Immigration enforcement and JW's

[Doug]

The Immigration and Nationality Act dates back to 1952.  It was a tool for keeping track of people who were going to be in the country for more than 30 days.  Registration is mandatory for anyone 14 years of age or older without legal status.  Registrants are required to provide fingerprints and an address.  If they move they need to notify the government.  This even applies to Canadian "snowbirds" who vacation in Florida for the winter.  This law has rarely been enforced, but a judge Trevor Neil McFadden has ruled in favor of the administration enforcing the law.  

 

 It sounds a lot like the law requiring all male US citizens to register with the Selective Service within 30 days of their 18th birthday.  Our organization makes an announcement reminding our young brothers to be sure and do that.

 

The deadline to register is Friday, April 11, 2025.  Has the US branch given any direction on this?  Will our brothers and sisters who don't have legal status comply?  Mt. 22:21

[Shawnster]

Could you please provide a link? 

[Doug]

I wish I knew how.  I "copied a link" at the news article.  Don't know where that went     .

 

I think this law is a big deal.  I can't imagine JW's ignoring it.

 

Google Trevor Neil McFadden  and find the story at ABC news and FOX news.

[Tortuga]

This was included in the congregation announcements for February 2025. It is the only information I have found.

 

Selective Service (For United States, Puerto Rico, and U.S. Virgin Islands): The Selective Service System registration requirement applies to 1) all male U.S. citizens and 2) immigrant men residing in the United States, who are 18 through 25 years of age. A male U.S. citizen must register within 30 days of his 18th birthday and an immigrant man must register within 30 days of arriving in the United States. From the time a man registers until he turns 26, he must notify Selective Service within ten (10) days of any change of address. 

Edited Friday at 02:55 PM by Tortuga

[trottigy]

https://apnews.com/article/illegal-immigration-immigrant-registry-trump-homeland-security-329d9b1523792aaf5940f72948d8b48b

 

 

[Doug]

As we know, the requirement that US citizens who are male are supposed to "register for the draft" within 30 days of their 18th birthday is something our organization supports and even reminds us as Richard shared.

 

The law this topic is referring to has been "on the books" since 1952, although rarely enforced.  So, the question I'm curious to know the answer to is: Will the US branch make an announcement that this is Caesar's law and those who are the subject of this law need to comply, as they do with the Selective Service law?

 

The article Jerry posted sums it up:  The registration of people who work, contribute to the economy and have deep family ties in America are in a deep bind. Do they come forward, register and essentially give up their location to a government intent on carrying out mass deportations, or do they stay in the shadows and risk being charged with the crime of not registering?

 

This could be a major shake-up for our brothers in various non-English language congregations.  We know a man or a woman without legal status can be baptized, but not considered exemplary as far as pioneering or an appointed role.  So, there's already a stigma attached to a non-legal status for a Christian. This law seems to add another level to the question of compliance.  Will the friends swat this away as meaningless?  Will the branch speak to this?

[Shawnster]

18 minutes ago, Doug said:

Will the branch speak to this?

And say what? 

 

What scriptural principles apply? I know we already mentioned obeying Caesar. What other principles come to mind? 

Edited Friday at 10:48 PM by Shawnster

[Tortuga]

34 minutes ago, Doug said:

Will the US branch make an announcement that this is Caesar's law and those who are the subject of this law need to comply, as they do with the Selective Service law?

I can't speak for the GB but I haven't seen anything yet. 

[Doug]

13 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

And say what? 

 

What scriptural principles apply? I know we already mentioned obeying Caesar. What other principles come to mind? 

 

Good questions.  From w96 5/1  pp. 5-8 " Since Jesus did not define exactly what is Caesar's and what is God's, there are borderline cases that must be decided according to the context or according to our understanding of the entire Bible. In other words, deciding what things a Christian can pay Caesar would sometimes involve the Christian's  conscience, as enlightened by Bible principles".

 

Which is why I ask if the Branch will address this.  Is it a matter of conscience?  Here's an unlikely example:  A Christian would not abandon his family, not even if Caesar orders him to self-deport. The Christian could leave and take his family with him, or in good conscience decide his family's welfare is among "God's things" and leaving would be harmful to his family in many ways, and therefore decide he will not comply with the law that says he must register and stay in the shadows.

 

Without guidance , the Christian may decide for himself what "belongs to Caesar" and decide that a requirement that he has to come forward and register endangers his family and not do it.

Can this law be compared to the authorities demanding the names of other JW's. Something we will not give.

 

Compliance with this law will be a very difficult situation for many brothers and sisters.    💔

 

 

[LeolaRootStew]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

And say what? 

 

What scriptural principles apply? I know we already mentioned obeying Caesar. What other principles come to mind? 

 

What other principles do you need? 

 

2 hours ago, Doug said:

Which is why I ask if the Branch will address this.  Is it a matter of conscience?  Here's an unlikely example:  A Christian would not abandon his family, not even if Caesar orders him to self-deport. The Christian could leave and take his family with him, or in good conscience decide his family's welfare is among "God's things" and leaving would be harmful to his family in many ways, and therefore decide he will not comply with the law that says he must register and stay in the shadows.

 

Okay. I understand having compassion for people in a tough bind, but we don't decide whether or not to follow the law based on the consequences alone. We follow Caesar's laws unless they try to prevent us from following God's laws. Possibly being separated from your family does not fall under "paying God's things to God" because God never commanded any Witness to enter or stay in the US illegally.

 

Can you imagine a Witness claiming that they don't have to report the death of the person they just killed with their car because if they were arrested God would view that as family abandonment??? That's utterly absurd! We could justify not reporting any infraction with that false reasoning.

 

Being separated from your family is a natural consequence for anyone being arrested - it is not an excuse for Christians to break the law a second time to avoid that separation. This is not religious persecution. As you mentioned, if the government orders you to be deported for the crime of being in the country illegally, you can take your family with you - there is no loophole for those who don't like the consequences for breaking the law.

 

I do agree that if the Branch doesn't address this, Witnesses may conclude that this is a conscience matter. I hope they address it unequivocally. 

 

 

[Doug]

2 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I do agree that if the Branch doesn't address this, Witnesses may conclude that this is a conscience matter. I hope they address it unequivocally. 

 

 

Amen.  I didn't know about this law until today's news article.  The brothers at HQ most likely did, and do know about it, but the government wasn't enforcing it, so . . . . .

 

If some can be here illegally with a clear conscience, is it a stretch to think they could view this law as a conscience matter as well?

 

And yet, the WT says there are some decisions that are borderline when it comes to "paying Caesar's things to Caesar". I'm imagining the phone calls and emails pouring in to the Service Dept since this judges ruling.

 

As it is, those here illegally cannot receive special privileges.  So, even if they don't want to "come forward" and register, will it make any difference within the congregation? Maybe that's the answer. Since they're already limited in what they qualify for (baptism only), nothing changes?

[boodles]

I don't see why the congregation would address this matter, they don't give us a reminder of all the laws we need to follow. They don't remind us that the tax deadline is coming up or to pay our car registration yearly. (I see expired license plates in the hall parking lot sometimes...) There must be a reason that they announce the selective service law specifically. I don't know what that reason is, though.

 

By the way, just in case anyone needs to know and doesn't, as we didn't realize back when it applied to "us", all males in the US 18 or older need to register for selective service, including US citizens, and all immigrants, including legal or illegal. We didn't realize they would want illegal immigrant males under 26 to register - had no idea, and it was a problem later when he was legal and applying for financial aid at school. And it came up when he applied for citizenship.

 

Another thing I'll add since no one seems to know, is that people in the US without an SSN can/should get an ITIN to pay their Federal Income Tax. 

 

There's so many laws we can't possibly keep up with all of them. Who knew that in order to have a dog you need to have a dog license, in the city where we live. I thought you just buy a dog or someone gives it to you, and you get it vaccinated and fixed. Didn't know you need a license from the city. I would have unknowingly broken that law if I had a dog. 

