Gunman opens fire in German city of Hamburg - Brothers and Sisters Wounded

[Amygdala]

24 minutes ago, Woanders said:

The article went on to describe that the quick reaction of this special unit prevented what could have been way more loss of life at the kingdom hall, considering the number of ammunition the man had at his disposal. Something in the area of 200 ammunition.

 

I should preface this info that I got from reading other news articles or watching the German news about it.

[futurepromise]

43 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

The bbc I think talked to him. 
 

Hamburg Jehovah's Witnesses in shock after mass shooting https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64932138

 

By Jenny Hill

BBC News, Hamburg

 

In a brightly lit hall on an industrial estate, rows of empty chairs are arranged in front of a plain wooden lectern.

Hamburg's Jehovah's witnesses have cancelled all services following Thursday's deadly shooting in another meeting hall in the city which claimed seven lives, including that of an unborn child.

The attack took place shortly after worshippers finished their service. Police have told them that they cannot rule out the possibility of a so-called copycat attack, says Michael Tsifidaris, who speaks for the community here.

He's smartly dressed in a business suit, but looks exhausted. It's clear that he's still deeply shaken. Two of his friends were killed in the attack.

He tells us he spent Thursday night with survivors in hospital, and at the police station. But he also comforted relatives as they waited in a hastily arranged emergency centre for news of their loved ones.

"It's hard to imagine - a group of people are sitting together during an evening in the church, reading the Bible, singing, praying together. Then they spend a couple of minutes together to talk to each other after the meeting, Then, all of a sudden, a scene of love becomes a scene of hate and death."

 

The fact that the killer was a former member of the Jehovah's Witness community here makes the tragedy particularly hard to bear.

There are about 4,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in and around Hamburg. The community is divided into smaller congregations, each with their own meeting place, known as a Kingdom Hall.

Detectives investigating the mass shooting have said the killer left the Jehovah's Witnesses on terms which were "not good".

Mr Tsifidaris says he doesn't know why the man left, didn't know him personally, and appears reluctant to talk about him.

Those who leave the Jehovah's Witnesses are often "disassociated" or cut off by most members of the community; a practice sometimes referred to as "shunning".

The police have revealed they recently received an anonymous letter, in which the author warned the attacker had a gun, was mentally unstable and harboured anger against religious groups, including the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

"He left the community two years ago and now, all of a sudden, he's showing up and is acting against all the principles we stand for," says Mr Tsifidaris.

"What we know is that in the religious context, there is a community he knows, there is a community he was part of, so this is a community he focused his hate on. He knew the premises, he knew the arrangements."

For now, the community is meeting online. Mr Tsifidaris, who refers to his fellow members as brothers and sisters, speaks often of the comfort to be found in supporting one another. "We pray together, we cry together."

Uppermost in their thoughts are those who remain seriously injured in hospital. He's adamant that their treatment is not compromised by a refusal to accept blood transfusions - Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God forbids this.

They are not yet out of danger, he tells us, but the doctors say there's a fair chance most will survive.

For now, the focus is on supporting the bereaved and the traumatised. No one, he says, is left alone in their grief.

 

This attack has left a city in mourning and a community in shock and horror. It will, says Mr Tsifidaris, take years to heal.

[futurepromise]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/jehovahs-witness-mass-shooter-in-hamburg-named-as-philipp-fusz/ar-AA18rPa8

 

The Telegraph has identified the killer as Philip Fusz, freelance consultant whose business website describes him as an expert in the finance and energy sectors.

[Miss Bea]

This is so horrible. It has ramifications throughout the earth. Broken hearts, and, so many prayers.

We have a newish KH. No windows, and a glass door. There are cameras on the parking lot. We are right off the highway, so there is probably potential. There is a brother whose job is to monitor that camera, and he goes out to check on the parking lot, regularly.

We had one drunk person try to come in the hall, during the meeting. Nope! Then he ran over our big Kingdom Hall sign. Destroyed it.

There’s a few of us that sit in the back row. The chairs are more comfortable for ones with, well, skeletal problems.

We are right in line if someone does want to do us harm. Both of us are in our late 70’s. We decided we were not going to move. No fear in our hall. Plus, we’d rather be done in than the younger ones who do so much for us. 
There is a line from something I remember. “These are the times that try men’s souls”. It’s not entirely, totally true, but, it came to my mind.

[Loopy]

This got me thinking:
 

Although our Kingdom Hall is right near the main road, to get to the driveway one has to turn onto another road for a very short distance to get to the parking lot.

 

But in the summer, one could easily just park on the shoulder of the road and walk a very short distance to be right next to the building. 😬

 

We have 2 attendants each meeting. One sits in the entrance room and one sits inside the auditorium by the doors.

 

I’m beginning to think having cameras to watch the parking lots is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, we don’t have any set up right now.
 

But this makes me wonder how long it will be before that is the direction all congregations will receive. 
 

 

[Skye]

1 hour ago, Woanders said:

The article went on to describe that the quick reaction of this special unit prevented what could have been way more loss of life at the kingdom hall.....

 

Comments from the article show that the Germans are actually praising the police for their quick reaction and response to the first emergency calls. This is a different unit of forces to the regular street police officers. It is as a backup to rioting, and they are the unit called on in such extreme situations. Always planning ahead here in Germany.

 

We received (not official!) a Whatsapp message encouraging any who wished to write a thank you letter/postcard to USE Hamburg to do so. It was suggested to indicate where you are writing from (whatever one feels comfortable disclosing) so that they can see that the gratitude isn't only coming from Hamburg. A fine witness! If anyone is inclined, here is the address:

 

Landesbereitschaftspolizei 
Unterstützungsstreife für erschwerte Einsatzlagen
Bruno-Georges-Platz 2
22297 Hamburg

Edited March 12, 2023 by Skye

[futurepromise]

1,073 views Feb 24, 2015

Michael Tsifidaris, Chairman, KPS AG

Brother Tsifidaris on YouTube in 2015

 

 

[Skye]

Official spokesperson: All in-person activity in Hamburg stopped this weekend (all 47 congregations). The seriously injured are stable - they're not out of the woods yet - but we continue to pray that they survive. 

 

https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hamburg_journal/Amoktat-in-Hamburg-Gottesdienste-der-Zeugen-Jehovas-digital,hamj132752.html

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Skye

[New World Explorer]

Did brothers and sisters in Hamburg due to precaution temporarily went back to Zoom meetings? (fear of copycat attacks) 

I think I have read this somewhere..?

 

Edit: We have posted simultaneously. Got the answer in above post. Thanks 

Edited March 12, 2023 by New World Explorer

[futurepromise]

More information: https://wallmine.com/xetra/ksc/officer/2234026/michael-tsifidaris

 

Mr Tsifidaris is 52, he's been the Founder & Chairman of Supervisory Board of KPS AG 

What does KPS AG do?

KPS AG provides management consulting services in the areas of business transformation and process optimization in retail and consumer goods sectors in Germany and Europe. It offers advisory services on strategic, process, application, and technology issues relating to digital transformation, and supports its customers in rolling out and implementing solutions. The company also sells software licenses, maintenance contracts, and hardware components. KPS AG was founded in 1998 and is headquartered in Unterföhring, Germany.

 

[Parale]

72-hour SUMMARY

 

It's now been three days since this thread was started following the tragic events in Hamburg.

