old]

 brother Ruben,

I thought you had already drawn this topic into a discussion of Muslims, extremist or other wise. Muslims have never contributed anything to the advancement of mankind?

Do a little research, not hard to find. I really doubt that we could even communicate in this matter without the aid of higher math. Guess where that started.

You have read the Quran? Amazing. I bought a translated copy almost sixty years ago and could make little sense of it.  You are to be congratulated, was yours in German? The English translation was a little difficult to follow, or perhaps you read it in Arabic, even more reason to recognize your astute scholarship.

Curious, have you ever had a Bible study with a Muslim?  I have, a most edifying experience. Have you ever read a volume or two on the contribution of Muslim civilization to western civilization? I thought not.

But go ahead, I remember a time when anyone could voice any thing they wanted as long as it wasn't against the German people. I am old.

By the way, you have  read Mein Kampf? I have.  A most edifying book decrying everybody else except those with one particular view point. Well yes, Jews, but also Muslims.

 

And oh yes, the first papers on and the construction of an airplane originated in a Muslim society. It failed, but think about the toilet seat. The inventor seldom wins the prize.

Canard?? You have to be kidding, Do some research.

Have a good day. 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Old

[ChocoBro]

I have to correct my earlier posting on Erdogan's Hitler statement. Turns out this article was a re-re-re-re-reshare from facebook that dates back to January this year. 

 

Which actually gives it even more weight. 

[carlos]

I'm sure this subject can be discussed with much more Christian-like manners and without calling any names.

[ChocoBro]

6 minutes ago, carlos said:

I'm sure this subject can be discussed with much more Christian-like manners and without calling any names.

I didn't catch anybody calling anybody any names. Or did I miss something?  When I spoke about a canard (a belief or rumor that is not true) I was referring to the idea that Islam or particularly radical islamism had anything to do with any advancements in technology, despite the fact many advancments having been made by muslims.

 

Sort of like saying Guttenbergs developing the printing press had nothing to do with the Church, let alone the Inquisition.

 

Islam ≠ Islamism ≠ Muslims but somehow, these politically correct knee jerk reactions can never be avoided no matter how hard you try to use the right words.

 

All I said was that radical islamism has never yielded any positive fruit and I still stand by that even if some smart muslims of old figured out some Algebra stuff or developed a paper plane LOL

I recommend watching "The Physician" in this regard by the way. Great movie, apparently an even better book.

[MizPeg]

has the smoke cleared, yet?    

[Tbs77]

Since smoke cleared.. Is Turkey, a member of NATO, going to be ousted from NATO if it becomes the caliphate... Like it "used" to be pre 1924? Just asking...

From 2015

‘The caliph is coming, get ready,’ pro-Erdogan Turkish politician tweets

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/03/19/the-caliph-is-coming-get-ready-pro-erdogan-turkish-politician-tweets/

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Shawnster]

From the article:

 

Whatever the intention, Calapkulu's remarks sparked a backlash. On Friday, he released a statement saying he did not mean "caliph" literally. “I use this word to refer to a leader who has command of all the problems, institutions and administration of his country," he wrote, "a leader who is the independent and powerful voice of the world’s downtrodden; the protector of the oppressed; a good, successful, pioneering and visionary leader.”

 

 

[Tbs77]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/07/21/world/europe/ap-eu-turkey-coup-analysis.html?referer=

Turkey, a NATO ally that describes itself as a bridge between east and west, is truly at a crossroads, embarking on a path whose ultimate consequences may not even be entirely clear to the leader who has dominated the nation of 80 million for more than a decade. For the West, the stakes are high because strategically located Turkey, spanning Asia and Europe, is considered a vital partner in efforts to contain terrorism and regulate mass migration from Syria and other conflict zones.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk