2025 GB Update #5 - Putting to rest issues on “Higher” Education

[Knight]

3 hours ago, Jwanon said:

 

Show me the publication that said that a brother cannot be examplary if they had a beard or if they were attending college please

 

My brother, I am answering to your question. 

The Watchtower that I have just mentioned says (I quote it again):

"In other cultures or localities, beards are not the custom and are not considered acceptable for Christian ministers. In fact, having one may hinder a brother from bringing glory to God by his dress and grooming and his being irreprehensible." w16 September p. 21 par. 17

 

This is what you were asking for. Perhaps it was not the case of the place where you live, but this article clearly states that in other countries these brothers with beard were not irreprehensible, their grooming was not considered acceptable for Christian ministers.

So, not exemplary.

I hope that this helps you to get the point and answer your question.

[Abigail]

19 hours ago, Jwanon said:

 

I feel like it's the opposite

 

Everything that has been discussed lately has always been personnal decisions

 

But reading the comments here, some among our brothers have imposed additional rules in the congregations

 

So the GB has to clarify our stance by telling all of us explicitly that we must not judge our fellow believers for things that are not proscribed in the Bible, and giving specific examples (beards, secular education, toasting, etc)

 

So we can't be trusted to follow Bible principles on our own unless we get explicit "permission" from the Organization. And that is normal, because we are imperfect so Jehovah gives us clear direction until we mature, just like he did for the Israelites. Because at the present, we have not matured enough and probably won't be until the start of the Great Tribulation 

Jehovah trusts us more and more ... he dignifies our free will.

[Jwanon]

11 minutes ago, Knight said:

their grooming was not considered acceptable for Christian ministers.

 

By whom?

[Robinson]

Yes. My father was an elder. Both of my parents let the choice by my own with no pushing on their end either way. I'm glad they did. I'm the only person in my family who has a 4 year degree and I've been faithful to Jehovah serving as a baptized witness for 34 years. I regular auxiliared for the most of 10 years while going to school part time (paid by my job). When I finished my studies, I started working part-time and shortly afterwards began pioneering. I regulared pioneered for 10 years.  If Jehovah is in the forefront, it can be done, although difficult. I think it actually helped me learn more things so that I had different job options which is what I needed in order to pioneer without taking money from my family or the friends. Im glad there will be no judgment going forward.

[Abigail]

16 hours ago, Jimi-L said:

Do you know what touched me the most in this update? Not this somewhat polished view of education, because I expected something like that at some point but rather that it wasn’t really a new light, well at least when  this forum is concerned. Brother Splane shared some understandable concerns regarding education, — and we have discussed them here, — also including  other factors, such as our personal motives, the important choice of prioritizing  spiritual matters, and the dangers of worldly philosophy and association - all the things that have often come up here through the experiences of many brothers and sisters. Mostly our publications have dealt with this comprehensively very little,  mainly negative regarding especially ’higher education’.  

Again this is following the current trend (obviously from Jehovah), principles not rules, so long as there are no scriptural rules. It is teaching us to think and reason for ourselves ... total opposite of what the world is doing - AI being just one example.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Jwanon said:

I'm asking for evidence that the organization ever suggested that brothers with beards or who go to college cannot be examplary, brcause I have known several cases where this did not happen

 

 

Did any of those brothers with beards and went to college come from the US Branch territory? 

 

You'll notice these brothers, such as @Buckeye, are from the US Branch territory and not from France. 

 

It's clear from the comments here the direction was not applied the same throughout all of the Branch territories. 

[dannysharedstuff]

One thing I've find really interesting on this update was the warning about the dangerous of a brother/sister who goes out to get higher education far from home having to share a house with non witnesses (even if they are family members).

 

I've thought about this and this is also a great advice for adults to go to another country looking for better "financial conditions" and are living with a lot of non-witnesses in the same house... the danger is real!

[Robinson]

18 hours ago, Buckeye said:

It was hard to be different in school and realizing it was all just my elders making up rules is very very hard to hear for me. And the way people dismiss it is frustrating. 