 

Initial news report of shooting "at a Jehovah's Witness centre" in Hamburg

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/

 

Kingdom Hall identified (the Hamburg-Winterhude congregation, later confirmed)

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=919834

 

Gunman believed to be among dead

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=919844

 

Initial video of armed police entering the Kingdom Hall

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=919871

 

Initial chronological timeline

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=919893

 

First Statement issued on official Jehovas Zeugen German website

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=919949

 

Press Conference (Video, with simultaneous English translaion)

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920004

 

Statement issued on JW.ORG: "BREAKING NEWS Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany"

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920005

 

Guardian (UK): Hamburg police were tipped off about gunman, but did not take his weapon

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920011

 

Article added to Wikipedia: "Hamburg shooting"

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920055

 

Washington Post (USA): Gunman who killed 6 at German Jehovah’s Witness hall known to authorities

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920058

 

German Government Officials lay flowers outside Kingdom Hall

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920089

 

U.S. Department of State issues Statement

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920142

 

"Rampage in Alsterdorf" front page of Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920147

 

"Rampage-Killer shoots Baby in Womb" front page of Bild newspaper

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920154

 

"Rampage of Hamburg, Anonymous Source warned about Perpetrator" front page of Der Tagesspiegel newspaper

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920164

 

"The youngest victim wasn't even born yet" front page of Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920329

 

The Observer (UK): Fury in Germany as Hamburg shooting brings ‘lax’ gun laws into focus

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920357

 

The Hamburg-Winterhude congregation attended online the 153th Gilead Graduation

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54424-graduation-of-the-153th-class-of-gilead/?do=findComment&comment=920373

 

Second Statement issued on official Jehovas Zeugen German website

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920438

 

Hamburg Morgenpost (Germany): New details on the rampage and the perpetrator

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920457

 

"Hamburg gunman 'an unhinged ex-Witness'" - Cairns Post (Australia) newspaper

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920488

 

Official JW Spokesperson Provides Update

https://jwtalk.net/topic/54468-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-city-of-hamburg-brothers-and-sisters-wounded/?do=findComment&comment=920501

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Parale

[More4me2do]

Can we Please give this topic a Rest!

 

It doesn't help anyone to constantly be reminded of the atrocities that were committed in a Kingdom Hall were true worship took place.

 

In addition Please DO NOT speculate on the motive of the shooter it serves no ones interest and only will disturb our peace.

[BLEmom]

Maybe ask the mods for a way to block the thread so you don’t have to see it. 

[Pabo]

40 minutes ago, Loopy said:

I’m beginning to think having cameras to watch the parking lots is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, we don’t have any set up right now.
 

But this makes me wonder how long it will be before that is the direction all congregations will receive. 

 

When we were getting the equipment to upgrade our audio and now visual aspect to out Kingdom Hall, we had purchased equipment that will allow us to to extend it to using camera's outside so we can monitor our car park and surrounding areas if we decided to do so.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Pabo

[BLEmom]

We have cameras outside but I think the brothers are getting a couple more. I had to come in late to midweek meeting this week. It was the night before the shooting. As I was walking in the parking lot by myself before the meeting in the dark, my thought went to being grateful that the brothers could see me making my way in just in case I got attacked in the parking lot. 
I think some lights are going to be updated or upgraded too which will help where we have to park. 
Lights and cameras are excellent deterrents to crime. 

[noah4]

We are mentioning you brothers in our prayers.

[hatcheckgirl]

Yes, there is a fine line between rehashing traumatic events, and consoling and comforting one another.

 

Maybe we can just focus on what’s going to happen going forward, and positive news regarding our friends affected there. And also, our brothers and sisters within Germany and Hamburg in particular would still be in shock. Now is the time to gather these ones collectively in a big hug of compassion and love.

 

Love bears all things, weep with those who weep.

[Parale]

28 minutes ago, More4me2do said:

It doesn't help anyone to constantly be reminded of the atrocities that were committed in a Kingdom Hall were true worship took place.

 

Yes, I can appreciate that, I like to take time off-line and enjoy IRL activities with my congregation, especially right now with the start of the Memorial Invitation Campaign.

 

It does appears that you've been actively following this thread for the past two days? As a suggestion, you - and any one else - may find it useful and helpful to 'unfollow' this thread, and therefore not receive any updates or notifications etc related to this thread.

