2019 Service Year Report of Jehovah’s Witnesses Worldwide

[blueyellow]

2 hours ago, Bek said:

I think I would pick up Turkish in a couple of months 

 

Pick up Turkish in 2 months, wow! 

What is your native language? 

[Bek]

1 hour ago, blueyellow said:

 

Pick up Turkish in 2 months, wow! 

What is your native language? 

Well, it is Russian, but I also learnt Kyrgyz in my early teens, which is a Turkic language. Turkish and Kyrgyz are related, though from different Turkic language subgroups. Turkish is from the Oghuz subgroup and Kyrgyz is from the Kipchak subgroup. 

 

Usually when you know one Turkic language, you can pick up others fairly quickly. Sometimes the level of mutual intelligibility is so high that you can understand another language automatically. For example, a speaker of Kyrgyz can understand Kazakh, Karakalpak, Kumyk, Balkar, and Karachay quite well. Tatar, Crimean, Bashkir and Altay are also fairly close.  Uzbek, Uighur, Turkmen and Azeri will probably take a few weeks of exposure to start understanding the language well. 

 

Turkish is one of the furthest removed from Kyrgyz and it may take from a couple of months to half a year or more to learn to speak it depending on a person's ability. I have seen a chart where it said that Kyrgyz and Turkish have about 30% mutual intelligibility. The main difference is in pronunciations and vocabulary, but the grammar is largely similar.  

 

I have been exposed to some of the languages above and the combined knowledge of them and Arabic make it simpler for me to pick up a new Turkic language, in this case, Turkish. 

 

Are you learning Turkish?

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Bek

[blueyellow]

22 minutes ago, Bek said:

Are you learning Turkish?

No, I'm not.

My language has a few words in common with Turkish, but that's the extent of it. 

[jwhess]

4 hours ago, careful said:

yes you are right it is a privilege to do the work we do. so I should have worded my post differently.  There are so many people coming in and sadly so many people leaving.   does that take away the element that you are objecting to?

No objection to your comment. We got the feeling you were trying to express.  It is just a reminder of our place in God's great purpose.  If we we were almost "perfect" in our preaching and teaching ability it would not change the outcomes.  Jehovah draws them and helps us teach them.  God examines their hearts (not us).  If the student who has dedicated his life to God changes his mind, there is nothing we can do to reverse that and God takes the breach of faithfulness seriously.  The end result may be disfellowshipping and no amount of work on our part can make that into a "happy ending".  So we work the best we can, we rely on God's Spirit, we put into practice every suggestion from the GB and then leave the outcome in the hands of the Great Teacher.

 

Jesus' perfect teaching and perfect example could not reverse Judas' course.

[Foxes53]

Another interesting statistic from this years report. Papua New Guinea had a peak of 5,281 with a 13% increase. But their Memorial Attendance was a staggering 43,275 !

Based on that ratio my congregation of approx. 130 would have around 1,000 at the memorial.

[Hugh O'D]

Ok, numbers don't tell the full picture. For instance, the number of Congregations is dropping because the Society is consolidating congregations to reduce the need for Kingdom Halls and cut expenses, that I understand. (In my Hall we had a new Language congregation formed while another was split into two groups and merged with other congregations).

 

But I really thought with the new conversation method the number of Bible Studies would be up as we work on starting a Bible Study by about the 3rd visit, I know they are up in my congregation. But they're way down??? Anyone any idea what I'm missing here?

[Hugh O'D]

16 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

I really thought with the new conversation method the number of Bible Studies would be up as we work on starting a Bible Study by about the 3rd visit, I know they are up in my congregation. But they're way down??? Anyone any idea what I'm missing here?

