September 2015 broadcast

[jayrtom]

I was rather disappointed in the explanation of 'this generation' by David Splane in the September Broadcasting. He really explained nothing but simply added to the confusion over the interpretation of this most problematic phrase. Further, the current explanations seem at odds with what is now published on this subject in the updated online Insight to the Scriptures.

A much more prudent interpretation of matters is simply to return to what was published in the Watchtower in 1927? that 'this generation' represented the Church or the Anointed as a whole which is well supported if one consults the meaning of the Hebrew/Aramaic form of which Jesus spoke in his Olivet discourse.

scholar JW

I can't understand why you talk about confusion... To me it's pretty straightforward...

I compare it to children in school.

One kid, Peter, enters school and goes from the first grade to the 4th (using Portuguese example that has a primary school of 4 years)

When Peter is on his last year, Tony enters the 1st grade.

Later on their life they meet and they talk about being schoolmates

Peter was not only schoolmate of the ones that started and finished school at the same time as him, but also the ones that entered school just when he was about to leave

That's the same with a generation of people... Biblical or not

Enviado do meu SM-T320 através de Tapatalk

[Tortuga]

This has probably been quoted in many threads but here is the Webster definition of Generation.

 

It looks like 'C' is the application they are using.

 

Full Definition of GENERATION

 

a :  a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor  

 

b :  a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously  

 

c :  a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period 

[pholmes38]

A much more prudent interpretation of matters is simply to return to what was published in the Watchtower in 1927? that 'this generation' represented the Church or the Anointed as a whole which is well supported if one consults the meaning of the Hebrew/Aramaic form of which Jesus spoke in his Olivet discourse.

scholar JW

I havent watched it yet, but i have thought this in the recent past

[Tortuga]

I havent watched it yet, but i have thought this in the recent past

 

If you have had a chance to read the first chapter of the KR that was released in 2014 then you have already heard what Bro Splane is talking about.

[peper-eliot]

"This generation" of [ anointed who saw the beginning of the sign in 1914 and understand it + anointed who didn't saw the start but who have the privilege to cooperate and live with those who saw the start and understood it ]

 

So, if brother Sanderson was anointed in 2000, even if he was baptized in 1975, he couldn't be a part of " this generation "

Edited September 8, 2015 by peper-eliot

[Mykyl]

"This generation" of [ anointed who saw and understand the sign in 1914 + anointed who didn't saw the start but who have the privilege to cooperate and live with those who saw the start and understood it ]

So, if brother Sanderson was anointed in 2000, even if he was baptized in 1975, he couldn't be a part of " this generation "

So from this broadcast we can discern that he was anointed prior to at least 1992 as it was made clear he IS of the generation as mentioned.

Ummm where has the hide feature gone?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Mykyl

[peper-eliot]

Yes, all members of the GB are part of "This generation "

and todays new anointed aren't ...

Edited September 8, 2015 by peper-eliot

[Tortuga]

So from this broadcast we can discern that he was anointed prior to at least 1992 as it was made clear he IS of the generation as mentioned.

 

I should probably pose this question in the Governing Body thread but I wonder if a brother has to be anointed prior to 1992 to be considered to join the GB?

I would guess not since it didn't appear from Bro Splanes comments that they keep track of everyone in group one, so 1992 was just an example based on FWF death...

 

It really doesn't seem to matter if the anointed or GB are part of 'this generation' or not, their reassignment will still be the same..

[William]

Well this certainly cleared up my thinking of who the generation. If I've got this right (and im happy to be corrected):

1 - Whilst "the generation" is made up of anointed ones, the generation is not all 144, 000 individuals.

2 - If Frederick Franz (and just for argument sake) was the last anointed member as part of the first group, then the last anointed member to be included in "the generation" would have had to have been born, dedicated, baptised and most importantly .... be and recognise that they are of the anointed before Frederick Franz death in 1992. True, some of the second part are alive today - the current governing body are part of the anointed. But if they were not anointed before 1992 (assuming Frederick Franz was the last person of the first group) - then they are not part of the generation.

3 - this helps clarifies the scripture even more when it says "This generation will by no means pass away until ....". Notice the word to focus on is "This generation", not "the 144, 000 /the anointed".

Those are my thoughts

[peper-eliot]

@scholar jw : all the anointed couldn't be the generation, because only those who saw the sign starting in 1914 could be called this generation.

Jesus didn't say : "you are the generation" to include all the group of anointed

[Tortuga]

Well this certainly cleared up my thinking of who the generation. If I've got this right (and im happy to be corrected):

 

Sounds right. We had a brief discussion about this in another thread before the broadcast. You might find it interesting.

 

http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/22622-gods-kingdom-rules-book/?p=325125

[peper-eliot]

@Tortuga : I should be more precise : the "discreet and faithful slave" is composed with members of "this generation" who saw and understood the "sign"

As the FDS (mat 24:45)  just appears on 1919 (w13 15/7 p22 §12), we can say that the "modern" GB is composed with few anointed who are part of "this generation"(mat 24:34)

 

Now, even if the sign started on October 1914, the spiritual understanding of the sign wasn't so clear at that time... and the prophecy of Malachi 3:2-4 about the purification of the earthly part of the spiritual temple wasn't finished... (w14 15/11 p30). This period starred in 1914 and ended in 1919.