 

But we should do our best to be aware of and follow laws, of course. But say the government required a Real ID for everyone in the country in a month. Would that even be feasible? The people who need to give their fingerprints and report their address, hopefully the government let them know in a timely fashion and that the people have a way to actually do it. They probably know they need to fulfill all requirements in order to remain eligible to be able to stay in the US.

 

I'm just rambling here, don't take my words for concrete legal advice, do your own research

Edited Saturday at 06:11 AM by boodles

[BLEmom]

There are so many countries in the world with various conflicts and immigrants and refugee issues. I haven’t heard of a branch dictating what is best in situations like that. For instance, Russia and Ukraine…the branch as far as I know, didn’t tell the friends to stay or leave, they left things up to them. 
Same thing with different African countries. 
It really isn’t our business what the legal status of anyone else is. The only ones who need to know are the elders assigning privileges. 
I’ve said on other threads and I will repeat here….we don’t know circumstances of others….why they are here, how they got here, what they have or haven’t tried legally…

I don’t think it’s loving for them to have pressure from others among Jehovah’s people about what they have or “should” do.  If something is needed, we can rest assured it will be handled in a loving way by the GB. 
In the meantime, we can all continue to apply 1 Thess 4:11

 

[Tortuga]

There is a scriptural account that shows it is not the responsibility of congregation elders to research and enforce secular laws involving undocumented aliens.—Philem. 8-22; w77 pp. 191-192.

[dljbsp]

The purpose of the JW Legal Department is to provide legal support and protection for the worldwide preaching and organizational activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Its main functions include:

• Defending religious freedom: Representing Jehovah’s Witnesses in legal cases that affect their right to worship, preach, and meet together.

• Supporting congregations and branches: Giving legal advice to elders and branch offices on issues like property ownership, child protection policies, and compliance with local laws.

• Handling legal threats or disputes: Assisting with cases involving zoning laws, school rights, medical decisions (like blood transfusions), and conscientious objection to military service.

• Ensuring adherence to Bible-based principles: Helping to make sure legal actions align with scriptural values and theocratic direction.
  
  Elders have been instructed to not give legal advise. Unless they are lawyers and the person is their client.
  
  Reminding the young brothers to register for selective service is not legal advice it is supported by Bible principle. 

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

There is a scriptural account that shows it is not the responsibility of congregation elders to research and enforce secular laws involving undocumented aliens.—Philem. 8-22; w77 pp. 191-192.

 

Yes, but we still encourage them to follow the law.

 

Quote

● A man I know is progressing toward Christian baptism, but his visa to be in this country has expired. What should I advise him?

You certainly should commend him for desiring to know and follow God’s counsel. The Scriptures urge Christians to be law-abiding, to pay to Caesar what is Caesar’s. (Matt. 22:21) Hence, it would be good for you to urge this man to do what he can to rectify his status, which may at present be considered that of an illegal alien.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1977211&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=2

 

[Shawnster]

14 hours ago, Doug said:

And yet, the WT says there are some decisions that are borderline when it comes to "paying Caesar's things to Caesar"

Do you have that WT reference? 

[dljbsp]

11 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Do you have that WT reference? 

I found it, it is an old one>

It is when the matter comes within what might be called a ‘gray area,’ approaching the borderline between what is clearly right and what is clearly wrong, that questions arise. The closer to such ‘borderline situation’ the matter comes, the greater the part the individual’s conscience must play in his decision. ...  Jehovah God expects us to use our faculties of intelligence, our knowledge, understanding and judgment, and to do conscientiously what our faith points us to do. ... We must also take the consequences of our own decisions, not expect someone else to make the decision and bear that responsibility for us. ... It would therefore be wrong in such matters to try to extract from someone else, from a body of elders or from the governing body of the Christian congregation, some rule or regulation that ‘draws the line’ on matters.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1972724&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=12

I was gonna tell you my perspective on if I felt this reference applies or not to this conversation, but I can't because I'm not supposed to 'draw a line' on the matter according to that same reference.