 

You can use the 'following' tool (at the top of the thread page) to stop following this thread:

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Parale

[Parale]

53 minutes ago, Skye said:

Official spokesperson: All in-person activity in Hamburg stopped this weekend (all 47 congregations). The seriously injured are stable - they're not out of the woods yet - but we continue to pray that they survive. 

 

https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hamburg_journal/Amoktat-in-Hamburg-Gottesdienste-der-Zeugen-Jehovas-digital,hamj132752.html

 

Related NDR article, with selected portions translated from original

 

After rampage in Hamburg: Jehovah's Witnesses still in shock

 

Norddeutscher Rundfunk NDR (Hamburg, Germany) - 12 March 2023

 

The spokesperson for Jehovah's Witnesses, Michael Tsifidaris, told the NDR Hamburg Journal: "As of Sunday afternoon, the attending doctors tell us that the seriously injured are in stable condition". They are in intensive care: "And we all know that they are not out of the woods yet. We pray very much and hope very much that these seriously injured people will survive. But we can't confirm that definitively today." At last count, four of them were critically injured. The motive for the crime remains unclear.

Jehovah's Witnesses only do services digitally

 

The 47 congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Hamburg do their services digitally on the advice of the security authorities. They are of central importance right now, Tsifidaris said: "This is so important in these hours, that you can cry together, pray together, physically embrace each other." The response from home and abroad has been "overwhelming", he said. "We get many messages, offers of help, letters. It's good to see that." For the affected community in Alsterdorf it is a dramatic situation: "There is a rift through this community, probably everyone in their family has at least one injured or seriously injured person or even a dead person to mourn. I have lost dear friends myself. It's surreal and unreal." On Monday, there is to be a round table with representatives to organise psychological support for those affected quickly and well.

Fehrs: "We are deeply shocked by the events".

 

Hamburg's Protestant Bishop Kirsten Fehrs interceded for the victims of the rampage during a service in Lübeck Cathedral on Sunday morning. "Deeply shocked, we stand before the events of last Thursday in Hamburg. Grief and pain, lamentation and horror - all this moves us deeply," the bishop said in her intercession, which was published in advance, according to a statement from the Northern Church. "Our thoughts are full of sympathy for all those who lost their loved ones on the night of the crime," Fehrs said.

 

Foundations warn against speculation on the rampage

 

Meanwhile, two foundations have expressed their solidarity with the attacked Jehovah's Witnesses and at the same time warned against speculating about a connection between the religious community and the motives of the perpetrator. The victims of a crime could not and should not be misused to explain the actions of a criminal, the Foundation Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe and the Arnold Liebster Foundation jointly announced on Saturday. "It is imperative to wait for the investigations and to preserve the dignity of the victims of this crime," the foundations said.

 

Ministry: No record of drug offences

 

According to initial findings, nothing was known about a previous drug offence committed by the offender. A spokesperson of the Bavarian Ministry of the Interior said on Saturday that there was no record of drug-related offences. Previously, there had been reports about possible drug abuse by Philipp F. in the past. He comes from Memmingen in Bavaria and had been registered in Hamburg since 2015.

 

https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Nach-Amoklauf-in-Hamburg-Zeugen-Jehovas-weiter-unter-Schock,amoklauf152.html

Edited March 12, 2023 by Parale

[Percy]

19 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

We have cameras outside but I think the brothers are getting a couple more. I had to come in late to midweek meeting this week. It was the night before the shooting. As I was walking in the parking lot by myself before the meeting in the dark, my thought went to being grateful that the brothers could see me making my way in just in case I got attacked in the parking lot. 
I think some lights are going to be updated or upgraded too which will help where we have to park. 
Lights and cameras are excellent deterrents to crime. 