That's perhaps why brother Russell, who died in October 1916, is not mentioned as a member of "this generation" in the September broadcasting... he died during the purification period, without the clear understanding of the sign.

[Tortuga]

@Tortuga : I should be more precise : the "discreet and faithful slave" is composed with members of "this generation" who saw and understood the "sign"

As the FDS (mat 24:45)  just appears on 1919 (w13 15/7 p22 §12), we can say that the "modern" GB is composed with few anointed who are part of "this generation"(mat 24:34)

 

The FDS is currently composed of members of 'this generation' that are contemporaries of the ones that saw and understood the sign in 1914.

 

Is that what you meant to say?

[peper-eliot]

Yes... thanks for the clarification

[Tortuga]

Now, even if the sign started on October 1914, the spiritual understanding of the sign wasn't so clear at that time... and the prophecy of Malachi 3:2-4 about the purification of the earthly part of the spiritual temple wasn't finished... (w14 15/11 p30). This period starred in 1914 and ended in 1919.

That's perhaps why brother Russell, who died in October 1916, is not mentioned as a member of "this generation" in the September broadcasting... he died during the purification period, without the clear understanding of the sign.

 

Good point. 

[analynandmichael]

Interesting topic indeed.however I also feel like that some of us are reading way too much into it.whatever numbers br Splane has talked about which was rather amazing and motivating we should also remember that our literature emphasizes more and more how close we are to the and.

Words and phrases like, close very close,imminent occurs time and again.and of course and scene of this world is just insane..

My conclusion is that it is impossible that this world will last til many years or decades.

[trottigy]

I don't know if I would go as far as to say "impossible". How about -  I certainly hope not. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by trottigy

[Tortuga]

Interesting topic indeed.however I also feel like that some of us are reading way too much into it.whatever numbers br Splane has talked about which was rather amazing and motivating we should also remember that our literature emphasizes more and more how close we are to the and.

Words and phrases like, close very close,imminent occurs time and again.and of course and scene of this world is just insane..

 

Exactly. We are talking about one leaf of evidence on a huge tree of prophecy.

[Tortuga]

Wow, it doesn't seem like it has been over 5 years since we had this WT.

 

*** w10 4/15 pp. 10-11 par. 14 Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose ***

What does this explanation mean to us? Although we cannot measure the exact length of “this generation,” we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37.

[peper-eliot]

"Impossible" is not a word used by Jehovah... the great possible maker

"impossible" is what mostly people use to say when they heard about the good new of the kingdom, paradise on earth, resurrection of millions...

 

My point of view about the end ? In 6 months ... automatically renewable for successive 6 months terms

and sometimes, I used to say "well, that's one more [lunch/diner/meeting/broadcasting...] less before harmaguedon

Edited September 9, 2015 by peper-eliot

[Dages]

The generation thing has always been crystal clear for me. I don't understand what's the difficulty with this point.

[peper-eliot]

So many clarification since 1927... sorry, but it's not a so prudent position if you consider that, since 1927 Jehovah is given more and more insight to the FDS.

[Qapla]

If you are confused as to the exact understanding of the generation, consider this:

 

• Regardless of just when it started, it is not over - the end has not yet come
• There are more urgent things we need to concentrate on - like preaching
• None of us can always understand everything - Jehovah's knowledge is much deeper that ours
• Even if we never do fully discern when it began, it will end exactly when it is supposed to

 

Perhaps, just exercise faith and move on

[scholar JW]

Brother David

 

If this subject is so clear to you then can you explain to me why the current updated online, June 2015, Insight On The Scriptures, article 'GENERATION' in the very last paragraph does not in any sense discuss or imply any two-stage hypothesis or any notion of overlapping in the context of Jesus discussion of 'this generation' . It simply suggests quite prudently that "the word 'generation' with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence."

 

scholar JW

[trottigy]

It book, generation. (Note the words "contemporary generation " similar to our current understanding.)

“This Generation” of Christ’s Prophecies. When Bible prophecy speaks of “this generation,” it is necessary to consider the context to determine what generation is meant. Jesus Christ, when denouncing the Jewish religious leaders, concluded by saying: “Truly I say to you, All these things will come upon this generation.” History recounts that about 37 years later (in 70 C.E.) that contemporary generation personally experienced the destruction of Jerusalem, as foretold.—Mt 23:36.

Later that same day, Jesus again used practically the same words, saying: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Mt 24:34) In this instance, Jesus was answering a question regarding the desolation of Jerusalem and its temple as well as regarding the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things. So his comment about “this generation” logically had an application down to 70 C.E. However, he was also using the word “generation” with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence.—Mt 24.

.
Edited September 9, 2015 by trottigy