Ah: @Dages commentated on this in the 2019 Service Year thread

 

"nice 500k drop in aver bible studies... so we are dropping the non advancing ones. good application of what we were told"

 

That would be an explanation. Cheers David

[Thesauron]

Ah: [mention=328]Dages[/mention] commentated on this in the 2019 Service Year thread
 
"nice 500k drop in aver bible studies... so we are dropping the non advancing ones. good application of what we were told"
 
That would be an explanation. Cheers David

It is true. Starting a bible study isn’t hard. But finding the people who are truly thirsting for truth is a whole different matter. Also, quality is much better than quantity. We have great methods to quickly find (and finish unproductive) bible studies. There are many congregations who have not seen anyone coming in from the field in 30 years or more. Are they doing something wrong? No. As long as they do their best searching for people, they are doing a fine job.

[Brother Brother]

On 12/16/2019 at 8:44 PM, Dages said:

I did the math again, as the mortality rate is 8,33/1000, for 8,6m JW, that's a little bit more than 70k death per year, so that would be 80k DF

When I was in Bethel, which was last millennium, but we were often told the rate of death is very similar to DF...

 

About 1% for each.

[Bek]

On 12/16/2019 at 3:44 PM, Dages said:

I did the math again, as the mortality rate is 8,33/1000, for 8,6m JW, that's a little bit more than 70k death per year, so that would be 80k DF

I don't think all of 80k gets DFed. The figure should also include those who voluntarily dissociate themselves and temporarily become inactive. 

 

However, despite the anti-JW propaganda and number of DFs, brotherhood is still growing at a good pace, which is evidence of God's support and fulfillment of his words that he will make a might nation out of a small group. When I learnt that there were only about 50,000 publishers a 100 years ago, I was blown away by the amazing growth since then.  

 

Incidentally, today's daily text is taken from an WT article about why some fall away and what to do to stay in the truth. 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Bek

[Dages]

7 hours ago, Bek said:

I don't think all of 80k gets DFed. The figure should also include those who voluntarily dissociate themselves and temporarily become inactive. 

Very true.

And I love the rest of your message

 

[jwhess]

8 hours ago, Bek said:

I don't think all of 80k gets DFed. The figure should also include those who voluntarily dissociate themselves and temporarily become inactive. 

Incidentally, today's daily text is taken from an WT article about why some fall away and what to do to stay in the truth. 

The Totals are unknown of course. 

 

It is good to remind ourselves that disfellowshipping and disassociation are the same thing (the only difference is who initiates the action).  Now those who become inactive are still baptized publishers who are simply not reporting field service and can use our help.  The other two categories are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses in any capacity and are not counted among us nor associated with.

[SteEis]

And some of those who are not reporting are ill or to aged, or just prevented for a while (e.g. while being comatose).

[Luigi62]

On 1/14/2020 at 5:02 AM, jwhess said:

The Totals are unknown of course. 

 

It is good to remind ourselves that disfellowshipping and disassociation are the same thing (the only difference is who initiates the action).  Now those who become inactive are still baptized publishers who are simply not reporting field service and can use our help.  The other two categories are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses in any capacity and are not counted among us nor associated with.

I thought disassociation and inactive people are the same, these ones have slowly drifted away from the organisation. Disfellowshiped ones have formally said they no longer want to be witnesses.

[Hugh O'D]

1 hour ago, Luigi62 said:

I thought disassociation and inactive people are the same, these ones have slowly drifted away from the organisation. Disfellowshiped ones have formally said they no longer want to be witnesses.

We (let's be precise, it may just have been me, there was a girl) used to class Disassociated with Inactive but there was an item back in the 90's showing that both the Dis's want nothing to do with Jehovah or his people. The Disfellowshipped are expelled, the Disassociated walk away saying "Don't call me".

 

Someone Inactive may have "disassociated" in their hearts but they're keeping quiet so they can continue to associate with family etc. Jehovah will deal with them in time. So:

 

DisFellowshipped: Known to have sinned, unrepentant, Expelled from Congregation.

DisAssociated: Have probably sinned but irrelevant. They've said they want nothing more to do with us. Treat like above.

