Space, Our Eternal Frontier?

[tuntun]

12 hours ago, Shawnster said:

The viewpoint that Jehovah would prohibit or forbid humans from going to other planets because "the heavens belong to Jehovah" is very narrow-minded.  By that logic, humans should not fly in airplanes or balloons because that is in the heavens.  

 

Jehovah creates everything for a purpose.  It is estimated there are 2 trillion, (that's 2 thousand billion) galaxies.  Why would Jehovah make that many galaxies, each of them containing billions of stars and billions of planets, if humans who are supposed to live forever would never go to any of those places?  That would be like building houses but never letting anyone live in them but can only look at them through telescopes.  

if that the case why  just doesn't God put some earth-like planets which has the right amount of oxygen, gravity level, right distance against sun just some miles away from earth?

 

but scientist always saying these planets are seem is toooooo far awaaaay to visit. maybe took billion of year of light with space rocket to get there

Edited February 28, 2019 by tuntun

[New World Explorer]

13 hours ago, EccentricM said:

Interesting, sounds lke where you are Elders have very different opinions to other localities, as I've spoken to some who have the opposite opinion.

Yep, I am open to any possibility.

We have no idea what wonderful things Jehovah will reveal to us in the future, so to make dogmatic statements regarding , living on other planets, space travel is rather "narrow minded" so to speak.

 

In the future, I would like to explore any "donut shaped galaxies" perhaps I'll find endless supply of special dough called....  ....LOL

[BenJepthah]

13 hours ago, Tortuga said:

I wonder if Venus is still going through the creation process...

According to CS Lewis God has already made sure that their Adam and Eve haven’t been corrupted by the devil. 

[Tortuga]

4 minutes ago, BenJepthah said:

According to CS Lewis God has already made sure that their Adam and Eve haven’t been corrupted by the devil. 

Which book is that?

[BenJepthah]

9 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Which book is that?

Perelandra “ voyage to Venus “ it is a sequel to “ Out of the Silent planet “ the main character ( human) was brought to Venus by an Angel in order to prevent a demon possessed man from corrupting Venus’s Eve. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by BenJepthah

[Shawnster]

12 hours ago, Tortuga said:

The thread has drifted but TunTun started the thread so he has some latitude to let it drift if he wants...

Actually this topic was broken off from another discussion.  Instead of having everyone get back on topic, I broke this off into a new one.

 

12 hours ago, tuntun said:

it is possibly God could have created all of these space objects such as giant gas planet so that we could have abundant of energy reserves so if the earth someday or somehow has running out.

I agree that gas giants could very well be there for us to use as a source of power.  In addition, most of the sun's energy is wasted.  Imagine a ring of solar satellites around the entire sun.  That's almost unlimited energy right there alone.  And the Bible promises that the Earth will remain forever, so that means we'll always have the sun, too.  

 

12 hours ago, tuntun said:

Tree of life is a real tree not just a symbol or magical tree.

While the Tree of Life was real, the partaking of it's fruit had symbolic meaning.  Jehovah promised that anyone eating from that fruit would have everlasting life.  It was a symbolic representation of that agreement.  Likewise today with Jesus sacrifice.  Jesus was real.  His flesh and blood were real.  The emblems at the memorial symbolize or represent his flesh and blood.  Partaking of the bread and wine, while done literally, has symbolic meaning.  Jesus said that anyone partaking of the emblems would rule with him in heaven.  The emblems themselves have no literal power to make that happen but it's the symbolism behind the emblems that is important.  This is why we take such partaking seriously and do not partake of the emblems unless we are sure of our hope.  

 

But the tree of life is off-topic.  We can discuss that in another topic.

11 hours ago, tuntun said:

if that the case why  just doesn't God put some earth-like planets which has the right amount of oxygen, gravity level, right distance against sun just some miles away from earth?

 

but scientist always saying these planets are seem is toooooo far awaaaay to visit. maybe took billion of year of light with space rocket to get there

 

For the same reason that Jehovah wanted Adam and Eve and their children to expand the Garden of Eden?  He could have made the whole Earth a paradise, but he didn't.  Jehovah gives us a start, but he also expects us to do some work.

 

The nearest star, Alpha Centauri, is 5 light years away.  Even if it takes 100 years travel in a spaceship to get there, what is that when compared to everlasting life?  Nothing.  Just a short trip.  

Edited February 28, 2019 by Shawnster

[Pjdriver]

14 hours ago, Newtonian said:

In fact, in about 5 billion years Milky Way will begin to merge with Andromeda galaxy.   

Ok then....I’m going to check back with you on that in about 5 billion years. 🚀🏻

[Qapla]

Jehovah has created the vast universe and we have no clue as to His full purpose for it ... other than the fact that it exemplifies His undeniable position as The Only True God and Creator - in fact, as the Bible says, it is inexcusable to not acknowledge His creatorship. 