I don't think anyone is dismissing you. We just understand. Some of us have been in that boat. Sometimes we have to forgive people for their misunderstanding or misinterpretation. Trust me...I know. I've been where you've been. I still feel a way about online dating. I haven't been able to marry because it's scarce and I feel like online dating would be a better option for me. But, it's frowned upon. So, I don't. Now if something changes down the line, I can't be upset because I decided to stay the course. I made that decision to wait, and I won't regret it. Why? Jehovah sees my faithfulness. Imperfect people will say imperfect things while they are really sincere. This is why Jehovah is cleaning and clearing things up. You can't change the past. Focus on what you can do NOW and in the future that will benefit you and your relationship with Jehovah...with no judgement from others.

[Robinson]

19 hours ago, Israel said:

I have a different background to the average Witness. I do not have any family support, would be completely alone in life if it weren't for the Brothers, have lived in extreme poverty and rent a small apartment and am autistic and thus struggle to live with other people. And I want to have a family --- meet a wife in the truth and have children. This means that I have to get a college education, because im my country it is almost impossible to earn more than minimum wage without a college degree. Additionally, I am working and studying, so I devote almost 0 time to social life and college, and do not live at campus. Therefore, I face very little spiritual danger at college.

As a single sister, this was/is my situation. I dont have anyone caring for me. So, I need to make enough to pay rent and other necessities. Unfortunately, making minimum wage will not be able to carry me through, even paying rent. I have to make more than that. So, college was my solution, and I don't regret it. I am caring for myself with Jehovah's help.

[Robinson]

19 hours ago, OW90 said:

All that sacrifice and struggle just to hear its okay now... I don't know what to say. 

Thank you for your sacrifice. Jehovah will not forget it.

[BLEmom]

13 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

 

Did any of those brothers with beards and went to college come from the US Branch territory? 

 

You'll notice these brothers, such as @Buckeye, are from the US Branch territory and not from France. 

 

It's clear from the comments here the direction was not applied the same throughout all of the Branch territories. 

And honestly what I got from the update was that the clarification was more a global view. I think previous direction may have been a more US idea of what higher education is. 

By changing the terminology to additional education, it takes into account the fact we come from over 240 lands with various educational setups in those lands. Educational systems are changing fast as is everything else in this system. Even the fact that education is online can change the idea behind the past traditional view. 

Has the idea that living on campus, the dangers of association or the dangers of worldly viewpoints changed?  No. 
What has changed is acknowledgment of the changing ways education is given and that some may choose to use it. It’s acknowledging europes educational culture with no debt and living at home while going to university.  In the past here in the US, that wasn’t really as likely. It’s acknowledging that some people can now “go to university “ via an online course. 
 

The point is still to maintain spirituality in first place. And the fact they are constantly encouraging young ones to reach out for bethel and ldc service tells me they still hope for the young ones to choose spiritual goals over secular ones. 

How much this changes being exemplary from place to place will depend much on how the individual goes about executing their decision for additional education.

While acknowledging that some elder bodies have a more strict view than others….Remember when some say they couldn’t get appointed because they went to university, we don’t have the full picture. There may be a lot of other factors involved in the elders decision. 
 

So just as we don’t wish to be negatively judged for our decisions, we shouldn’t judge the decisions of the elders negatively especially since we don’t know the full circumstances. 

[Michał]

38 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

By whom?

In Poland, 30, 20 and even 10 years ago wearing beards was looked down by general population (not JWs). So, in our area it wasn’t exemplary for sure. The WT said about Quite a lot changed in the last decade in our society, so the beard update wasn’t as much of a shock, pandemic „helped” too. 
 

Regarding additional education, I can see from the comments that warnings concerning higher education were much more strictly „enforced” in the US than in Poland. I think I can understand that because generally speaking, studying is different in US vs Europe:

Money: very expensive vs cheap or free

Distance: far away requiring living in campus vs close to home

Social activities: full immersion vs superficial engagement 

Time requirement: high vs low (some students study less than in high school)

 

This update really highlights dangers of pursuing additional education but leaves us with our own responsibility how to navigate them with the ultimate goal of serving Jehovah. 

