Russia invades Ukraine

[Allabord4Jah]

The president of Ukraine, Zelansky, wasn't he a comic before he went into politics? 

[Hugh O'D]

2 hours ago, Allabord4Jah said:

The president of Ukraine, Zelansky, wasn't he a comic before he went into politics? 

Yes, before going for president he had a series called "Servant of the People" where he played the President, it's been suggested this was preparing the population for his political move. Either way he'd a long comedy career before going for politics.

 

Not sure why you raised this point so I'll just add that he wasn't as popular pre war, for example some wanted more military spending which he wouldn't do. It's since the war began his national and international reputation has gone through the roof. I pity and admire him if that makes sense.

[Hugh O'D]

2 hours ago, Allabord4Jah said:

The president of Ukraine, Zelansky, wasn't he a comic before he went into politics? 

Because I have to be OTT I have to add that his comedy Servant of the people is available on Netflix and some on YouTube (get the English subtitles). However there is swearing in the little bit I watched so I'm not recommending it, funny but f words. 

[Tortuga]

34 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

Yes, before going for president he had a series called "Servant of the People" where he played the President, 

Are there any conspiracy theories that he is still acting and working for Putin? What a way to draw out and test the UN, NATO and the US. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Tortuga

[Hugh O'D]

51 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Are there any conspiracy theories that he is still acting and working for Putin? What a way to draw out and test the UN, NATO and the US. 

I see the scene:

 

Emperor Putin: Well my young apprentice, how goes our plan? 

 

Lord Zelansky: Well my Master, my thralls are slaughtering your generals, humiliating your army, exhausting your missile stocks, handing your military technology to your enemies and ruining your economy. Soon the world will have to bow in submission to you, or at least they'll be rolling on the ground before you for some reason.

 

Emperor Putin: You have done well Darth Comedius, um perhaps a bit too well, but a plan is a plan after all. 

[Sofia]

Ukrainian parliament receives draft of law against Moscow church

"Another draft law concerning a prohibition of the UPTs (Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate) has been registered. It is No. 7213 of 26 March 2022 introducing changes into the Ukrainian law "On freedom of conscience and religious organizations. The amendments regard a ban on the activity of religious organizations that are members of the structure (are a part) of a religious organization (association) whose ruling center (administration) is outside the borders of Ukraine in a state that is recognized as conducting armed aggression against Ukraine and/or temporarily occupying a part of the territory of Ukraine.

 

Source: https://www2.stetson.edu/religious-news/220327a.html

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sofia

[Sofia]

9 hours ago, Sofia said:

Ukrainian parliament receives draft of law against Moscow church

"Another draft law concerning a prohibition of the UPTs (Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate) has been registered. It is No. 7213 of 26 March 2022 introducing changes into the Ukrainian law "On freedom of conscience and religious organizations. The amendments regard a ban on the activity of religious organizations that are members of the structure (are a part) of a religious organization (association) whose ruling center (administration) is outside the borders of Ukraine in a state that is recognized as conducting armed aggression against Ukraine and/or temporarily occupying a part of the territory of Ukraine.

 

Source: https://www2.stetson.edu/religious-news/220327a.html

I dont know if this will lead to a new topic, but the Russian Orth. Ch has responded: 

"Taking into consideration the general tenseness of the political and social situation in Ukraine, the adoption of such an extremely radical law could result in widespread inter-confessional confrontation with unpredictable consequences"

source: https://www2.stetson.edu/religious-news/220329a.html

[Hugh O'D]

10 hours ago, Sofia said:

Another draft law concerning a prohibition of the UPTs (Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate) has been registered.

One of the threads here at the start of the war showed there was widespread distrust of the monasteries etc of the ROC in Ukraine with locals feeling they're spies for the Russians, I guess this is a reaction to this. Problem from Ukraine's side is they've been presenting themselves as Liberal multi cultural tolerant to drum up international support and this would clash with that. We'll see. 

[Sofia]

A bit off topic ... but:

Putin is supported by the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). Patriarch Kirill describes the Ukrainian war as “a crusade to safeguard Orthodox values and the unity of the faithful.”

Putin has reportedly showered the ROC with gifts like a 6-acre walled complex, including a luxurious former imperial residence, complete with a $43 million renovation budget. Putin provided Kirill with a 100-foot luxury yacht, a luxury railroad car, and other favors.

https://www.timesnews.net/opinion/blogs/church-supports-putin-as-he-showers-it-with-gifts/article_b66bf9da-b033-11ec-9185-0f425902ff8e.html

[blue-jay]

45 minutes ago, Sofia said:

 

Putin has reportedly showered the ROC with gifts like a 6-acre walled complex, including a luxurious former imperial residence, complete with a $43 million renovation budget. Putin provided Kirill with a 100-foot luxury yacht, a luxury railroad car, ...

How fitting that the Bible calls Babylon the Great a prostitute!

[Dustparticle]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

A bit off topic ... but:

Putin is supported by the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). Patriarch Kirill describes the Ukrainian war as “a crusade to safeguard Orthodox values and the unity of the faithful.”

Putin has reportedly showered the ROC with gifts like a 6-acre walled complex, including a luxurious former imperial residence, complete with a $43 million renovation budget. Putin provided Kirill with a 100-foot luxury yacht, a luxury railroad car, and other favors.

https://www.timesnews.net/opinion/blogs/church-supports-putin-as-he-showers-it-with-gifts/article_b66bf9da-b033-11ec-9185-0f425902ff8e.html

Remind of Revelation 17:2

[Saffron]

I don't know where to put this. Since we are now talking about shameless weath of BTG, and the Pope has inserted himself into this conflict, I guess it's okay here. 

 

Worshippers donated to these people, they tried to invest, then went on to lose hundreds of millions of dollars. 

 

They seem to be operating like any other business, except for the fact that their funding comes from tax-free donations gifted by people who think they are doing something for God. They also  have the luxury of being greedy and sloppy, while normal business owners have to be careful so they can afford their huge tax bills and still have money to invest. 

 

I remember a WT article questioning whether their wealth would be used as a reason to justify the destruction.. which would be hilarious when it comes to Russia. "Here is a 100 ft yacht. Enjoy! "Nevermind, give that back along with your fancy railroad car." 🤣🤣

 

https://news.yahoo.com/pope-approved-payment-vatican-exit-193313588.html

 

[GeordieGirl]

It is fascinating, and not in a good way, how cyber-spy technology is good for 'us' but not for 'them'?  This world is so secretive, devious and confusing.  Imitating their god.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin is being misled by advisers who are too scared to tell him how badly the war in Ukraine is going, the White House says.

 

 

Meanwhile British intelligence says Russian troops in Ukraine are demoralised, short of equipment and refusing to carry out orders.

 

Mr Putin is also not being told about the full impact of sanctions on the Russian economy, the White House said.

...... Mr Putin "felt misled by the Russian military" and this had resulted in "persistent tension between Putin and his military leadership".

"Putin's war has been a strategic blunder that has left Russia weaker over the long term and increasingly isolated on the world stage," ....

 

Jeremy Fleming, the head of the UK's cyber-intelligence agency GCHQ, said the move added to indications Russia had "massively misjudged the situation" and had been forced to "significantly rethink".

 

"We've seen Russian soldiers - short of weapons and morale - refusing to carry out orders, sabotaging their own equipment and even accidentally shooting down their own aircraft," Mr Fleming said in a speech to the Australian National University in Canberra.

"And even though Putin's advisers are afraid to tell him the truth, what's going on and the extent of these misjudgements must be crystal clear to the regime."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117

[GeordieGirl]

On 3/29/2022 at 9:31 PM, Sofia said:

Ukrainian parliament receives draft of law against Moscow church

"Another draft law concerning a prohibition of the UPTs (Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate) has been registered. It is No. 7213 of 26 March 2022 introducing changes into the Ukrainian law "On freedom of conscience and religious organizations. The amendments regard a ban on the activity of religious organizations that are members of the structure (are a part) of a religious organization (association) whose ruling center (administration) is outside the borders of Ukraine in a state that is recognized as conducting armed aggression against Ukraine and/or temporarily occupying a part of the territory of Ukraine.

 

Source: https://www2.stetson.edu/religious-news/220327a.html

This might be a good place to put these sorts of posts as this isn't really to do with the war. More to do with religion.  

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GeordieGirl

[BLEmom]

1 hour ago, GeordieGirl said:

It is fascinating, and not in a good way, how cyber-spy technology is good for 'us' but not for 'them'?  This world is so secretive, devious and confusing.  Imitating their god.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin is being misled by advisers who are too scared to tell him how badly the war in Ukraine is going, the White House says.

 

 

Meanwhile British intelligence says Russian troops in Ukraine are demoralised, short of equipment and refusing to carry out orders.

 

Mr Putin is also not being told about the full impact of sanctions on the Russian economy, the White House said.

...... Mr Putin "felt misled by the Russian military" and this had resulted in "persistent tension between Putin and his military leadership".

"Putin's war has been a strategic blunder that has left Russia weaker over the long term and increasingly isolated on the world stage," ....