Inactive: Something wrong in their lives that we may not know about. But they haven't declared they don't want to be with Jehovah or his people, and will even attend some or all meetings etc. There can be more hope for them than the others.

Disassociated but Pretending to be Inactive: No interest in Jehovah or his people, hiding their real feelings to continue association with family/friends. Have to beware of them, only Jehovah can read hearts but we don't have to be stupid.

 

I've dealt with all 4 types. They're all annoying, just in different ways.On the other hand, I'm also annoying 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Hugh O'D
I is not We

[jwhess]

4 hours ago, Hugh O'D said:

We (let's be precise, it may just have been me, there was a girl) used to class Disassociated with Inactive but there was an item back in the 90's showing that both the Dis's want nothing to do with Jehovah or his people. The Disfellowshipped are expelled, the Disassociated walk away saying "Don't call me".

 

Someone Inactive may have "disassociated" in their hearts but they're keeping quiet so they can continue to associate with family etc. Jehovah will deal with them in time. So:

 

DisFellowshipped: Known to have sinned, unrepentant, Expelled from Congregation.

DisAssociated: Have probably sinned but irrelevant. They've said they want nothing more to do with us. Treat like above.

Inactive: Something wrong in their lives that we may not know about. But they haven't declared they don't want to be with Jehovah or his people, and will even attend some or all meetings etc. There can be more hope for them than the others.

Disassociated but Pretending to be Inactive: No interest in Jehovah or his people, hiding their real feelings to continue association with family/friends. Have to beware of them, only Jehovah can read hearts but we don't have to be stupid.

 

I've dealt with all 4 types. They're all annoying, just in different ways.On the other hand, I'm also annoying 

To add to the definition of Disassociated...remember that a person can display an Unchristian conduct and even refuse to contact the congregation.  For example: a person might join the military or the former publisher might run for political office or they might start an organization to advocate homosexuality or support a violent gang.  these people are said to have "disassociated themselves" and we might never even get to say anything to them.

 

So as it applies to the congregation...the disfellowshipped and the disassociated publishers are the same.  their treatment is the same and the only way back to God;s favor is the same.  They need to repent, change their life course and show positive action.  Then they can apply for reinstatement.   Until then they do not belong to us (even if they are relatives. We do not associate with them nor do regular publishers call on them.

 

If you were inactive, them the elders and publishers would be over to support you, assist you, comfort you, encourage you to come to a more active role in god's organization.  then when you respond, we assist in getting you back in service (to be active).  This is completely different from disassociation.

 

Organized book chapter 14 paragraph 30 page 152..."The term “disassociation” applies to the action taken by a person who is a baptized Witness but deliberately repudiates his Christian standing by stating that he no longer wants to be recognized as, or known as, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Or he might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to Bible teachings and therefore is under judgment by Jehovah God.—Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21"

 

Organized book chapter 14 paragraph 32 page 152..."When a person disassociates himself, his situation before Jehovah is far different from that of an inactive Christian, one who no longer shares in the field ministry. A person may have become inactive because he failed to study God’s Word regularly. Or perhaps he experienced personal problems or persecution and lost his zeal for serving Jehovah. The elders as well as others in the congregation will continue to render appropriate spiritual assistance to an inactive Christian.—Rom. 15:1; 1 Thess. 5:14; Heb. 12:12."

[Tortuga]

6 hours ago, Hugh O'D said:

We (let's be precise, it may just have been me, there was a girl) used to class Disassociated with Inactive but there was an item back in the 90's showing that both the Dis's want nothing to do with Jehovah or his people. The Disfellowshipped are expelled, the Disassociated walk away saying "Don't call me".

Let me illustrate that and please let me know if the illustration can be improved.

 

An employee that violates a company policy can be terminated 'fired', they are disfellowshipped from the company.

 

An employee may be violating company policy and decided to quit their job before they get fired. They disassociate themselves from the company.

 

An employee may be ill or pretending to be ill and aren't showing up to work but are still technically still employed. They are inactive employees.