[Robinson]

18 hours ago, OW90 said:

And yes, my situation is far from the worst, and i'm thankful to have stable employment. But my line of work cost me a lot in the way of my physical and mental health. There is no recompense for that. I just have to live with that for the forseeable future. 

 

I mind as well save my breath. I'm just gonna be told how i'm wrong...😞

You're not wrong for having these feelings. Have them! Give them to Jehovah. And now re-focus. What can you do NOW with this new information. You know there are other congregations that I know that look down on ANY type of education, even a certificate. And you can hear it in how they talk, they sound like they haven't even finished elementary school. If an education is what you want, then go back to college. And if you can't do that, there are plenty of online short courses for cheap. Have you looked at "Coursera" "Edx" "Ed2go"? Some people take micro-classes and can either get their jobs to pay for it or they present it to their bosses for a raise/promotion or to get more flexibility in the job. That's what I've done. 

 

What I'm saying is the past happened. What can you do NOW with this new light?

[Buckeye]

55 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

 

Did any of those brothers with beards and went to college come from the US Branch territory? 

 

You'll notice these brothers, such as @Buckeye, are from the US Branch territory and not from France. 

 

It's clear from the comments here the direction was not applied the same throughout all of the Branch territories. 

Thanks for the comment and validation. It’s probably best for me to stop looking at this site because brothers and sisters are making me feel like I’m crazy and it was just me who thought college was discouraged and that beards were acceptable too.  There has never been an image in the watchtower of an exemplary brother with a beard before the update about beards. Not one picture. Maybe they were studying and had a beard but then when they came in the truth, they had shaved. The GB never had beards on the platform until after the update.  Yet there has apparently never been a problem with beards.  I would call that changing an unwritten rule.  
 

Being told something was always a way when it wasn’t is totally weird and demoralizing to me. They made a video about it. And if it was never a problem and became such an issue in congregations that they had to make this video, then i hope the brothers that imposed these rules are counseled for imposing additional rules on so many of us. Because these are very big life altering decisions I’ve made and I don’t understand how things are so different all over.  If a European brother comes to the states to give a talk, did he have to shave before he gave the talk?  
I always wanted a beard, do you think I used to shave because I made up some odd rule about it for myself?

Edited 21 hours ago by Buckeye

[Dark King]

I also wanted to bring out sometimes governments basic education is very inferior and people will have to go to a institution of additional education to increase their basic education that the government didn't give him.

[Ross92]

4 hours ago, Jwanon said:

 

I did not disputing that brothers have different experiences

 

I am disputing that the organization has given "clear rules and strong unwritten suggestions" that brothers who have higher education are not examplary Christians. I am asking for evidence of this accusation 

have a look over the Shepherd book if you happen to have one. Perhaps also look at some of the previous broadcasts where our GB brothers have explicitly and outrightly warned against higher education. 

[Shawnster]

Anyone hear from @Ishaya since this update? 

[Jwanon]

1 hour ago, Ross92 said:

have a look over the Shepherd book if you happen to have one. Perhaps also look at some of the previous broadcasts where our GB brothers have explicitly and outrightly warned against higher education. 

 

Do you understand the difference between a warning and a proscription?

 

We also have warnings against the dangers of the internet, so did the organization say surfing the internet means you are not a good Christian?

 

The shepherd's book doesn't say you will be deleted as an elder if a member of the family goes to college. It says that the body will examine if the motives for going to college will interfere with their relationship with Jehovah 

 

The misapplication you seem to be suggesting is exactly the issue I am highlighting

Edited 19 hours ago by Jwanon

[Dages]

Some people sounds like they will moan about all the birthday presents they missed if one day this thing is changed.

I hope it won't.

 

Enjoy how Jehovah have been taking good care of you and the career of your teenage dream will still be available in Paradise anyway.

[trottigy]

4 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Do you understand the difference between a warning and a proscription?

 

We also have warnings against the dangers of the internet, so did the organization say surfing the internet means you are not a good Christian?

 

The shepherd's book doesn't say you will be deleted as an elder if a member of the family goes to college. It says that the body will examine if the motives for going to college will interfere with their relationship with Jehovah 

 

The misapplication you seem to be suggesting is exactly the issue I am highlighting

 

I understand what you're saying, but we don't review a brother's qualifications if he browses the internet. We do review his qualifications if he or a member of his immediate family is going to a university. So, the GB obviously wants us to consider this seriously and not just make a decision based on money or emotions.