 

Jeremy Fleming, the head of the UK's cyber-intelligence agency GCHQ, said the move added to indications Russia had "massively misjudged the situation" and had been forced to "significantly rethink".

 

"We've seen Russian soldiers - short of weapons and morale - refusing to carry out orders, sabotaging their own equipment and even accidentally shooting down their own aircraft," Mr Fleming said in a speech to the Australian National University in Canberra.

"And even though Putin's advisers are afraid to tell him the truth, what's going on and the extent of these misjudgements must be crystal clear to the regime."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117

This seems so bizarre to me. A documentary I watched on Putin said he pours over any news about himself. Made it sound as if he’s almost obsessed  with the way he is viewed. Wouldn’t the problems with the military be part of the news he sees? 🤷🏻‍♀️

[MichiganMan]

This seems so bizarre to me. A documentary I watched on Putin said he pours over any news about himself. Made it sound as if he’s almost obsessed  with the way he is viewed. Wouldn’t the problems with the military be part of the news he sees?

There is so much propaganda in the media, I have become skeptical of much of what I see reported.

The “ghost of Kyiv” was a propaganda story repeated in many news outlets and is still believed by some even now as an example.

Perhaps the reports about how poorly Russia is doing are true, or perhaps they are stories designed to demoralize Russian troops and leaders, much like Tokyo Rose in WWII. The reports also keep governments buying more weapons and sending Billions of $ to Ukraine.

All we can do is pray for our brothers in both sides that Jehovah will help them endure, keep neutral, and maintain integrity.


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[GeordieGirl]

1 hour ago, BLEmom said:

This seems so bizarre to me. A documentary I watched on Putin said he pours over any news about himself. Made it sound as if he’s almost obsessed  with the way he is viewed. Wouldn’t the problems with the military be part of the news he sees? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I remember hearing about that somewhere, too.  But I do wonder, the Russian media being as controlled as it is, if any of these problems are being reported either on TV or in newspapers.  They wouldn't want their citizens to hear about it so it is hardly likely to be in the mainstream media.  Therefore, if it's not being reported, Putin couldn't read about it and the only place he could get information is through his ministers and generals.

1 hour ago, MichiganMan said:

There is so much propaganda in the media, I have become skeptical of much of what I see reported.

 

The “ghost of Kyiv” was a propaganda story repeated in many news outlets and is still believed by some even now as an example.

Perhaps the reports about how poorly Russia is doing are true, or perhaps they are stories designed to demoralize Russian troops and leaders, much like Tokyo Rose in WWII. The reports also keep governments buying more weapons and sending Billions of $ to Ukraine.

All we can do is pray for our brothers in both sides that Jehovah will help them endure, keep neutral, and maintain integrity.


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I agree - the progaganda is out of control.

 

The 'ghost of Kyiv' story - I had to that look up because I'd never even heard of it -  was exactly that, a fiction spread around on unreliable places including social media, but not actually on any media outlets that report with a modicum of  responsibility. From the sources I found it on, it seems that any responsible news sources were refuting the propaganda and saying it was false.

 

If we're going to read news from spurious sources then we will end up reading spurious rubbish and lies. This is why the slave has warned us about what we read and where we get our information from, and have given us criteria on which to base our judgement of whether something is fact or fiction.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/conspiracy-theories-misinformation/

 

However, I can't imagine that the BBC is going to quote either The White House or the head of the UK's cyber-intelligence agency GCHQ, and name him, if he didn't actually say what they reported him saying.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by GeordieGirl

[Shawnster]

9 hours ago, MichiganMan said:

Perhaps the reports about how poorly Russia is doing are true, or perhaps they are stories designed to demoralize Russian troops and leaders, much like Tokyo Rose in WWII.

Facts are facts, though.  Tokyo Rose in WWII didn't have the technology and 24 hour media coverage we have today.  It was easy then to fabricate lies about battles in far away places when the actual news took a long time to travel. 

 

Propaganda today works differently.  Russia's lack of advancing in Ukraine is clear for the world to see.  No propaganda there.  Kyiv hasn't fallen.  Russia hasn't taken Ukraine. This war is clearly not going as planned or expected. 

 

Ghost of Kyiv is a good example of a possible piece of propaganda.  It's an unverifiable story. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Shawnster

[MichiganMan]

I agree - the progaganda is out of control.
 
The 'ghost of Kyiv' story - I had to that look up because I'd never even heard of it -  was exactly that, a fiction spread around on unreliable places including social media, but not actually on any media outlets that report with a modicum of  responsibility. From the sources I found it on, it seems that any responsible news sources were refuting the propaganda and saying it was false.
 