[Doug]

56 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Do you have that WT reference? 

 

w96  5/1 pp. 5-8

 

21 hours ago, Doug said:

 

 w96 5/1  pp. 5-8 " Since Jesus did not define exactly what is Caesar's and what is God's, there are borderline cases that must be decided according to the context or according to our understanding of the entire Bible. In other words, deciding what things a Christian can pay Caesar would sometimes involve the Christian's  conscience, as enlightened by Bible principles".

 

 

[Doug]

3 hours ago, Tortuga said:

There is a scriptural account that shows it is not the responsibility of congregation elders to research and enforce secular laws involving undocumented aliens.—Philem. 8-22; w77 pp. 191-192.

 

Okay .  .   .  elders don't enforce secular laws.  But elders do enforce direction received from the GB.  And that direction raises the question of brothers and sisters without legal status having special privileges.  So,  elders do consider the immigration status of the baptized person when considering an appointment or an application to pioneer, Bethel etc.

 

I'm open to correction   

 

If I'm not mistaken, the application for Bethel  required the applicant to affirm their legal status.

[Shawnster]

47 minutes ago, dljbsp said:

I found it, it is an old one>



https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1972724&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=12
 

 

30 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

w96  5/1 pp. 5-8

 

 

Thanks 

[Tortuga]

26 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

Okay .  .   .  elders don't enforce secular laws.  But elders do enforce direction received from the GB.  And that direction raises the question of brothers and sisters without legal status having special privileges.  So,  elders do consider the immigration status of the baptized person when considering an appointment or an application to pioneer, Bethel etc.

 

I'm open to correction   

 

If I'm not mistaken, the application for Bethel  required the applicant to affirm their legal status.

So, what was your original question again?

[Doug]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

So, what was your original question again?

 

On 4/11/2025 at 7:53 AM, Tortuga said:

This was included in the congregation announcements for February 2025. It is the only information I have found.

 

Selective Service (For United States, Puerto Rico, and U.S. Virgin Islands): The Selective Service System registration requirement applies to 1) all male U.S. citizens and 2) immigrant men residing in the United States, who are 18 through 25 years of age. A male U.S. citizen must register within 30 days of his 18th birthday and an immigrant man must register within 30 days of arriving in the United States. From the time a man registers until he turns 26, he must notify Selective Service within ten (10) days of any change of address. 

 

Originally, I was wondering if the Branch will provide direction on this registration law, because they remind the young brothers about the Selective Service requirement and the reminder doesn't sound like a "suggestion".    

 

17 hours ago, boodles said:

 

By the way, just in case anyone needs to know and doesn't, as we didn't realize back when it applied to "us", all males in the US 18 or older need to register for selective service, including US citizens, and all immigrants, including legal or illegal. We didn't realize they would want illegal immigrant males under 26 to register - had no idea, and it was a problem later when he was legal and applying for financial aid at school. And it came up when he applied for citizenship.

 

 

This law has the potential to shake-up congregations.  It's Caesar's law, but how will the friends respond?  Will the GB weigh-in?  (Silence from the GB may be interpreted as they feel this isn't as important as the selective service annual announcement).

 

Since I started this topic, the courts have gone further and ruled that "sensitive areas", churches etc, are not off limits to ICE enforcement.   

[Tortuga]

2 minutes ago, Doug said:

It's Caesar's law, but how will the friends respond?  Will the GB weigh-in?  (Silence from the GB may be interpreted as they feel this isn't as important as the selective service annual announcement).

 

We also don't know whether or not the GB will issue specific direction or issue a friendly reminder or do nothing, so we don't have an answer to that question. 

Finally, I think it is unfair to assume that the friends will interpret silence from the GB to mean that it isn't important to follow that particular law.

We love and trust our brothers and sisters.

[BLEmom]

Do you always obey the speed limits exactly or do you sometimes have to go with the flow of traffic that drives a lot faster?

Just one example of how circumstances dictate actions….