I was a little late to the meeting this morning as I had to park a couple blocks away. When I got to the KH the doors were locked. I pushed the button to the right of the door and immediately a brother came to let me in. Good security but our hall is but 12 years years old. This is quiet Victoria BC but we are living in the 'new normal'.

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Skye said:

Official spokesperson: All in-person activity in Hamburg stopped this weekend (all 47 congregations). The seriously injured are stable - they're not out of the woods yet - but we continue to pray that they survive. 

 

https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hamburg_journal/Amoktat-in-Hamburg-Gottesdienste-der-Zeugen-Jehovas-digital,hamj132752.html

 

Thank you so much ☺️🙏🙏😘 this information filled my heart. May all recover well even the sister with spine injury

[vern]

I don.t even want to post in other threads... Thinking it would seem insensative.

[Hotteok]

4 hours ago, Skye said:

Official spokesperson: All in-person activity in Hamburg stopped this weekend (all 47 congregations). The seriously injured are stable - they're not out of the woods yet - but we continue to pray that they survive. 

 

https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hamburg_journal/Amoktat-in-Hamburg-Gottesdienste-der-Zeugen-Jehovas-digital,hamj132752.html

 

 

I can translate his voice using

dictation.io/speech

[Hotteok]

35 minutes ago, Hotteok said:

 

I can translate his voice using

dictation.io/speech

 

Not so sure if this is accurate.. 

 

Of course we think most people chen rampage from Alsterdorf the deadly assassination attempt at a meeting of Jehovah's Witnesses in the sun Hofers have gathered again today despite everything or precisely because of this, but above all online has met their spokesman in Stellingen who could because today on Sunday at all Meetings take place that is so important in these hours only that you can cry together praying together you can also hug each other physically but we have now decided on the recommendation of the security authorities in Hamburg to carry out all services completely digitally for this weekend but we also want to give support and stability at the same time, that's why all seven lead The overall response that reaches us from all over the country, we have received many messages, letters, offers of help, it's all good to see how are people doing, because the people imagine it is a dramatic situation can my husband is through this community at probably everyone in his family has at least one injured or badly injured arm to complain about lost dear friends myself it is unreal real is very very grateful in the city of Hamburg to which the security authorities obviously do not have it were able to prevent spilling in good time thank you very much but also to Aldi who are now also helping. So today on Sunday afternoon the doctors who treated us tell us that you should be in a stable condition, regardless of how is the intensive care unit and we all know that they are not over we are on the mountain we are praying for it and we really hope that the injured will survive, but we cannot finally confirm that tonight with what is to come in the coming days and weeks, we have also tried all the information in the processing and in cooperation with the police to which somehow can still be collected together handed over to the police so that they can do their work that will definitely continue but you can see that at the back. We read that just as you did either in the newspaper or found out about the pairings of the police Unheimlich Am survivors that night we stuck together for hours, even with the police, we didn't stand by. We're trying to organize psychological support for those affected.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Hotteok

[More4me2do]

4 hours ago, Parale said:

It does appears that you've been actively following this thread for the past two days? As a suggestion, you - and any one else - may find it useful and helpful to 'unfollow' this thread, and therefore not receive any updates or notifications etc related to this thread.

 

You can use the 'following' tool (at the top of the thread page) to stop following this thread:

 

You incorrectly assumed that the amount of notifications were a nuisance to me, wrong. Here is my concern from Phil 4:8

 

Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things.

 

The shooting is true and of serious concern but it is done with, it is over and nothing more we can do about it at this time. However what of this tragedy is righteous, chaste, lovable, well spoken of, virtuous and praiseworthy absolutely nothing and now the later part of the verse comes into play, should we continue considering these things. For me NO, it has now reached the point where it enters the realm of all kinds of speculations like the motive or indulging into details.

 

In the beginning there were some excellent comments here citing articles from JW.ORG on how to explain the shooting to our students and interested persons, but now let the healing and grieving set in without reliving the events with a minute by minute event countdown.