 

In contrast, as we view this vastness from the earth we can only surmise some aspects of what we see. Many years ago the learned men of the day had their ideas of how the universe and the galaxy was arranged. It was even held by some that the earth was the center of things and that everything else revolved around this planet. There were even learned men who thought the earth was flat and that you would fall off the edge if you got to close.

 

Today, we know this is not the case. Man has seen with his own eyes that the earth is, indeed, a globe in space "hanging upon nothing" - just as Jehovah had recorded.

 

However, when looking at comments, deductions, observations and conclusions of today's "learned men" - even though they are not making the same claims as those who thought things long since proved wrong ... are their statements any more "written in stone" then those of their predecessors?

 

In the articles that were referenced in the articles on jw.org I noticed the FDS were very careful not to be dogmatic.

 

Notice this in the article in the "Watching the World" series entitled

A COMPLEX UNIVERSE

The discovery of vast structures in space may force scientists to reevaluate their theories. One such structure, referred to as “the great wall,” is described as an immense, flat expanse of galaxies spread out over a thousand million light-years. Another structure is termed “the great attractor” because it is pulling so many galaxies, including our own, toward itself. The New York Times notes that such structures, which “are not simply galaxies or clusters of them, but huge ‘continents of galaxies,’” confirm theories that “the basic objects in the universe are far larger and more complicated than astronomers had imagined.” One astrophysicist told the Times that many theorists were hoping that the great attractor would go away. Why? “We just don’t understand how such a large structure can be formed,” he said.

 

The other article under the sub-head Questions the Big Bang Does Not Answer includes the words "what they call" and "which they call" and "believe" and they seem to conclude "All this structure is baffling."

 

I particularly liked the part where the article said, "Interpretations of cosmic structure on the basis of current mapping of the heavens are far from definitive—more like trying to picture the whole world from a survey of Rhode Island, U.S.A. Geller continued: “Someday we may find that we haven’t been putting the pieces together in the right way, and when we do, it will seem so obvious that we’ll wonder why we hadn’t thought of it much sooner.”

[JudyO]

17 hours ago, Newtonian said:

Back on topic - the speed of our solar system around the galactic (Milky Way) center is about 515,000 mph.  

 

Some more facts about our earth's space travel:

 

https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/PatriciaKong.shtml

Bibliographic Entry	Result (w/surrounding text)	Standardized Result
Kraan-Korteweg, Renée C. & Ofer Lahav. Galaxies Behind The Milky Way. Scientific America. October 1998.	"These measurements, confirmed by the Cosmic Background Explorer satellite in 1989 and 1990, suggest that our galaxy and its neighbors, the so-called Local Group, are moving at 600 kilometers per second (1.34 million miles per hour) in the direction of the constellation Hydra."	600 km/s
Does the Milky Way move in space or does it just stay put? Archive of Ask the Space Scientist FAQs. NASA/GSFC.	"The total speed is about 300 kilometers per second or so."	300 km/s
AstroFile — Future Fate of the Milky Way Galaxy. Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy. 21 October 1997.	"The Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxy are approaching each other with a speed of 300,000 miles per hour."

Actually, the original topic was interstellar travel in conjunction with the concept of humans eventually inhabiting other planets. The speed of our solar system, while a fascinating topic of its own, is just a satellite topic.....you know, much as most of our de-railed conversations are.

[Tortuga]

2 minutes ago, JudyO said:

is just a satellite topic

[JudyO]

4 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Yes, I can be quite punny at times.

[Shawnster]

56 minutes ago, JudyO said:

Actually, the original topic was interstellar travel in conjunction with the concept of humans eventually inhabiting other planets. The speed of our solar system, while a fascinating topic of its own, is just a satellite topic.....you know, much as most of our de-railed conversations are.

Not to mention that, even though the Earth and Milky Way are traveling at such great speeds, the fact is that speed will never get humans closer to any other planets. 

[Dages]

1 hour ago, JudyO said:

Yes, I can be quite punny at times.

Your pun was stellar

[rolypoly]

On 2/27/2019 at 9:28 PM, JudyO said:

I have a recurring thought that I haven't really been able to reason away:

 

When I think of the issue of Universal Sovereignty, I think that it is a good thing it occurred at the beginning of human history, rather than at some later point. It almost seems like too much of a coincidence. Like it really HAD to happen this way. I can't conceive of a timeline in which the events that DID happen would've happened out of order (the order in which we experienced them).

 

I know this line of reasoning can't be right. But it FEELS right.            What piece(s) am I missing????

i wonder about this myself sometimes.  I feel its definitely wrong, but it does feel like it makes sense....  why was it the first human pair?  what are the odds?  why not the 4567th pair?  also i understand what you mean that it could of have HAD to happen. Like the only way to make perfect humans is by some kind of process that I cant verbalize.  i guess im thinking perhaps mathematically they have to be brought to perfection by millions of trial and error.  not bc Jehovah isnt perfect, but bc its the only way to make truly free willed perfection.  I know im not making sense.  like i said i cant verbalize it.  then i realize that satan made the choice that he want mans worship, and he chose to come down and start this.  but then it blows my mind that he would make that choice too.  I actually try not to think about it!