 

Your 4th group would be the ones that are still getting sick pay while working for another company 😳

[Bob]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:34 AM, Bek said:

I don't think all of 80k gets DFed. The figure should also include those who voluntarily dissociate themselves and temporarily become inactive. 

 

However, despite the anti-JW propaganda and number of DFs, brotherhood is still growing at a good pace, which is evidence of God's support and fulfillment of his words that he will make a might nation out of a small group. When I learnt that there were only about 50,000 publishers a 100 years ago, I was blown away by the amazing growth since then.  

 

Incidentally, today's daily text is taken from an WT article about why some fall away and what to do to stay in the truth. 

 

That's a good stat. And as you say, growth is growth. People act like JWs are an American religion that rely on American growth. Frankly, we don't care where the growth comes from. Jesus certainly said Jehovah reveals the truth to "humble" ones, not Americans.  

Edited January 24, 2020 by Bob

[Bek]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

That's a good stat. And as you say, growth is growth. People act like JWs are an American religion that rely on American growth. Frankly, we don't care where the growth comes from. Jesus certainly said Jehovah reveals the truth to "humble" ones, not Americans.  

Some people, especially outside the West, say that JWs are an American religion mainly because of the HQ in the US. I have not heard "American growth" used a reason yet. You're the first one to say that to me. Plus, many falsely believe that the HQ provides funding. 

 

As for growth, I agree. Interestingly, America has not seen much growth over the last 10 years. By my calculations, there has been an increase of only about 80,000 in the last decade. Do you know why? 

 

 

[careful]

again maybe because of the disfellowshipping stats.  

[Bob]

5 hours ago, Bek said:

Some people, especially outside the West, say that JWs are an American religion mainly because of the HQ in the US. I have not heard "American growth" used a reason yet. You're the first one to say that to me. Plus, many falsely believe that the HQ provides funding. 

 

As for growth, I agree. Interestingly, America has not seen much growth over the last 10 years. By my calculations, there has been an increase of only about 80,000 in the last decade. Do you know why? 

 

 

The nation as a whole is less religious and less religious inclined. I was watching a political program about 3 weeks ago, and in or around the year 2000, about 65 percent of Americans said they attended religious services weekly. In 2019, it was just over 30 percent. 

 

That's a massive drop. 

 

I think that plays a massive role in retention and interest. I was not always a JW. And I understand that. When I was in the world, religion wasn't something I thought about. I was too busy working and gaming all night. The world will endlessly distract you with stuff to do that are opposed to interest in God and preaching. In fact, religion appears boring. 

 

So I think that people would rather live a way that allows them all the moral freedom they want. Religion generally doesn't give you that.   

[Dages]

There can be invisible growth with brothers and sisters going abroad to preach. That's what is happening in Japan. 0% for years, they are going to South-east Asia

[SteEis]

Official an inactive person is a person who does not give any report at least through six months, and the term inactive does not show why. For example an older brother/sister who is not able to preach because of his health is also counted as inactive after six months non-reporting.

 

@Hugh O'D And there is one more group of peoples: the irregular persons. They does not report each months. When they do not report less than six months, they are called irregular. So if someone stops to preach, then he is irregular for five months and inactive after the sixth month. But for beeing irregular there are also reasons which are alright (e.g. we have a brother who was in coma for some days and in hospital for two months last year and was irregular for these two months).

[jwhess]

All new publishers are "irregular" until they report for 6 consecutive months (and we like that progress).  When I was a young elder, I mentioned to a CO that I would like to get the irregular count down to "zero".  He looked surprised and said NO.  If it got to zero we would have no new ones and the older publishers would have died or quit preaching.  Not something to look forward to.  I learned my lesson.

[Hugh O'D]

3 hours ago, SteEis said:

@Hugh O'D And there is one more group of peoples: the irregular persons

🙇‍♂️Master! Thanks for the Clarification.