 

It is true that reviewing someone's qualifications is not the same thing as removing him. But, the fact that you have to review them shows the seriousness of this issue. Look at the other reasons why you would review an elder's qualifications.

 

It's not a jump for elders to go slightly above and beyond this. It's not what they're supposed to do, but you have to at least see that there would be a possibility for that, eh? 

 

I personally have gone through this twice. I wasn't removed due to my motivations and that it has not affected my spiritual activity. But it's still important to follow the directions.

[trottigy]

3 minutes ago, Dages said:

Some people sounds like they will moan about all the birthday presents they missed if one day this thing is changed.

I hope it won't.

 

Enjoy how Jehovah have been taking good care of you and the career of your teenage dream will still be available in Paradise anyway.

 

This reminds me of a Bible verse at Phil 3:8

 

What is more, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in union with him,

 

 

Do we consider the things of this world as a lot of refuse OR do we look longingly at them (like Eve must have done to the fruit) all while waiting for our opportunity to grab them? Eventually, the answer to that question will become obvious - just like it did for her! 

 

1 John 2:15-17

[Romain]

3 hours ago, Michał said:

Regarding additional education, I can see from the comments that warnings concerning higher education were much more strictly „enforced” in the US than in Poland. I think I can understand that because generally speaking, studying is different in US vs Europe:

Money: very expensive vs cheap or free

Distance: far away requiring living in campus vs close to home

Social activities: full immersion vs superficial engagement 

Time requirement: high vs low (some students study less than in high school)

 

Yeah same in France. When I did my English degree (so 3 years of higher studies) it was like a continuation of high school but actually with even fewer exposition to the world's spirit. I'll explain myself. I live near a city with a lot of universities. I was still living with my parents, I would take the bus and come and go. Also it's cheap (so cheap they even pay you to go lol)

Of course I had contact with non-JWs but less than in highschool because in the faculty I could just go about my day without talking to anyone if I wanted to.

In France higher studies are even often a good opportunity to do auxiliary pioneering while doing so. I know a lot of younger ones who did that and then became regular pioneers thanks to that (because they found a job that allowed it easily).

So yeah here it's even encouraged to attend higher studies (of course if you have good motives in mind).

So in my area this update changes nothing at all.

But I am sure it does for other cultures of course. We just need to remain balanced.

Edited 18 hours ago by Romain

[Violin]

4 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Let me help you. I was baptized in southern California over 50 years ago, I currently live in northern California, I do not think California is a 'more liberal' area. I have heard for many years that a large portion of Bethelites come from California and WHQ had once considered opening a Branch office in California. We recently hosted a Special Convention.  Please mention that to anyone that assumes California isn't as spiritually minded as the rest of Jehovah's organization. 

Again, my apologies.  I didn't mean to cause offence.  I was referring more to regional differences, like sisters here saying that in the UK they can have unnatural coloured hair.

[Cushi]

5 hours ago, Violin said:

Were you allowed to wear them?  We weren't, my husband won't let our kids use them either.  And I'm not a fan of permanent tattoos either, just saying that apparently a few witnesses do have them.

I never asked my Mom if I could because I knew she wouldn't approve of that. I vaguely remember sneaking and getting a decal tattoo from a kid from school and applying it in the school bathroom. 

Even as I child, I knew it was a way for children to nurture a love for tattoos and get them later in life. Yes, there's some in

my congregation that have them. One elder even has a big cross on top of his right hand that he received when he was in the world. I don't judge them for it though, because I've made decisions and had feelings about things in the past, and while serving Jehovah,  that I no longer do or believe. 

[TheKid23]

14 hours ago, Dages said:

Tattoos still have bad reputation.
All the brothers and sisters with tattoos are from the world, they aren't second generation JWs

That’s not necessarily true. I was brought up in the truth but have several tattoos. My mental health was a big factor that lead to me getting them, and I’ve never been counselled by the elders for them. 
 

I also know others who’ve had tattoos whilst in the truth.