[tuntun]

On 2/28/2019 at 11:33 PM, Shawnster said:

The nearest star, Alpha Centauri, is 5 light years away.  Even if it takes 100 years travel in a spaceship to get there, what is that when compared to everlasting life?  Nothing.  Just a short trip.  

that's not even a possibility

do you know space can change human body?

without the downward force of gravity, the body works considerably less, causing muscle deterioration and loss of bone density

in a single month in space, astronauts can lose as much bone mass as a postmenopausal woman does in a year, according to NASA

you can loss 1-2% of your bone mass every month.

every second, fluids rush throughout our bodies, and for the earth-bound, gravity helps move these fluids down into the legs. but take away gravity, and the fluids float up to the head.

because of all these issues, pregnant woman are not permitted in the ISS - knowing what would happen to a human fetus in zero gravity.

plus i have objection to drink my own urine since spacecraft has very limited water reserves.

 

[EccentricM]

23 minutes ago, tuntun said:

that's not even a possibility

do you know space can change human body?

without the downward force of gravity, the body works considerably less, causing muscle deterioration and loss of bone density

in a single month in space, astronauts can lose as much bone mass as a postmenopausal woman does in a year, according to NASA

you can loss 1-2% of your bone mass every month.

every second, fluids rush throughout our bodies, and for the earth-bound, gravity helps move these fluids down into the legs. but take away gravity, and the fluids float up to the head.

because of all these issues, pregnant woman are not permitted in the ISS - knowing what would happen to a human fetus in zero gravity.

plus i have objection to drink my own urine since spacecraft has very limited water reserves.

 

These are only limitations in this system/time frame. In the future we may have such advanced tech, such as artifical gravity on spaceships, and food stores.

Edited March 2, 2019 by EccentricM

[Shawnster]

37 minutes ago, tuntun said:

that's not even a possibility

do you know space can change human body?

without the downward force of gravity, the body works considerably less, causing muscle deterioration and loss of bone density

in a single month in space, astronauts can lose as much bone mass as a postmenopausal woman does in a year, according to NASA

you can loss 1-2% of your bone mass every month.

every second, fluids rush throughout our bodies, and for the earth-bound, gravity helps move these fluids down into the legs. but take away gravity, and the fluids float up to the head.

because of all these issues, pregnant woman are not permitted in the ISS - knowing what would happen to a human fetus in zero gravity.

plus i have objection to drink my own urine since spacecraft has very limited water reserves.

 

Constant thrust provides gravity.  A centrifuge provides gravity.    

 

Plus, like Matthew said, we are limited by what we can do now.  At one time it was impossible to fly.  Then they invented the airplane.  At one time it was impossible to go faster than the speed of sound, now planes do that every day.  

[Pjdriver]

On 2/28/2019 at 5:19 PM, Shawnster said:

Not to mention that, even though the Earth and Milky Way are traveling at such great speeds, the fact is that speed will never get humans closer to any other planets. 

I must have missed something here. Why can’t speed get us closer to other planets?

[tuntun]

3 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

I must have missed something here. Why can’t speed get us closer to other planets?

because they stay in their orbits that's why

just like a carousel. no matter how fast the carousel moves it won't take us anywhere.

[EccentricM]

1 hour ago, tuntun said:

because they stay in their orbits that's why

just like a carousel. no matter how fast the carousel moves it won't take us anywhere.

What about the rovers on Mars and other planets? Humans would travel the same way, just faster to shorten travel time.

[tuntun]

5 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Plus, like Matthew said, we are limited by what we can do now.  At one time it was impossible to fly.  Then they invented the airplane.  At one time it was impossible to go faster than the speed of sound, now planes do that every day.  

That's why i prefer the time travel than the space travel. Since time would move faster a lot than the speed of light (speed of light is a million time faster than speed of sound/hypersonic).

since God could predict the future precisely it must be He could travel to the past. Otherwise how could He say about something that hasn't happened yet?

That would save thousand if it is not million of unnecessary years.

[Dages]

Only God can "time travel". We will never be able to do that.

[Shawnster]

7 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

I must have missed something here. Why can’t speed get us closer to other planets?

Paul was explaining how fast the earth was moving. I wa replying to him. Yes, the earth is moving that fast and so is every human on earth.  What this means is that humans are not getting further away from the earth and closer to another planet.  Fact is everything in the universe is moving.  The distance between earth and another planet will never be so small that humans could walk or take an airplane.   Humans will always need a spaceship or some outside means to travel to another planet. 

 

The fact the earth and sun hurtle through the galaxy at incredible speeds is irrelevant. 

[Pjdriver]

2 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

What this means is that humans are not getting further away from the earth and closer to another planet. 

Ok, I misunderstood. I was thinking if we had some kind of craft to travel in. Thanks. 

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, tuntun said:

That's why i prefer the time travel than the space travel

I don't understand how time travel is faster. 

 

How does time travel get one to another planet?