If we're going to read news from spurious sources then we will end up reading spurious rubbish and lies. This is why the slave has warned us about what we read and where we get our information from, and have given us criteria on which to base our judgement of whether something is fact or fiction.
 
https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/conspiracy-theories-misinformation/
 
However, I can't imagine that the BBC is going to quote either The White House or the head of the UK's cyber-intelligence agency GCHQ, and name him, if he didn't actually say what they reported him saying.
 
 
 
 

The article does not say trust a particular news source. While the BBC probably does better on average with facts, No news media is immune to propaganda. For example what the BBC life sciences says about evolution is rubbish.

Here in the US mainstream media is in a race to be “first” to report something and get it wrong frequently. It was mainstream media that reported “ghost of Kiev” and then backtracked here in the US. They also reported Covid was nothing worse than seasonal flu in Feb 2020, then they were reporting vaccines could be dangerous because they were pushed through by then President Trump. They reported vaccines are months away just days before approval. Then said once you are vaccinated you cannot catch or spread Covid… seems they were wrong more than right. Likewise it was reported that the BBC was spinning Covid reporting providing cover for Tory government.

We could go into misrepresentation of Jehovah’s witnesses in the media as another example. False accusation reported in France mainstream media comes to mind.

We need to be careful because the warning about propaganda from Gods organization does not carve out exemptions for the BBC, PBS, CNN or other “news agencies”. State sponsored news and private news organization often have agendas so we are wise to not put too much confidence that the truth is alway the primary motivator.

All I was saying is I am skeptical because something seems a bit off. Maybe Russias military strength was misrepresented and they are not as powerful as everyone thought, or reports of Russian military failure is overblown. Time will tell. All we can do is stay neutral and keep our dear brothers in that part of the world in our prayers.



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[MichiganMan]

Propaganda today works differently.  Russia's lack of advancing in Ukraine is clear for the world to see.  No propaganda there.  Kyiv hasn't fallen.  Russia hasn't taken Ukraine. This war is clearly not going as planned or expected. 



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[Tortuga]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Propaganda today works differently.  Russia's lack of advancing in Ukraine is clear for the world to see.  No propaganda there.  Kyiv hasn't fallen.  Russia hasn't taken Ukraine. This war is clearly not going as planned or expected. 

The facts are there but the reasons for them may or may not be presented accurately. We have talked a lot about how the King of the South will put a spin on what is happening. I'm agreeing with you but I also think that the KoS is mixing opinion, propaganda and facts together to make the news.

[coolbrz731]

One thing that warms my heart, is that our Russian friends know what's going on.  Every time I tell my friend Vladislav, who lives in Kazan, one of the experiences of our brothers in Ukraine, or the latest blunder that the Russians troops have done, I get a reply back that says he's already heard those stories.  Even when I tell him ones I heard on here, he knows!  I love the fact that the Russians and Ukrainians can say such detailed prayers for each other because they know what's going on.

Edited April 1, 2022 by coolbrz731
punctuation

[MichiganMan]

Facts are facts, though.  Tokyo Rose in WWII didn't have the technology and 24 hour media coverage we have today.  It was easy then to fabricate lies about battles in far away places when the actual news took a long time to travel. 
 
Propaganda today works differently.  Russia's lack of advancing in Ukraine is clear for the world to see.  No propaganda there.  Kyiv hasn't fallen.  Russia hasn't taken Ukraine. This war is clearly not going as planned or expected. 
 
Ghost of Kyiv is a good example of a possible piece of propaganda.  It's an unverifiable story. 

No revelation that propaganda works differently today - lol.

24x7 media and the race to break stories leads to cutting corners, using stock video, and even reporting “unconfirmed” stories.

Russia disputes reports we hear as propaganda, and the west disputes Russian reports as propaganda.

Let’s not forget that this is Satans world. Big business (arms dealers, Energy companies, media) all play a part and are not disinterested parties with hundreds of Billions changing hands. Governments are depicted as beasts in the Bible and use whatever lies they need to tell to further their agenda.

If we don’t think the reporting could be slanted, then we are fooling ourselves.

Prob 15:14 “the Naive one believes every word”…


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[Sofia]

IN A MONTH OF WAR 60 UKRAINIAN CHURCHES AND RELIGIOUS FACILITIES ALREADY DESTROYED...

https://www2.stetson.edu/religious-news/220330c.html

[Hugh O'D]

8 hours ago, Tortuga said:

I also think that the KoS is mixing opinion, propaganda and facts together to make the news.

I remember one news article claiming the reason the Ukrainians have held out was because they've been receiving training from the US army. I'm sure they have received training but that didn't help the Afghanistan army (yes I know it's a deep subject). Success has a thousand fathers, failure is an orphan.